Fog, damnit all, fog, persistant fog!

I tried every thing from new collodion to adding more acid to a small batch of silver to using more acid in the developer. I did get one good image, but the rest had a fog to some degre. even tried several other silver baths.

I know fumes of any kind will cause problems but I aired the place out too.

Could it be the fact that my potassium iodide and cadmium bromide are over 7 or 8 rears old?

There are no light leaks in the camera, and the heavyest fog seems to be more tward the pour off end, the center of the image has the least.


I do use a little more silver in my silver bath than usual, about 80sp, could that have an effect?

"Experianced" expert advice would be more than welcome.


Thank you.
Kevin Klein



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2011 04:53PM by profkleindorf.

You may want to get together with another photographer to test your systems.....
Two cameras, two darkrooms, two sets of chemistry....mix it up using both darkrooms/cameras/chemistry....Through a series of images you can determine if it's your chemistry or hardware....
Good luck, Claude

Fog can only come from a few sources. Light fog, chemical fog...which is keyed into the temperature.

everything MUST be in harmony.

The mention of "more silver" is a red flag. Why are you doing this?

Back in the day silver concentrations varied....many liked to use more silver for negative baths. Today...it really is more of a 'positive image' world in collodion...but many formula writers never got this message.

Try cutting back your silver concentration in the bath to 2 grams per ounce of distilled water. You need no more than that. 32 oz of silver bath..add 4 drops of glacial acetic acid when mixing.

Now, Harmony. Its a simple word but one that goes way back to the introduction of the process. It MUST be the path one still follows.

Collodion....you mention old iodides and bromides. The possible deterioration of these would be a question John Hurlock would be most qualified to answer...but I can tell you from experience that I used my initial plastic bottle of potassium iodide that I bought from Artcraft for ten years. It DID turn a bit of a violet shade..but it still worked well recalling my last batch of collodion I mixed up.

Developer....Are you adjusting for temperature? Vital in the heat, winding down now since all this stuff really wants to be working at normal room temps about 70 degrees. Heat causes fog, chemical reactions speed up and fog results. Acetic acid in the developer adjusts for temps, not saying my chems are the same as everyones, but I found that when I mixed up 16 oz batches of developer, the acetic acid I added needed to be one half the temps I anticipated..ie, a 50 degree day would be best served with 25 ml of acid, and a 100 degree day could use 50 ml of acid. You can tinker with the developer just by adding a bit more water, see if this has an effect on the fog.

Glass...are you cleaning it good? rottenstone, or glasswax (original formula)? or just a rinse in the dishwasher as many 'expertz' suggest.

Your camera lens has a GREAT effect on fog (or what can look like fog). Make sure when it is capped you do NOT see a ring of light coming in between the brass barrels due to a missing leather shim strip at either end. Also, make SURE your rear element is spotlessly clean of dust and haze. That has a massive, and mostly unrecognized effect, on contrasts and image quality (and can imitate fog).


..............after all of this said, I think you need to cut back your silver to 2 grams to the ounce of water. Mix your developer slightly weaker, say using only 14 grams of ferrous sulfate to 16 oz of water. Do the acetic acid concentrations like I suggested. Make sure your glass is properly cleaned.


Dont Give Up.

Claude has more experience than any of us and his method of troubleshooting is the best advice possible. Substitution of non working chemistry with working chemistry, one facet at a time...that will answer your questions and get you back on track.

One last question..are your chem suppliers the same? Not trying any "euroideas" from the other forum, are you?????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2011 08:19AM by Ray Morgenweck.

Claude and Ray, thanks for the advise.I usualy keep a high silver content for negative as you said, I should probably jus go back to the normal consentration and use intensification.

I did not see any light leaks but will check again. One thing I could probably be kincking my ass with is using Kodak stop bath concentrate for the acetic acid in the developer. Will try the vinegar again, it worked in the past.

Some times though, the plates will come out nice and clear at first but after a few they begin to get the fog. all the problems happen at home.

