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Thread: Springfield 1861 differences?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    5

    Default Springfield 1861 differences?

    Are there any experts out there willing to tell me their preferences regarding these two repro muskets ? Likes, dislikes, fit, finish, etc ? I have an opportunity to purchase a brand new Armisport 1861 Springfield at a very good price still boxed and unfired. I've seen pictures and it is pristine. Should I take the ride ( 4 hours) or go the other way and order a Pedersoli Springfield from Cabela's and pick it up within ten day? Thanks for any and all advice in this matter. Sincere thanks.
    regards
    gh

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Central Missouri
    Posts
    181

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    Both of them have their own issues. The Pedersoli is simply a rebranded Euroarms. The Euroarms can take original parts, the armi sport can't. Neither is really better or worse than the other, so in my opinion get which one is priced better.
    Tim Surprenant
    Holmes' Brigade
    Battalion of the Common Soldiers

    Camp Randall Armory
    Maker of Contractor Lockplates for M1861 Rifle-Muskets and NC State Rifles
    www.camprandallarmory.com

  3. #3

    Default

    Hallo!

    I might would suggest that you go through the myriad archived in the SEARCH feature discussions on "de-farbing" the several M1861's out there as a brief posting may not give you all that you want or need in detail in order to ber able to make an informed decision as an educated consumer of the Best of the Worst.

    For a Quick & Dirty perhaps...

    Within the realm of the overall poor level of reproductions-

    The later Euroarms M1861 is better than the Armi Sport in everything but price. Its overall "dimensions" are closer by degree to the original M1861, on some points very close as its lock will NUG take original or repro-original parts, and with minor work one can use restored original or repro-original parts to replace the cast Italian parts with machined/hardened/tempered ones in some cases.

    Both EA and AS M1861's are over sized, blocky, and can weight almost two pounds more than the originals which gives them a wide clunky look and feel. AS more so than EA. Workmanship, fit, finish, and Quality Control vary gun to gun, but overall are about the same EA to AS. Depending upon the stock wood, EA's can run over half a pound heavier, and AS 1.5 to 2.0ish pounds "over weight."

    Because of the QC issues, often times AS's can be hard to prime or cap because the half-cock and full-cock notch positions on the tumbler are more or less near worker random and the hammer does not go far enough back on "half-cock" to be able to get a cap on or off.

    Pedersoli's basically a Euroarms where they took the same parts but applied better workmanship and less random QC to the making or assembly so one gets a slightly better "built" or better fit and finished version of the same gun.. but add a significantly higher price.

    ALL three need at least entry level (so-called) de-farbing or "de-farb" work NUG removing the modern Italian barrel stampings and sometimes refinishing the stock. All three suffer from modern Italian barrel design issues, particularly in the nipple/cone and bolster areas and as a result of design changes the repro's are more prone to misfires and require more attention to stricter cleaner practices, etc.,

    And last, since introduced roughly thirty years ago or so, EA and AS have tinkered with their product making changes here and over the decades. For example early EA M1861's had atrocious thin stamped metal butt plates, lock plates, and steel sheet barrel bands that were bent and formed to shape and held closed with a weld.

    In general, and IMHO...

    Many lads do not know enough or care to know much about the original firearms that are supposed to be using copies of so Hobby wide there is a wide amount of latitude and acceptance on personal and unit levels. As a result, some lads are more than happy to have, and to use, EA, AS, or Pedersoli reproductions right out of the box. So, it can be a varied discussion as to what is good or bad, or right or wrong, and what works for one lad may not work for the next.

    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    Not a real Civil War reenactor, I only portray one on boards and fora.
    I do not portray a Civil War soldier, I merely interpret one.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    5

    Default 1861 Springfield

    I apologize for my ignorance in this matter. The new and unfired musket I'm purchasing is an Euroarms, not an Armisport or Pedersoli. I do not know why I continued to think and say/type Armisport when in fact it's an Euroarms 1861 Springfield musket. Sorry for my newbie confusions.
    regards
    Steve

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bedford, Virginia
    Posts
    500

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    If you plan on shooting it live then don't get the AS, for blanks then get what your group says is okay, the people you are going to re-enact with will have the standards you need to meet, low or high if they are the people you are going with then they set the bar. If you have personal standards that exceed that then do the search and read the great many pages devoted to this topic. If your group is cool with the cheaper musket then get the cheaper one and upgrade later or hang it over your fireplace when you are done with the hobby, they both look fine hanging over a fireplace.
    Boyd Miles

    I dream of a world where a chicken can cross a road without having its motives called into question.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    137

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    Euroarms and ArmiSport are Ford and Chevy, Pedersoli is the Cadillac.

  7. #7

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    Hallo!

    "Euroarms and ArmiSport are Ford and Chevy, Pedersoli is the Cadillac."

    In some ways, yes. Such as workmanship, fit, and finish.

    But, for the analogy to work 100 % Cadillac would have to use Ford parts as Pedersoli uses Euroarms parts.



    Were it my personal choice, I would buy a Pedersoli but only if I were to be using it out of the box with no "defarb" work. IMHO, the difference(s) in price of a Pedersoli/Euroarms plus the added cost of still needing de-farb work makes it less attractive than a well-done defarbed Euroarms at less money (gun plus defarbing).

    And beyond that, the discussion shifts to hitting the used gun market where a "pre owned" used gun that the first owner has already taken the new gun depreciation/sticker price hit and had already paid for the defarb work makes them better "values" or bigger bang for the same bucks still.

    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    Not a real Civil War reenactor, I only portray one on boards and fora.
    I do not portray a Civil War soldier, I merely interpret one.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
    Hallo!

    "Euroarms and ArmiSport are Ford and Chevy, Pedersoli is the Cadillac."

    In some ways, yes. Such as workmanship, fit, and finish.

    But, for the analogy to work 100 % Cadillac would have to use Ford parts as Pedersoli uses Euroarms parts.



    Were it my personal choice, I would buy a Pedersoli but only if I were to be using it out of the box with no "defarb" work. IMHO, the difference(s) in price of a Pedersoli/Euroarms plus the added cost of still needing de-farb work makes it less attractive than a well-done defarbed Euroarms at less money (gun plus defarbing).

    And beyond that, the discussion shifts to hitting the used gun market where a "pre owned" used gun that the first owner has already taken the new gun depreciation/sticker price hit and had already paid for the defarb work makes them better "values" or bigger bang for the same bucks still.

    Curt
    The ArmiSport is fine for reenactors using blanks, the Pedersoli is a better shooter. Also Pedersoli lock internals are properly hardened, ArmiSport is more prone to breakages. That's the anecdotal information I've been able to glean from a number of sources anyway. I have a Euroarms, an Armisport, and two Pedersolis, for my money Pedersoli is the better musket.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    137

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    Having said that I should add that I am very happy with my ArmiSport 1842 smoothbore; a John Zimmerman defarb is a thing of beauty.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Madison, Virginny
    Posts
    133

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    I've been a gunsmith working on these guns for better then 20 years. I compete in N-SSA live fire competitions and have worked on over a thousand guns easily. The statement of don't get AS for live fire or they are fine for blanks only is like Ford is Better then Chevy. There is nothing in my vast experience working on these guns that shows one is more or less prone then another to parts breakage or failures.
    NEVER EVER SQUAT ON YER SPURS!!

    Pat "PJ" Kelly
    13th Confederate Inf.
    #5795v N-SSA
    WWW.N-SSA.ORG
    Yes,,,,,,,,we shoot real bullets,,,,,,,,,they jus' won't let us shoot yankees anymore.

    MAYNARDS RULE!!
    & starr's DROOL! Hence the rust.

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