Looking for a Bugle

[penn-state-engr]

Hello everyone. I would like your help in locating a period correct Artillery Bugle for my Battery. I have tried some of the repros and they sound horrible. Any help locating one would be greatly appreciated.

[RJSamp]

Well you can buy an AMATI big belled bugle (clairon) in Bb from The Woodwinds and the Brasswinds out of South Bend IN....about $105.

Or Jan-Henrik Berger is wrapping final design/tooling on a Copper Clairon in C with a pigtail crook to Bb.....under $200 and available soon.....

Many of us have WWI era clairons in Bb off of eBay. Period Correct. Bob Pallansch can repair them. They weren't numerous in the US during the ACW but they had enough of them that you can get away with them.

rjsamp@ameritech.net
and join bugle@yahoogroups.com

RJ Samp

[penn-state-engr]

Thank you for the info. I am looking at the Amati ABG201 Bb Bugle .

[Kimmel]

I got mine for 109 at Amati

[toptimlrd]

Jean Baptiste also makes a conical large bell Bb that works well. To defarb it though you will need to have the water key removed and the hole soldered. I bought mine for $99 including a case which I believe the Amati is missing.

[Kimmel]

Originally Posted by toptimlrd

Jean Baptiste also makes a conical large bell Bb that works well. To defarb it though you will need to have the water key removed and the hole soldered. I bought mine for $99 including a case which I believe the Amati is missing.

Yeah... there's no case with the Amati, but mine get's scrathed to heck anyway

[RJSamp]

Originally Posted by toptimlrd

Jean Baptiste also makes a conical large bell Bb that works well. To defarb it though you will need to have the water key removed and the hole soldered. I bought mine for $99 including a case which I believe the Amati is missing.

Would cost too much to get the water key removed, soldered (acutally patched!), and this could change the sound/tuning.

and you don't need a case, even for air transportation in luggage.

I'd wait for Herr Berger to come up with his copper clairon.....or buy a WWI era Bb off of eBay.

[toptimlrd]

Originally Posted by RJSamp

Would cost too much to get the water key removed, soldered (acutally patched!), and this could change the sound/tuning.

and you don't need a case, even for air transportation in luggage.

I'd wait for Herr Berger to come up with his copper clairon.....or buy a WWI era Bb off of eBay.

Actually if one is handy with a soldering iron and uses a proper patch the sound is not diminished and it really doesn't cost too much (the piece of brass I used cost me about $2 at the local instrument repair shop). The nice thing about the case is that you don't end up with a crushed tube from being mishandled in transport or some monkey loading the plane putting that steamer trunk on top of it. Sorry pards I do take care of my instruments that's why I still play the same horn I had in High School and College and it looks about as good today as the day I bought it.

Are the WWI horns the right shape and size? I thought they were closer looking to today's F and G bugles. I also would love a copper clarion, but unfortunately they aren't available right now and I would imagine there will be quite the waiting list. I know I am on a waiting list of about 2 years for a Bb soprano Saxhorn now.

Also, a way to avoid it looking scratched is to remove the laquer, you can always polish out some of the finer scratches that way plus the duller finish gives it more character in my opinion. Nope, it really doesn't change the sound either; many professional horn players have raw brass instruments. For my normal playing I prefer a Silver horn, but that is a personal preference as I seem to find the silver to have a bit darker tone for "normal" playing.

[RJSamp]

"Actually if one is handy with a soldering iron and uses a proper patch the sound is not diminished and it really doesn't cost too much (the piece of brass I used cost me about $2 at the local instrument repair shop). "

That's beyond most musician's and buglers that I know.....for a few dollars more you can get a more period looking horn without the water key....or the need for an unauthentic water key patch.


"The nice thing about the case is that you don't end up with a crushed tube from being mishandled in transport or some monkey loading the plane putting that steamer trunk on top of it. Sorry pards I do take care of my instruments that's why I still play the same horn I had in High School and College and it looks about as good today as the day I bought it."

I just wrap my hornS (I usually bring two or three, including a valved trumpet) up in the uniform and place it in a carryon....no problems with dents scratches monkey baggage handlers xray machines or steamer trunks. and no need for a non period case. I still have my Conn Connstellation from 8th grade.....1968. It's in great shape. No need to insinuate that a bugle needs a case or the rest of us are not taking care of our horns. I'll take it you haven't used your bugle whilst mounted on a horse or used it to parry a sabre blow.


