Virigina sorry for slavery

[bizzilizzit]

Slavery started in Virginia about 1619 or so when I believe a Dutch ship docked at Jamestown. Those blacks were indentured servants and later were freed.
It has been almost 400 years since the colonist landed in Jamestown, VA. Roger Brightwell
Virginia expatriot

And THAT is exactly why Virgina apologized - the Jamestown anniversary is coming up and they don't want trouble.
Elizabeth

[flattop32355]

From Dictionary.com:

a·pol·o·gy [uh-pol-uh-jee]
–noun, plural -gies. 1. a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another.

If I'm not the one who did the harm, I cannot, by definition, apologize for it. I can sympathize, even empathize, with those harmed, but I cannot legitimately apologize for it.

I can admit that the wrong done should never have happened, and express regret that it did, indeed, occur. I can work to see that it never happens on my watch, but I cannot apologize for it.

[bob 125th nysvi]

Interestingly enough, I agree with you on the motive part but tend to agree more with Hank on the issuing of the apology. Granted part of me rebels at the idea of having to apologize for the sins of my fathers but the more rational part sees the apology as a final means to put the past behind us once and for all - and all for little cost except for slightly wounded pride. Refusing to apologize just allows the issue to grow and fester, thus increasing the political clout of the advocates within the black/Indian/whatever community. Since, IMHO, the alterior motive is indeed the increasing their own political clout at the expense of healing the wounds of our nation's racist past, defusing the issue by the apology is, in the end, defeating their alterior motive - as well as preventing the re-opening wounds from festering.

if it was going to end there but it isn't.

Since people refuse to learn about slavery in America (like the fact that Africans SOLD the other Africans to the Americans or that the African slave tarde existed for about 2000 years before America was founded and officially for at least another 40 years after the war was over) they can never get past the 'we were wronged, we need somebody to blame and we are owed something'.

The unfortunate implication of apologizing for the deeds of others is that the people making the apology are somehow responsible or directly benefited from the wrong.

Neither of which is provable.

The reality is if they were going to move past it they would have done so already.

By the way, the Cherokee's owned slaves so who gets their apology first? The Cherokees for what we did to them or the African Americans for what the Cherokees did to them?

Or how about this, what about the free black slave owners of pre-war New Orleans society? Do THEIR desendents owe apologies to other African-Americans or are they owed an apology because the Civil War not only denied them their property but also equal rights?

Gets real messy doesn't it?

[Robert A Mosher]

Well, after enough back and forth on this, I decided to go and found out what the Virginia legislature actually voted on:

Begin text, courtesy of the Richmond Democrat:


WHEREAS, slavery has been documented as a worldwide practice since antiquity, dating back to 3500 B.C. in ancient Mesopotamia; and

WHEREAS, during the course of the infamous Atlantic slave trade, millions of Africans became involuntary immigrants to the New World, and the first African slaves in the North American colonies were brought to Jamestown, in 1619; and

WHEREAS, the Atlantic slave trade was a lucrative enterprise, and African slaves, a prized commodity to support the economic base of plantations in the colonies, were traded for tropical products, manufactured goods, sugar, molasses, and other merchandise; and

WHEREAS, some African captives resisted enslavement by fleeing from slave forts on the West African coast and others mutinied aboard slave trading vessels, cast themselves into the Atlantic Ocean, or risked the cruel retaliation of their masters by running away to seek freedom; and

WHEREAS, although the United States outlawed the transatlantic slave trade in 1808, the domestic slave trade in the colonies and illegal importation continued for several decades; and

WHEREAS, slavery, or the "Peculiar Institution," in the United States resembled no other form of involuntary servitude, as Africans were captured and sold at auction as chattel, like inanimate property or animals; and

WHEREAS, to prime Africans for slavery, the ethos of the Africans was shattered, they were brutalized, humiliated, dehumanized, and subjected to the indignity of being stripped of their names and heritage, and families were disassembled as husbands and wives, mothers and daughters, and fathers and sons were sold into slavery apart from one another; and

WHEREAS, a series of complex colonial laws were enacted to relegate the status of Africans and their descendants to slavery, in spite of their loyalty, dedication, and service to the country, including heroic and distinguished service in the Civil War; and

