Confederate Civilian Flags...

[indguard]

I have just stubmled upon a CDV that I bought from a guy. I think it is sort of rare, but I want your opinion on this thing.

I believe it shows a civilian standing proudly and defiantly next to a hand made First National Flag of the Confederacy. It looks to have 11 stars on a close up. 10 in a circle and one sort of off center.



Now, I've seen all sorts of military flags in photos, but I have hardly ever seen a civilian Confederate flag. What doe you all think?

Unfortunately, there is no back mark on this one to tell us where it was from, but under a jewelers loop, it is obvious that this is a continuous tone photo and not a printed or computer generated one. It is the real deal age wise, at least.

Opinions?



There is a close up of the flag.

Thanks

Warner Todd Huston

[terry sorchy]

Todd,
Could be a early war photo, the flag could have been owned by the studio, or that could be a cofederate veteran that had his picture taken after the war with his old home made flag.
Cheers
Terry Sorchy

[KarinTimour]

Dear Mr. Huston:

Fascinating image -- and a very interesting point. When you're thinking about "civilian" Confederate flags, are you talking about flags meant for display at home, as opposed to presentation to a military unit? My understanding is that many of the flags that were carried by military units were hand made by civilians. Or are you making the distinction between flags that were commissioned by the CSA from contractors as opposed to those made by citizens, whether for military use or display in their businesses or homes?

I've not personally made much of a study of flags, but I have noticed that many of the Confederate flags in the collections of the Museum of the Confederacy, the Confederate Relic Room, the New York State Military Museum vary in terms of number of stars, placement of stars and size of flag. The materials used, the width of stripes and the number of points on stars also can vary -- some flags being made with six pointed stars or double triangles, rathen than five pointed stars.

I know that civlians, especially in occupied areas, took great risks to make flags, bunting and patriotic clothing, and to wear or display them. The recently published diaries of Mrs. Hugh Holms Lee, make mention of making and smuggling flags in occupied Winchester, VA. There are many descriptions of wearing "Confederate aprons" which incorporated the blue field of the Confederate flag into the bib of the apron, and the red/white/red stripes into the skirt of the apron. I believe at one point there was a picture of one of these aprons on the Gettysburg NPS website.

There is a picture on the Antiques Roadshow's website of an early First National knit into the foot of a soldier's stocking. This is a tiny Confederate flag, made by a civilian, albiet one loyal to the "Old Flag." (www.pbs.org then search for "Antiques Roadshow" then search for "Civil War Sock.")

I think the placement of stars on flags was much less uniform in our time period among hand made flags. There was a book published a couple of years ago with various "folk" made US flags, showing a lot of variation in the placement of stars.

Again, I know there are others on this board who have studied flags in much greater detail, and I look forward to their contributions to this thread.

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[indguard]

Karin,

Sorry for not being clear. By "civilian flag" I meant a flag meant to fly back on the home front, one not made for military usage. I wasn't saying flags the military used weren't made by civilians necessarily.

Thanks for the reply, your points were interesting.

WTH

[FloridaConfederate]

Headquarters 12th Va. Cav Camp
Near New Market
April 15th /63


Dear Sister Addie......

......."You said I made a curious request about the flag why cant you get the stuff to make it, if you can I wish you would get it and make it for the one I have got now is all torn up.".......

Thos. M. Garber
Color Sergt 12th Va Cav



Chris Rideout

[Soreback]

Not to mention that is a spot-on likeness of Chawls Heef.

The flag appears to be made as a prop only. The white stripe actually continues behind the canton (you can see the seams), making the obverse a patchwork.The other stripes are wildly out of proportion.

If it was made to be flown or waved, it sure was done in a hurry. By a real hack, too. Looks like my sewing.

RW

[TheQM]

The white stripe actually continues behind the canton (you can see the seams), making the obverse a patchwork.The other stripes are wildly out of proportion.

I believe this flag was designed to be hung vertically, used as bunting, and be seen from one side only. Notice the stick attached to the top of the flag and the fact that it is extremely long and narrow, compared to the usual Confederate Flag.


Just my two cents.