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Thread: What type of good but not too expensive reproduction carbines are out there?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    64

    Default What type of good but not too expensive reproduction carbines are out there?

    I am curious what type of fairly well made for a descent price muzzleloading carbines are out there? I have found Pedersoli's Cook and Brother .58-Caliber Carbine and Armisport's CS Richmond carbine. I see these are not too bad prices, especially the Cook and Brother. I was just wanting to know how good these guns are, and what other type of pre and during Civil War era reproduction carbines or very short rifles or muskets are out there.
    ďAn officer who is not a good horseman is not worth for any Military purpose the powder sufficient to shoot him,"-Quartermaster General Thomas Jesup, 1844.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    This is a tough question to answer and to focus those trying to help you, here are a few questions and considerations for you.

    First, what impression are you doing that you need a muzzle-loading carbine?

    What type of weapons did people in the original unit you are portraying carry?

    I am guessing that you are asking for a Confederate cavalry impression and I would say that some of the commercially available muzzle-loading carbines are some fairly rare weapons in terms of overall production numbers. For my CS cavalry impression, I have two weapons for early war, a civilian double barrel shotgun and a model 1841 (Mississippi) Rifle. Of the two, the model 1841 has more usefulness, is a fairly accurate repro, and can be found in the $500-$800 range. There are some good repro shotguns out there but new they are in the one thousand dollar range and used can also be in the $400-$800 range. For eastern CS cavalry, the other weapon is a Sharps carbine (I prefer US since some were captured and it allows me to use if for Federal cavalry as well) but I'll stay away from those in this discussion since they are breech loading. I'm actually on the hunt now for my later war cavalry weapon which is an Enfield rifle. Unfortunately, like the P-53 Enfield, all of the Enfield rifles available need significant work to get close to the original. I'm still researching these now to find the best combination of price and amount of work that needs to be done to de-farb.

    The bottom line to this is that the first step in picking a weapon is seeing what the original unit carried and then look into finding reproductions. For cavalry, a lot of the ordnance returns show multiple weapon types within one unit so that does give you a little leeway in finding a correct weapon. Once you narrow your search down to a few types of weapons, then it is easier to compare features and price to come up with the weapon to purchase.

    Chris

  3. #3

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    Hallo!

    If you do a SEARCH on the Civil War boards for any discussions of the Armi Sport M1861 Springfield or "Richmond particularly "how to" and "why" type discussions.. the same applies to the Richmond Carbine as it is just a reworked rifle-musket and the same issues apply.

    On the other hand, Pedersoli tends to normally, usually, generally (NUG) be a notch up of the best of the worst ladder as they NUG hold to a relatively higher concept of quality control when it comes to fit, wood and metal finishing, and metal hardening and tempering... but then their cost is higher as a result.

    Over all, one's choice is a muzzleloading carbine aka musketoons falls between the P1861 type carbine/musketoons which is more or less just a docked Parker Hale or Italian clone P1853 4th Model rifle-musket.

    And there is the rarer CS J.P. Murray carbine which is essentially a docked CS clone of the M1841 Rifle.

    Enfield short arms such as the rifle and the carbine also fall under the same "de-farb" discussions as does the rifle-musket largely because the RM was based on P1853 4th Model RM primarily not used in the Civil War, and Parker Hale and the later the Italians basically just shortened it which creates other problems when compared to the originals.

    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    Not a real Civil War reenactor, I only portray one on boards and fora.
    I do not portray a Civil War soldier, I merely interpret one.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2013
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    Chris: I portray a Confederate Native American unit and pretty much anything goes. But, you are absolutely right about research, and I would like to eventually base an outfit off of the 6th Kansas Cavalry. Which my research shows these blue cavalrymen would have carried Sharps, Army revolvers (dang author, who was a 6th Kansas himself, did not specify Colt or Remington), and sabers. When I get a budget to actually purchase items and want a Sharps I will probably message you on what is a good brand. But, I also have more up my sleeve with a muzzle-loading carbine so more to come.

    Curt: Always appreciate any information you send my way. Though having trouble finding reviews on the Armisport Richmond. But, anyways, I found Perdersoli's Cook and Brother .58-Caliber Carbine cheaper, and as you say they are supposed to be good quality. Of course thanks for the reminder that sometimes things do slip through.