WHEREAS, the system of slavery had become entrenched in American history and the social fabric, and the issue of enslaved Africans had to be addressed as a national issue, contributing to the Civil War from 1861 to 1865 and the passage of the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution, which abolished slavery and involuntary servitude on December 18, 1865; and

WHEREAS, after emancipation from 246 years of slavery, African Americans soon saw the political, social, and economic gains they made during Reconstruction dissipated by virulent and rabid racism, lynchings, disenfranchisement of African-American voters, Black Codes designed to reimpose the subordination of African Americans, and Jim Crow laws that instituted a rigid system of de jure segregation in virtually all areas of life and that lasted until the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act; and

WHEREAS, throughout their existence in America and even in the decades after the Civil Rights Movement, African Americans have found the struggle to overcome the bitter legacy of slavery long and arduous, and for many African Americans the scars left behind are unbearable, haunting their psyches and clouding their vision of the future and of America's many attributes; and

WHEREAS, acknowledgment of the crimes and persecution visited upon other peoples during World War II is embraced lest the world forget, yet the very mention of the broken promise of "40 acres and a mule" to former slaves or of the existence of racism today evokes denial from many quarters of any responsibility for the centuries of legally sanctioned deprivation of African Americans of their endowed rights or for contemporary policies that perpetuate the status quo; and

WHEREAS, in 2003, during a trip to Goree Island, Senegal, a former slave port, President George W. Bush stated, "Slavery is one of the greatest crimes of history, and its legacy still vexes the United States ... Small men took on the powers and airs of tyrants and masters. Years of unpunished brutality and bullying and rape produced a dullness and hardness of conscience. Christian men and women became blind to the clearest commands of their faith and added hypocrisy to injustice. While physical slavery is dead, the legacy is alive. My nation's journey toward justice has not been easy, and it is not over. For racial bigotry fed by slavery did not end with slavery or with segregation ... and many of the issues that still trouble America have roots in the bitter experience of other times ... But however long the journey, our destiny is set: liberty and justice for all"; and

WHEREAS, in the Commonwealth, home to the first African slaves, the vestiges of slavery are ever before African American citizens, from the overt racism of hate groups to the subtle racism encountered when requesting health care, transacting business, buying a home, seeking quality public education and college admission, and enduring pretextual traffic stops and other indignities; and

WHEREAS, European and African nations have apologized for their roles in what history calls the worst holocaust of humankind, the Atlantic Slave Trade, and racial reconciliation is impossible without some acknowledgment of the moral and legal injustices perpetrated upon African Americans; and

WHEREAS, an apology for centuries of brutal dehumanization and injustices cannot erase the past, but confession of the wrongs can speed racial healing and reconciliation and help African American and white citizens confront the ghosts of their collective pasts together; and

WHEREAS, the story of the enslavement of Africans and their descendants, the human carnage, and the dehumanizing atrocities committed during slavery should not be purged from Virginia's history or discounted; moreover, the faith, perseverance, hope, and endless triumphs of African Americans and their significant contributions to the development of this Commonwealth and the nation should be embraced, celebrated, and retold for generations to come; and

WHEREAS, the perpetual pain, distrust, and bitterness of many African Americans could be assuaged and the principles espoused by the Founding Fathers would be affirmed, and great strides toward unifying all Virginians and inspiring the nation to acquiesce might be accomplished, if on the eve of the commemoration of the 400th anniversary of the first permanent English settlement in the New World, the Commonwealth acknowledged and atoned for its pivotal role in the slavery of Africans; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED by the Senate, the House of Delegates concurring, That the General Assembly hereby atone for the involuntary servitude of Africans and call for reconciliation among all Virginians; and, be it

RESOLVED FURTHER, That the Clerk of the Senate transmit a copy of this resolution to the Secretary of the Commonwealth, the Secretary of Education, the Superintendent of Public Instruction, the Executive Director of the State Council of Higher Education, the Chancellor of the Virginia Community College System, and the Executive Director of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Virginia State Chapter, requesting that they further disseminate copies of this resolution to their respective constituents so that they may be apprised of the sense of the General Assembly of Virginia in this matter.

End text.

I guess one would say there are two parts to this text - the extensive presentation of of historical facts and then a stated sense of the legislature that it should 'atone' for these historical facts by approving this statement of "the sense of the General Assembly of Virginia."