"Are the WWI horns the right shape and size? I thought they were closer looking to today's F and G bugles."

On the contrary. If you had read my earlier message in this thread you'd realize that the WWI clairon's (not British Duty Bugles, M1894 Field Bugles in Bb, nor M1892 F/G Field Trumpets) are of the same basic design from 1845 or even before. And some were used during the American Civil War. Couesnon has been making clairons in Chateau Thierry since about 1830....

F and G 'bugles' are usually trumpets (predominantly cylindrical tubing as opposed to conical)....including the Boy Scout and 'Army' bugles (which are derived from the Pattern of 1892 Field Trumpet in G...the design being changed somewhat in 1929).

"I also would love a copper clarion, but unfortunately they aren't available right now and I would imagine there will be quite the waiting list. "

They will be available shortly....and there isn't a waiting list. Once production starts there will be a ton of them available for under $200 delivered in the US with a pigtail crook to Bb. Robb Stewart out in the SF Valley in CA had quoted us a couple of years to make them in copper...for nearly $1,200 each with a crook. Pass.

"I know I am on a waiting list of about 2 years for a Bb soprano Saxhorn now.
"

Different animal.

[toptimlrd]

"I just wrap my hornS (I usually bring two or three, including a valved trumpet) up in the uniform and place it in a carryon....no problems with dents scratches monkey baggage handlers xray machines or steamer trunks. and no need for a non period case. I still have my Conn Connstellation from 8th grade.....1968. It's in great shape. No need to insinuate that a bugle needs a case or the rest of us are not taking care of our horns. I'll take it you haven't used your bugle whilst mounted on a horse or used it to parry a sabre blow."

No insinuation meant, It's just I do see many bugles on the field that look like they have been run through the mill. And nope I haven't had the pleasure of being on horseback or deflecting a sabre as I am in infantry. Also I prefer being in the ranks during a battle and am still working on my bugler impression (learning all the calls) for garrison type events. Now if someone would loan me a horse so I could join cavalry ........wink. As to the non period case, I don't bring the case out to an event, just use it to transport and store.

Likewise, I bought a three horn gig bag for my son for performances, but he keeps his horns in their hardwood cases for transport and normal storage.

By the way, have you had any problem with the lead pipe on your constellation pitting internally with so many years of use? My King is starting to show some fairly heavy pitting in the lead pipe and that is with very regular cleaning. I'm wondering if it is something I am not doing right and am considering having the lead pipe replaced.

"On the contrary. If you had read my earlier message in this thread you'd realize that the WWI clairon's (not British Duty Bugles, M1894 Field Bugles in Bb, nor M1892 F/G Field Trumpets) are of the same basic design from 1845 or even before. And some were used during the American Civil War. Couesnon has been making clairons in Chateau Thierry since about 1830...."

Sorry, I missed that post and I admit some ignorance to the bugles of WWI, I was thinking about the 1894 and British Field duty models which I am most familiar with from that period.

"They will be available shortly....and there isn't a waiting list. Once production starts there will be a ton of them available for under $200 delivered in the US with a pigtail crook to Bb. Robb Stewart out in the SF Valley in CA had quoted us a couple of years to make them in copper...for nearly $1,200 each with a crook. Pass."

Sounds promising on the price and availability, since I collect as well as play, I may have to try one out and buy if I like the playability (another reason I picked the Jean Baptiste over the Armati was the "feel" to it. The same reason I play a Silver Flair vs. a Strat now, I am more comfortable with the horn.

"I know I am on a waiting list of about 2 years for a Bb soprano Saxhorn now.
"

Different animal."

Agreed, but looking forward to it.

I really didn't mean to start a thread that could cause any disagreement, just wanted to point out that there was another horn on the market that would be suitable. I believe that anyone with an interest knows how few companies actually make a conical Bb bugle and I was surprised to find the Baptiste in a local music store. I was also surprised to learn how affordable the new ones with the correct pigtail will be. Any idea when they may become available?

Thanks for some great information.