The chems are from ARTCRAFT, except the collodin from Mavidon.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2011 02:43PM by profkleindorf.

The stop bath will work, just use three time more of it than glacial acetic acid. As to vinegar...I never used it but others (like you) have.

I try not to alter the formulas. Glacial acetic acid has a lot of uses in wet plate and very inexpensive.

Its not indicator stop bath is it?

Whats in it? Is it just acedic acid? 28%?

I tried some type of kodak stop that said it was acedic acid and it didnt work good at all. Im not sure what the problem was but it may have been fog. After looking closely at the bottle it contained something else and wasnt just acedic acid.

I wondered about the strength of stop bath consentrate. Might have found the problem, I gave the camera another good looking over and found no leaks except for the stop slot. I put a stop in place and shined a light on to it and saw light filtering in between the stop and slot. This gave me an idea, went to the dark room and made a number of small plates with out exposing them. About 2/3 of the plate had collodion on it, sensitized and developed. The coated areas came out nice and black except for the plates that where developed for about 45 seconds.

Next time I will place the dark cloth over the top of lens and see if that works.

If this is the problem, all I can say is DUHHHH...!

Hope you have it!

If the lens was factory slotted it can stand in the open light without a stop and no light will hit your plate. The slots run between two baffle plates and light can only travel in a straight line, downward, and inside these slots.


is that rear element clean?

I fuss about this since I learned the HARD way. Id one test shots out my window one time with a customers new camera, and his two lenses. One gave crystal clear images, the other...hazed, fogged, very strange. The rear element was very hazy, dusty...once that was cleaned, the image with that lens was clear also.

Think of it this way, your image, not yet formed, is hitting the back glass and lighting it up to a degree, much like light hitting a translucent sheet of plastic. IT lights up, too....and that happens with a dusty/dirty/hazy rear element. It lowers contrasts and can appear just like fog on a plate.

Here's how it went.

Tightned up the fit of the stop. First exposure on aluminum under exposed, very clear, second exposure some fog tward top of plate that was also preasent in forground area as well, second exposure more fog, as much as the other day.

Another exposure shooting accros the back yard with trees and sky in view, fog in tree area including the lower shade areas but ground and foreground very good.

Next experimet, last exposure, made exposure in shade with glass plate, perfect.

The first exposures had sky in back ground, the last was just of stuff sitting up against the house.

I am still thinking of off loading all my wetplate stuff anyway (have been for the past few years) because I havent been finding any real practical use for it anyway. I think it has run its course.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2011 09:49PM by profkleindorf.

Maybe you need to shade sun from your lens. I use my darkslide. Perhaps stop slot is allowing light leakage.
Don't liquidate your outfit until after a cooling off period to make sure that's what you want to do. I've been frustrated like that too, and often the best thing is to forge ahead and focus on fixing the problem, then put it away and see if the passion percolates again.

A basic question, and one that you havent answered (or been asked) does this fog wipe off under a gentle stream of water using a wet cotton ball?




I havent made images for a few years now and miss the hell out of it. BUT, I dont really have anything to photograph, having left the reenactment road tour. Cant really make any suggestions regarding that but you certainly dont want to get 'licked' by a simple fog problem.\

Since you ARE getting clean images, I think its more a simple technique issue. somethings not in harmony, either you are exposing too little and developing too long, with that strong bath....the silver is 'developing' in the top liquid layer. I think too...you are rushing all this and maybe not draining the plate back into the bath long enough. That keeps more retained silver on the plate, and with your strong concentration (and Ill bet you have tossed in a pinch or two extra of silver nitrate at some point)...you set up that fog situation. This type of fog WILL wipe off with the wet cottonball. Try it. Ray

The fog is in the film, will not wipe off. I am going to do some diferent things and see what happens.

Anyone in your area that you could spend some time with, and substitute working parts of the chemistry? The fog in the image is more complicated than fog on the image...to deal with.

youre bringing light into the picture now, is that rear element clean, is the lens sealed, in that there is no ring of light coming in between the barrels?