So you need to read it and decide whether they got the historical facts right. Then you have to decide whether the General Assembly on behalf of the Commonwealth of Virginia should in fact express regret for the historical role played by the Commonwealth in the establishment and sustainment of slavery and thus attempt "to atone" for that role.

Robert A. Mosher

[toptimlrd]

One thing on the historical side jumps at me and that is the special military order 15 reference of 40 acres and a mule which was in effect for the Savannah Georgia area and was rescinded by President Johnson. Overall this seems to be nothing more than a feel good effort of the Virginia commonwealth that does nothing to end the issue.

[flattop32355]

From Dictionary.com:

a·tone /əˈtoʊn/
–verb (used without object) 1. to make amends or reparation, as for an offense or a crime, or for an offender (usually fol. by for): to atone for one's sins.
2. to make up, as for errors or deficiencies (usually fol. by for): to atone for one's failings.
3. Obsolete. to become reconciled; agree.
–verb (used with object) 4. to make amends for; expiate: He atoned his sins.
5. Obsolete. to bring into unity, harmony, concord, etc.

Where we'll get into the shouting match is whether some insist that reparations are in order, or whether we just bring into harmony/unity.

Get ready for the lawsuits....Someone's gonna try it.

[hanktrent]

Get ready for the lawsuits....Someone's gonna try it.

"Atone" is what jumped out at me too. Acknowledge, reconciliate, apologize, yeah, no problem. But in a roomful of lawyers, nobody said, "Uh, fellows, 'atone' might not be exactly what we mean here, if this is supposed to be a no-cost feel-good statement..."? Wow.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyagern.et

[hanktrent]

The unfortunate implication of apologizing for the deeds of others is that the people making the apology are somehow responsible or directly benefited from the wrong.

There's also the other kind of apology.

Person 1: "My old dog died."
Person 2: "Oh, I'm sorry."

There's no implication that Person 2 killed the dog. It just means, "I'm sorry that something unfortunate happened," and is a general reference to the fact that it's sad the dog died and it's a shame bad things happen in the world. Maybe this whole things bothers me less, because that's how I'm picturing it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[bob 125th nysvi]

There's also the other kind of apology.

Person 1: "My old dog died."
Person 2: "Oh, I'm sorry."

There's no implication that Person 2 killed the dog. It just means, "I'm sorry that something unfortunate happened," and is a general reference to the fact that it's sad the dog died and it's a shame bad things happen in the world. Maybe this whole things bothers me less, because that's how I'm picturing it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

as in there is no reference to why the dog died, either through action or inaction on the part of person 2.

Unfortunately the Virgina Senate seems to be making an apology for the actions/inactions of a previous Virginia Government.

I still think it is just a political stunt.

Geez they wouldn't do that would they?

[bob 125th nysvi]

First- The south can not be held responsible for the begining of the war, at least not solely responsible. The south was provoked into the war by James Buchanaon's do nothing attitued and Lincoln's foot dragging. Lincoln put the south into a position where they would have to either act or give in by not giving up Fort Sumter, He knew that the south would act and by them "fireing the first shot" would give him the right to act against them militarily, Lincoln was going after the moral high ground by backing the Confederacy into a corner. Both the north and south had reached a breaking point in 1861. Secession was not an automatic call for war, the south had been threatening it for years, and they finally acted, you can only push someone so far.

pardon me for being a traditionalist but usually the side that takes the first shot is credited with starting the war. And southern secessionists took great pride in the fact that they fired the first shot.

Your rational for the south firing on Ft. Sumter, the Government forced us to do it, is scaringly similiar to the Japanese rational for attacking Pearl Harbor.

If you hadn't stop selling us war materials we wouldn't have attacked you.

Lincoln made NO offensive actions against the south. He made a move to secure a US government facility from being seized by potential rebels. Furthermore he hadn't suggested any LEGISLATION that would have threatened the south's perculiar institution. In fact he STATED that he did not feel that the Federal Government had the authority to end slavery.

He took action AFTER a US government Facility was first threatened then fired on my secessionist forces.

The south could have NOT taken that step and either fought the abolistionist forces in the Congress or in Court (where they had been doing very well thank you) but NO they had to start shooting.

And in doing so not only started the war but united the north fairly firmly behind Lincoln and the Radicals.

Got no one to blame but them.