Fencing Bayonet

[jerryeberg]

Does anyone know a good place to get a reproduction fencing bayonet like the one in the link?
http://www.alliancemartialarts.com/1862a.JPG

[Frenchie]

That's a standard bayonet with a special scabbard that locks onto the shank and has a ball on the end. You're looking for a scabbard, not a bayonet. Sorry, I have no leads.

[WoodenNutmeg]

I recall looking for one sometime ago as well and to the best of my knowledge there is still no reproduction of this item that has been made available.

Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[WestTN_reb]

You could always make a plastron. All you need is a whale bone.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

That's a standard bayonet with a special scabbard that locks onto the shank and has a ball on the end. You're looking for a scabbard, not a bayonet. Sorry, I have no leads.

Frenchie,

What lead to your conclusion that this was a "standard" bayonet with a "special" scabbard?

Paul

[tompritchett]

What lead to your conclusion that this was a "standard" bayonet with a "special" scabbard?

Look closely at the closeup at the bottom of the picture. You will see the clip for locking it into the frog as well as the clip that locks the scabbard onto the bayonet.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Look closely at the closeup at the bottom of the picture. You will see the clip for locking it into the frog as well as the clip that locks the scabbard onto the bayonet.

Tom,

I am aware that the picture shows a clip for the item to be worn on the frog, but I was under the belief that the plastron (which this presumably is), was made especially for training, and was to be used in place of the bayonet.

I failed to see any sort of "clip" for locking the "scabbard" onto the bayonet. [Edit- In looking at the patent for this scabbard...contained in a post further down, a "strap" is evident for the attachment of the scabbard to the bayonet, this does not appear to be a "clip"-P.B.]

Paul

[Longbranch 1]

Sirs,

The confusion may be the result of Bayonet ,Fencing
patented by John Ernst
Aug o5 1862 . patent # 36081

This is a removable bayonet guard composed of an elastic ball fitted to a hard material with a flange to recieve a strap. The guard is attached to the bayonet by means of said strap.

The illustration appears to be of the item below:

Mr Ernst patented a ( Different )Bayonet Fencing Scabbard
( Patent # 37,222) Dec. 23, 1862.
More truly a scabbard.
" Fitting closely around the neck of the bayonet and against the shoulder of the blade was an elongated link or ring, one end ofwhich was attached to a spring secured within the scabbard. To the lower endof the scabbard was secured, by a socket, a ball of India rubber or other elastic material, which constituted a guard for the point of the bayonet."

See Lord's Civil War Collector's Encyclopedia, Vol I

I don't think we will find a repro of these items anytime soon .

Hope to have helped.
Kevin Ellis

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Sirs,

The iilustration is of Bayonet ,Fencing
patented by John Ernst Aug o5 1862 . patent # 36081

This is a removable bayonet guard composed of an elastic ball fitted to a hard material with a flange to recieve a strap. The guard is attached to the bayonet by means of said strap.

Frenchie is , I believe alluding to the item below:

Mr Ernst patented a ( Different )Bayonet Fencing Scabbard
( Patent # 37,222) Dec. 23, 1862.
More truly a scabbard.
" Fitting closely around the neck of the bayonet and against the shoulder of the bladewas an elongated link or ring, one end ofwhich was attached to a spring secured within the scabbard. To the lower endof the scabbard was secured, by a socket, a ball of India rubber or other elastic material, which constituted a guard for the point of the bayonet."

See Lord's Civil War Collector's Encyclopedia, Vol I

I don't think we will find a repro of these items anytime soon .

Hope to have helped.
Kevin Ellis

Kevin,

Thanks for the information. In looking up the second patent you listed (google patents), the sketch clarifies the use of a "spring clip". This Patent # 37,222 is definently a scabbard type attachment. Below you will find the google-patent site for this "Improvement in Bayonet Scabbard and Guards".

http://www.google.com/patents?id=iQM...s_maxy_is=1866

If the first sketch shown is indeed Patent # 36,081 then it too will be a "scabbard-like" attachment as Frenchie mentioned. The Patent for this, "Improvement in Removable Bayonet Guards", can be found through the following link, also using google patents:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=g5BwAAAAEBAJ&dq=36,081

So where does the term and use of a "plastron" come in...and the use of whalebone (under which a few of us had heard)? It may be possible this comes from McClellan's Manual for the Bayonet...will check tonight and try to provide some clarification.

Humbly,

Paul

[tompritchett]

I failed to see any sort of "clip" for locking the "scabbard" onto the bayonet.

Look to the right of the clip for the frog and you will see a semi-triangular clip with its base at the top of the scabbard and the "point" of the clip around the base of the bayonet as it connects to the bayonet socket.