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Thread: flag ties

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    6

    Default flag ties

    Hello all,
    Just to start off I'm not new here, just been real busy.lol.
    My question, I'm am putting ties on a Confederate infantry flag I've been working on,
    Can someone tell me the proper position, for the Ties,which side are they sewn?
    or are they sewn inside the outer lip of The border? I can't seem to find any good reference photos.

    Thanks
    Kevin Gibson

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill, FL
    Posts
    3,952

    Default

    Depends upon the flag you're trying to replicate - they were done in several ways. Of originals I've personally viewed, I've seen 3, 5, and 7 ties on the hoist being sewn to the front side, the back side, and one that had them folded over and sewn so that they were on both sides.
    Ross L. Lamoreaux
    Tampa Bay History Center
    www.tampabayhistorycenter.org
    On Facebook at: Tampa Bay History Center Living History Programs

    "The simplest things, done well, can carry a huge impact" - Karin Timour, 2012

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Central Va
    Posts
    254

    Default

    As Ross stated much depends on which particular patterned flag your referencing.
    Most of the RD issued ANV flags had three eyelets hand sewn into the border on the hoist edge, which the separate ties would be run through, and then tied to the staff.
    Lieut Frederick Sineth
    14th Virginia Infantry Regt Co.I
    - 106th Penna Vol Co.F

    - Pegrams Va Artillery
    - 150th Sailors Creek

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Default

    its 51x51 battle flag cotton. These had sewn eyelets?

    thanks
    kevin

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill, FL
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kevingibson View Post
    its 51x51 battle flag cotton. These had sewn eyelets?

    thanks
    kevin
    OK, lets try this again. It depends upon the actual flag you're trying to replicate. What unit? What year? Who made and issued it? Lacking any of that, if you're replicating a 51 x 51, it is probably a depot issued flag for a unit in the Army of Northern Virginia (although there are several flags of those dimensions in the AoT as well, just less than ANV). If you're making a generic flag utilizing traits of actual flags, you can handsew 3, 5, or 7 grommets along the hoist (the side connected to the pole) and thread ties through, or you can directly sew 3, 5, or 7 ties directly to the hoist without grommets. Both of these are found in battle flags of that size. It is always best in my opinion to go by an actual flag, as there are plenty of them still in existance in state archives and the Museum of the Confederacy. As an aside, most 51 x 51 battle flags were made of wool bunting or silk (maybe 25% by some estimates were made of cotton).
    Ross L. Lamoreaux
    Tampa Bay History Center
    www.tampabayhistorycenter.org
    On Facebook at: Tampa Bay History Center Living History Programs

    "The simplest things, done well, can carry a huge impact" - Karin Timour, 2012

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Sorry Ross,
    I'm a bit dense, and tired. Lol, it is a copy of the 7th va flag generic mostly.
    I've already built my flag staff. Purely decorative.

    Kevin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Sorry Ross,
    It's a rough copy of the 7th va battle flag.
    Purely decorative.

    Thanks
    kevin

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Central Va
    Posts
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    Default

    As previously stated much depends on what exactly your making. A "generic" battle flag for home display or are you seeking to construct something a bit more authentic for field use?

    The primary supplier to the ANV was the Richmond Depot. During the war there were Nine different patterns of the Battle Flag issued from the RD. Each had slightly different pattern charactoristics, sizes, and materials used. First was of silk, a second small issue of cotton (Mostly issued to Hoods Texas Brigade), the remaining seven issues (Spring 1862 - April 1865) were all made of wool bunting. 51x51 was the regulation given size for an Infantry flag, however most issued were slightly smaller, usually averaging around 44x44 or so finished to save material waste. These all had the same basic visual design, but differed in field size, cross size width, star size, star spacing, star orientiation, border material, etc.

    If you have something that might have come from the Staunton Depot.. Charleston Depot.. Atlanta, they will be charactoristicly different than those originating out of Richmond. Knowing what unit, time frame/date and theater desired would be most helpful.
    Lieut Frederick Sineth
    14th Virginia Infantry Regt Co.I
    - 106th Penna Vol Co.F

    - Pegrams Va Artillery
    - 150th Sailors Creek

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Finally found a photo of a flag with the whipped eyelets..
    The purpose if this is for a display I've been working on,
    By next spring if my aunt,uncle stop screwing around i will
    Be Taking over ownership of my great great grandfather James
    Kempers, sword and pistol. The flag, and staff, will be part
    Of the display.

    Thanks
    Kevin Gibson.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Central Va
    Posts
    254

    Default

    Kevin
    I assume you would most likely desire the flag the 7th Va was carrying/lost at Gettysburg?
    If that be the case it would be what historians designate as a RD/ANV 3rd Bunting issue, which was usually found approx 44in square. However the actual flag of the 7th Va is a bit askew in size than is normally found with these. The 7th Va flag is 49in on the hoist, 45in on the fly. Yes it has three sewn eyelets for attaching a tie to the staff.

    These were issued to all of Picketts Division in May-June 1863, of what I refer to as the "Pickett Style". They all had the unit identification painted in white on the obverse side in the hoist (7th) and fly (Va Inf'y) quadrants. Not all of Picketts Division regiments present were using their new flags at Gettysburg, and not all of them present were captured. The 7th Va however did lose their flag to the 82nd NY. This original flag survives and is in the collection in the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond Va. (War Dept # 36)
    Lieut Frederick Sineth
    14th Virginia Infantry Regt Co.I
    - 106th Penna Vol Co.F

    - Pegrams Va Artillery
    - 150th Sailors Creek

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