What Is This Rifle?

[crowley_greene]

I almost put this thread in The Whine Cellar, but I thought I would try the Military General Discussion, since many military reenactors are knowledgeable about firearms of all different time periods. Moderator, feel free to move this thread if you feel it doesn't belong in this forum.

This afternoon I came into possession of an old rifle -- my mother asked me to take all the rifles and shotguns that were in the gun cabinet as she prepares to move to a retirement village.

This lever action rifle (see attachment) was among them. At one place it has a stamping on it that identifies it as a "Model 1878." It's old and beat up, but I'm dubious that it really comes from the late 1800's. For one thing it has what appears to be a plastic butt plate. The pine (?) stock is kind of intriguing to me too. It has an octagonal barrel that appears to have the bore of a 30 caliber.

Any ideas on what I picked up today?

Murray Therrell

[bill watson]

Very similar to a Henry or a Winchester, from what I can see from the photo. Nice selection here:

www.ingenting.f2s.com/western/repeters.htm

Not sure that link will work. If you google images of "winchester" you'll find a wealth of data.

Butt plates can change on a weapon over the years. That may be a later addition to an old weapon. You see it a lot in shotguns that have had their factory stocks shortened to accommodate a smaller shooter. The original butt plate might be harder to modify to fit the new footprint than a replacement plate intended to be cut down.

[crowley_greene]

I went and looked at the crusty old plate again, and what looked like an 1878 is really an 1873. That begins to make more sense. I Googled Winchester Model 1873 and found some images that look identical to what I have. But I'm thinking that I may have a Winchester repro of that model that came out some years later (although it's still old).

Where might I be likely to find a S/N on it? I haven't come across it yet.

Murray Therrell

[indguard]

They made the model 1873 for many years. I have one that was manufactured in 1911.

[Frenchie]

Murray,

That there is a Model 1873 Winchester with light-colored wood. I wish I had it. They were made from 1873 to 1919. As the bore is small it's most likely chambered for the .32-20 cartridge, an excellent round in its day. If it's a later manufacture, après le fin de siècle, the plastic buttplate might well be original. Get it to three or four reputable appraisers, if it's rare it might be worth beaucoup d'argent.

[Fenian]

Murray,Frenchie (as usual) is on the money.That is an 1873 Winchester.I sincerely doubt that is a repro as they only began appearing within the last 30 years and have so many European proofmarks,Fabrica Italia stampings etc you'd notice them.The wood may have been "bleached" in an unfortunate refinish job over the years resulting in it's light colors.I have several vintage Winchesters,known that light.Anyway it is a great piece,very collectable and famous for being chambered to handgun calibers like 32-20,38-40 and 44-40 to pair with your Colt Single Action or other makes for same caliber convenience.

[crowley_greene]

I've been closely examining the rifle in the sunlight, and I've found very faint evidence of stamping on the top of the barrel. But the finish is too rough to make out just what is stamped there. I can barely make out "New Haven" and somewhere else something that looks like "1860" (not sure about that last digit, it's awfully faint). I was hoping I could find the S/N stamped there, to do some further research.

What is the best way to clean up an old weapon like this, being careful of the original finish?

Also, much to my dismay, it seems evident that someone came along and sloppily varnished the wood -- to the point that it looks like a few drops ran onto the metal. Is removal of the overvarnish something that shouldn't be attempted at home? I did strip varnish off the stock of my Armisport Springfield when I defarbed it, but that's an entirely different matter.

I thought about taking the rifle to a reputable gun shop and seeing what they could do with it, but I have these fears of them wanting to start replacing parts. The piece is not in any kind of firing order right now, but that's not so important to me if it means devaluing it by replacing original parts with newer ones.

Murray Therrell

[Fenian]

Murray,The motto here is "less is better".Avoid re=blueing,wire-wheeling and anything abrasive.As stated earlier someone has alreadt been at that wood.Having a competent gunsmith taking it down,removing the high gloss and giving it an oiling would be as far as I would go.Over "restored" antique weapons have their value comprimised and the kick is you have to pay to have it done! Bud:

[Frenchie]

Here's a gunsmith I've heard good things about who specializes in restoring old guns: http://www.restoration-gunsmith.com/ Look around the 'Net for discussion forums about collecting old guns.

The thing to keep in mind about doing any work on an antique is like the physician's oath: First, do no harm. It's better to leave it alone rather than destroy its "character" and history.

The problem with good restorers is the same problem with many well-known makers of accurate uniforms; you can grow pretty old waiting and it ain't cheap.

Murray,Frenchie (as usual) is on the money.

Bud, if I send you my wife's email addy, will you please repeat that to her?

[Fenian]

Frenchie,I'd be glad too if you think your wife will listen to me any more than mine does!?! Bud