New to Hospital Steward Impression - Haversack question

[MPImes]

Hi, Everyone!

I just recently joined the 3rd Iowa Cavalry Co. D reenactors and I have agreed to take the role of the Hospital Steward. I have been reading everyone's posts and the information has been great! Thank you all!

I just wanted to stop by and introduce myself. I am a US Army Veteran (Medic) and I am switching from doing a female impression to a male impression. I used to do a lot of nursing duties at a local open air museum. Don't worry - I fit the 5 ft. rule way too well I am just excited that I will no longer have to wear a hair piece with my costume...those things hurt!

My given name is Barb - but I will be playing PVT Michael P Imes.

I have a quick question on Haversacks...what is the best way to tar them. I have a plain one that has not been tarred.

THanks!!

MP Imes

[2nd_mi_johnny]

honesty in my experience you can get away with a non tarred one. The union army didn't just buy the tarred ones. They tended to take what they could get especially with a western unit such as Iowa. Hope this is helpful. If you still want to tar it. You can buy latex paint. block your canvas with bees wax and then paint the fabric with black latex paint

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

honesty in my experience you can get away with a non tarred one. The union army didn't just buy the tarred ones. They tended to take what they could get especially with a western unit such as Iowa. Hope this is helpful. If you still want to tar it. You can buy latex paint. block your canvas with bees wax and then paint the fabric with black latex paint

Not wishing to start something, but your information isn't exactly accurate on a couple of accounts. First, the vast majority of Federal haversacks were indeed painted. We know from the sources such as the National Archives and individual state records that there were several million haversacks made and issued from many sources such as government depots and private contractors. We know that were many variations on these haversacks in shape, size, and exterior coatings, but with some exceptions such as Ohio, Connecticutt, Massachucetts, and several early war contracts in other states, the standard painted, single buckle haversack with liner out of cotton drill, linen, or light duck cloth were more prevelant. Painted cloth protected the contents (mostly food) and aided in maintaining longevity in use. From several sources, there were few contracts for unpainted haversacks, and those were primarily early war to cover shortages and mid-war, where the famous blue line duck haversacks of Ohio and Connecticutt, as well as the partial painted Massachucetts haversacks were issued. From my estimates of issuance and perusal of contracts, I'd figure that about 1 in 15 Federal haversacks were unpainted or partially painted. Massachucetts in fact had a surplus of several thousand partially painted haversacks due to them being held from issue since painted haversacks became available from multiple sources. I will also add that should one wish to paint a haversack like what was done during the period, the preferred method was to starch the fabric with a boiled heavy starch to fill in the pores and weaves in the fabric, and then coat the fabric in a paint made from boiled linseed oil, lamp black, and in many cases Japan dryer (which aided in the paint mixture being able to cure or dry). Beeswax is a poor treatment of cloth, as it reacts differently to different temperatures - melting when hot, cracking when cold, and is and was very expensive compared to starch, which does a better job of staying pliable, flexible and fills the pores for better paint adhesion. Wax and paint do not adhere very well together. As another note, black latex isn't period paint, but can be used effectively to replicate the sheen and pliability of period paint when painted in multiple coats with adequate time to dry between coats, but costs much more than making one's own correct period mixture

[Rob Weaver]

In reenacting any time period, the phrases "you can get away with" or "used what they could get" tend to be the entrances to paths that lead away from authenticity. They're like signs that say "Here be monsters" or "abandon hope all ye who enter here." (I'm not makin' fun of ya; just noting a truism.)
Really 3 coats of a latex paint like Rustoleum is about $8 and an hour and a half's effort, spread out over 3 days. I realize it's not the most authentic approach, as Ross noted above. But it is easy, cheap and long-lasting. The haversack will look and act like the originals did, especially under the limited conditions we subject them to.

[2nd_mi_johnny]

While I stand corrected on the bees wax, I never said it was common to have a non painted haversack only that they DID exist particularly in the western theatre of the army. As to the boiled linseed oil vs. latex paint such as Rustoleum I recommend that for the same reasons that Missouri boot and shoe made a conscious decision to step away from The period recipe over 20 years ago. Boiled Linseed oil contains lead, arsenic, beryllium, chromium, cadmium and nickel. These elements are toxins, and carcinogens. What do we keep in our haversacks? Presumably food. Another problem with period paint mixes. Haversacks painted with that paint had a real nasty tendency to you know spontaneously combust. I did use the words you can get away with. I should not have I admit that. On the grounds of safety IMHO it is highly advisable that you use a few coats of a latex based paint.

