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Thread: Lorenz.. 2 or 3 band ?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griebz View Post
    Thank you for all the replies.. So I guess it's safe to say this is to be considered a 3 band and can be used in front and rear ranks.

    Peter Griebel
    Generically speaking, yes, but its always best to One: research what the unit you are portraying actually had, and Two: check into what is allowed/desired by the organization you are involved with.
    Ross L. Lamoreaux
    Tampa Bay History Center
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  2. #12
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    And Bernie, if you can find a record of the Lorenz' being rebored to .58 I'm all ears....the Iron Brigade Lorenz' in the 2nd and 7th Wisconsin were rebored to .577, for example.
    RJ Samp
    Horniste! Blas das Signal zum Angriffe!
    "But in the end, it's the history, stupid. If you can't document it, forget about it. And no amount of 'tomfoolery' can explain away conduct that in the end makes history (and living historians) look stupid and wrong. "

  3. #13
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    Bill Edwards gives a list of borings: .54 (what they were made as), .55, .57, .577, .58, and .59.
    Boyd Miles

    I dream of a world where a chicken can cross a road without having its motives called into question.

  4. #14
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    Thanks Boyd!!!
    RJ Samp
    Horniste! Blas das Signal zum Angriffe!
    "But in the end, it's the history, stupid. If you can't document it, forget about it. And no amount of 'tomfoolery' can explain away conduct that in the end makes history (and living historians) look stupid and wrong. "

  5. #15
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    Depends if you mean the M-1854 rifles purchased 'used' from the Royal Armory at Vienna, which were 13.9 mm (roughly .55) or those newly made on contract
    commercially by one of several dozen Austrian gun-makers, which could be any bore size the buyer specified. The Austrian Officer's manual for the Lorenz
    (Osterrichische Infanterie - Feurgewehr, Wien, 1857) was never translated from German to English during the Civil War-era, but if so
    many of the misunderstandings concerning the Austrian Rifle would have been clarified. Curt mentioned the bullet, which was solid based unlike
    a minie ball, or Mississippi Rifle ammunition which were often issued for it. Metric bore sizes, block and ladder type sights set to the Austrian
    schritt, rather than the standard "yard" all contributed to a lack of understanding of this weapon and its capabilities...

    It appears this question has been answered as to whether the current made in India .62 smoothbore reproduction of the famous Austrian rifle,
    (which bears little resemblance to the original) is considered a two band or three band reenactor musket. The rest has been debated at length elsewhere.
    Last edited by Craig L Barry; 02-12-2013 at 12:41 AM.
    Craig L Barry

    Author: The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy

  6. #16
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    Craig, Specifically was referring to reBored .54 from Austria.....the Iron Brigade had two Lorenz' rifle regiments and they rebored to .577. Not ordered from Vienna in a non-.54 bore.
    RJ Samp
    Horniste! Blas das Signal zum Angriffe!
    "But in the end, it's the history, stupid. If you can't document it, forget about it. And no amount of 'tomfoolery' can explain away conduct that in the end makes history (and living historians) look stupid and wrong. "

  7. #17
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    Yes, some were re-bored. The contractor produced M-54s with later war dates (1)863, etc were made in whatever bore size was ordered.
    There was a fair amount of variation. As you can imagine, getting the correct ammunition for an Austrian rifle was a hit or miss proposition.
    The Lorenz rifling system was based on Austrian artillery designs. Josef Lorenz was an artilleryman, not a gun-maker.

    Anyway, the India-made Lorenz reproduction is a piece of garbage. Get an Enfield or a US 1842.
    Craig L Barry

    Author: The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig L Barry View Post
    Anyway, the India-made Lorenz reproduction is a piece of garbage. Get an Enfield or a US 1842.
    On the other side of the coin.

    Springfield and Harpers Ferry produced about 275,00 M-1842's
    The Federal Government purchased 428,000 Enfield Rifle-Muskets
    The Federal Government produced and/or purchased 1,473,000 M-1861 & M-1863 Rifle-Muskets.

    If I could have only one shooting iron, guess which one I'd pick?
    Bill Rodman, If you need a really bad example.
    King of Prussia, PA
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  9. #19
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    The Enfield because it's more accurate than the Springfield? Or are you talking about being more generic in reenacting?
    RJ Samp
    Horniste! Blas das Signal zum Angriffe!
    "But in the end, it's the history, stupid. If you can't document it, forget about it. And no amount of 'tomfoolery' can explain away conduct that in the end makes history (and living historians) look stupid and wrong. "

  10. #20
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    History should be the guide, carry what the unit carried based on documentation. An example the 55th Ohio was trained with Lorenz Rifles but left them behind. In (West) Virginia they were issued Enfield rifled-muskets which they carried until they reenlisted in Chattanooga. After returning from furlough they were issued M- 1861 Springfields. It was documented that one soldier picked up a Richmond musket, because the teasing of carrying a "traitor rifle", and yes he accidentally shot the Colonel's horse coming off picket duty in Tennessee.
    So in summery, knowing who, what, and when should tell you what to carry. The NCOs of you unit should be willing to help you.
    Andrew Grim
    Monte Mounted Rifles, Monte Boys
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