    For now, I am generally portraying a Choctaw in the field, but also am working on an 1830s to perhaps early 1850s Dragoon impression. For the former, anything from shotguns to a Hall carbine goes. The Choctaw and Chickasaw Brigade carried a ton of shotguns, and also rifles, with very few carbines (perhaps only 4 and those were Halls). Now, I also would like to portray Union cavalry in the West, but I already know what unit I would do and actually know they carried Sharps carbines, army revolvers, and sabers. But, the Sharps is for a much later purchase, unless I change my mind and decide to flip what I want.

    Now, I know this is a Civil War forum, but I am researching guns which I can use for the Dragoon era, though it will probably end up being used mostly for my Indian Territory Choctaw/Confederate cavalry look. I have done quite a bit of research on the Second Dragoons (a 160 page thesis to be exact) and know a Civil War era carbine does not look like a Hall Carbine or the U.S. Model 47 smoothbore musketoon. But there are really no reproductions of these items and I want something I can put powder down for demonstrations or battle reenacting. Which, an original or reproduction Hall I would not fire due to the soldier's problem of gas leaking on him, LOL! Well, guess it was not funny for them. Anyways, I am wanting to try and get a list of descent reproduction carbines for Civil War and check prices and see what might sort of match the 47 Musketoon. Now, I will take a list of all carbines, and then do the whittling down myself. Or, if anybody knows of reproduction British carbines that were carried during and pre-Civil War, that would be good. For example, the 56 Enfield Carbine with the swivel ramrod looks kinda sorta maybe similar to the 47 Musketoon. Though in 1851 the 47 Musketoon's ramrod had a chain attached to it instead of the swivel. While I am more interested with the early 1840s when the 47 was not yet in use, again Halls are not cheap, original, or dangerous to fire.

    Now, I know that the managers of the site have to understandably lock posts when it comes to India made items because of the debating, and so while there are 47 Musketoons and 56 Enfields made in India, I am going to go ahead and say that I am wanting a list of carbines made elsewhere. So, no arguing or debating on this thread. If you want to discuss India made carbines, please just message me.
    ďAn officer who is not a good horseman is not worth for any Military purpose the powder sufficient to shoot him,"-Quartermaster General Thomas Jesup, 1844.

  5. #5

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    Hallo!

    Ordnance requisitions for 1863 for the 6th Kansas Cavalry list Colt Navy revolvers.

    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    Not a real Civil War reenactor, I only portray one on boards and fora.
    I do not portray a Civil War soldier, I merely interpret one.

  6. #6
    ndn boy Guest

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    mr reed, have a navy if u are interested. i am in oklahoma-indian territory. did we happen to meet at honey springs? were u with the 1st choctaw-chickasaws?

  7. #7
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    Jan 2013
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    Curt, much appreciated about the Navies. ndn, don't yet have money to purchase weapons. But, yep, I was at Honey Springs. The group I am actually part of is very small, so I did fall in with the unit portraying the 1st Choctaw-Chickasaw Mounted Rifles.
    ďAn officer who is not a good horseman is not worth for any Military purpose the powder sufficient to shoot him,"-Quartermaster General Thomas Jesup, 1844.

  8. #8
    ndn boy Guest

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    reed,fought with the choctaw chickasaws in sundays battle. e-mail me sometime and maybe we can compare notes on somethings! also do a 1832 fort gibson washington irving thing which were the first rangers! i guess right before dragoons. planetearthcs29@yahoo.com

  9. #9
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    Jan 2013
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    Aw, yes the Mounted Rangers. The government thought they would be cheaper to fund then a regular mounted unit. Turned out, even though each ranger supplied his own equipment and horse, he got paid so well that a mounted unit was indeed cheaper. Not sure, but a ranger's pay might have been a dollar a day, and if so then he would have made thirty dollars a month or so compared to the future dragoon who got maybe half that pay.
    ďAn officer who is not a good horseman is not worth for any Military purpose the powder sufficient to shoot him,"-Quartermaster General Thomas Jesup, 1844.

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