[hanktrent]

Haversacks painted with that paint had a real nasty tendency to you know spontaneously combust.

Sometimes people think that things painted with linseed oil randomly catch fire at unpredictable moments, but spontaneous combustion occurs only while the oil is still drying, and only if it's in a situation to intensify the heat, such as haversacks that were painted and then tightly bailed while still wet. During the drying process, the oil gives off heat. Once it's dry, it's the same as any other paint, as far as spontaneous combustion.

Boiled Linseed oil contains lead, arsenic, beryllium, chromium, cadmium and nickel.

Here's a data sheet for one random brand of boiled linseed oil. Besides linseed oil of course, it contains only cobalt: http://www.cargill.com/wcm/groups/pu...ed-linseed.pdf

Rustoleum contains liquefied petroleum gas, acetone, talc, mineral spirits, aliphatic hydrocarbon, xylene, n-butyle acetate, ethylbenzene and carbon black (the latter of course would be added to the linseed oil too): http://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/7776830.PDF

Here's a data sheet for a random example of exterior latex paint: https://buyat.ppg.com/ehsdocumentman...hControls=True It contains crystalline silica respirable, titanium dioxide, diatomaceous earth, zinc oxide and ethanediol.

Overall, the example of linseed oil gets a 1 out of 4 rating for health hazards on the HMIS scale ("Irritation or minor reversible injury possible") while Rustoleum and the latex paint get a 2 out of 4 ("Temporary or minor injury may occur.") Needless to say, that's based on using the product, not eating food that may have touched the dried product, and I don't know if any tests have been done on that, to see what chemicals are absorbed by the food in any significant amount. Anyone know of such data?

I'm just saying it's not as simple a choice as it seems. I suspect that many folks use modern paints for the speed and convenience rather than for an objectively assessed increase in safety, but use the safety reason because it sounds better.

Hank Trent
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[2nd_mi_johnny]

Sometimes people think that things painted with linseed oil randomly catch fire at unpredictable moments, but spontaneous combustion occurs only while the oil is still drying, and only if it's in a situation to intensify the heat, such as haversacks that were painted and then tightly bailed while still wet. During the drying process, the oil gives off heat. Once it's dry, it's the same as any other paint, as far as spontaneous combustion.

ah yes that actually lines up quite well with my concern. All the reports I knew of it happening was multiple occasions during the war when warehouses would go up from the Painted haversacks catching fire.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Not to beat a dead horse into a fine powder...

But there is a fundamental difference between modern so-called "Boiled Linseed Oil" and Period BLO. The manufacturing process is radically different between the two. Modern stuff is not really boiled, but has oxygen forced through a chemical additive mix at temperature.

Linseed oil does not dry by evaporation, it dries by polymerization during which the chemical reaction of the molecular structure aligning itself in chains produces its own heat.
In brief and to over generalize a bit... most Period paints consist of a linseed oil base, a powdered pigment for color, and turpentine.
Most modern paints is so-called water based "latex" (regardless whether they are 100% acrylic, latex, mix of the two, or vinyl styrene with synthetic polymers as binders.

IMHO, "paint; falls under one's personal Mental Picture and Psychological classic example lies with iron gun parts versus modern hard steels. Standards. Meaning, yes, to the unaided naked eye, and short of chemical or microscopic testing, one cannot see a difference so the choice of a Period something may be larger in one's mind than in the object being looked at. Or brass instead of bronze (Gun metal). Or acrylic sealers and finishes for leather instead of Period "iron and vinegar' dye sealed with fish oil or beeswax.

Curt

[Irish Dragoon]

"In reenacting any time period, the phrases "you can get away with" or "used what they could get" tend to be the entrances to paths that lead away from authenticity. They're like signs that say "Here be monsters" or "abandon hope all ye who enter here." (I'm not makin' fun of ya; just noting a truism.)"

Ain't THAT the truth!

[Rob Weaver]

I'm hoping that didn't come across as catty, 'cuz I didn't mean it as such. I just use that as an internal check on myself. If I find those phrases swishing around in my head, I keep looking, or re-evaluate my motives. And, yes, if you continue in the same post, I offered a non-period solution.