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Thread: Uniform Trousers

  1. #1
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    Cool Uniform Trousers

    Here is an interesting question. Would a surgeon ever wear kersey blue trousers with the dark blue officer's piping in place of the dark blue w/ gold as per regs? I have looked at a number of period photos and I have yet to see a surgeon wearing the light blue trousers?

    Thanks,
    John Ferrannini
    Asst Surgeon
    67th NYSV

  2. #2
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    There are a few period pics out there that show surgeons in a several different of trouser types. I have seen dark blue w/ gold and plain dark blue. These make up the vast majority of trousers seen. I have seen about half a dozen pics of sky blue trousers and all are plain except 1 pair that appeared to have the Confederate regulation braid on them. Most of the sky blue pics were later ('63 on) war. As the war progressed you started seeing plain trousers, dark and sky blue, sack coats and shell jackets as function overcame form in the field.
    your obedient servant,
    Rick Etter
    Surgeon, 2nd Brigade
    Southern Division
    SOCWS

    "not really a surgeon, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express"

  3. #3
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    John do the hainsworth pants not fit? 1861 and revised 63 regs call for staff officers that would include surgeons to wear dark blue with a gold welt line officers wear sky blue.
    David Meister

    Surgeon C.S.A.

    1st Assistant Surgeon 108th Regt. Ills. Vols.

  4. #4
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    They were actually several inches too long, beautiful fabric. The blue does not match my frock or sack coat.

    John Ferrannini
    Asst Surgeon
    67th NYSV

  5. #5
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    Surgeons, like any other officer, were required to purchase their own uniforms. And yes, there were cases where a Surgeon would draw issued uniform items from the Quartermaster. Regulations called for a single-breasted frock for Assistant Surgeons, double-breasted for Surgeons ... dark blue trousers with the 1/8" gold piping down the outer seam of the trousers. In my impression, I wear a double-breasted shell jacket, and kersey blue trousers.

    General Orders 108, issued December 16, 1861 stated the following:
    "The Secretary of War directs that the following change be made in the uniform trowsers of regimental officers and enlisted men. The cloth to be sky blue mixture. The welt of officers and the stripes for non-commissioned officers of infantry to be of dark blue."

    Take into consideration that Regimental Surgeons of state units carried state commissions (this is not including U.S. Volunteers, nor U.S. Regulars ... which were commissioned by the President) ... hence, making them "regimental officers". I believe this would ultimately be up to the Regiment's commanding officer.


    Here are a couple of pics:


    Surgeons of 3rd Division, 9th Army Corps, in front of Petersburg, Virginia, August 1864


    From Braceface.com, no title given


    Petersburg, Va. Three surgeons of 1st Division, 9th Corps
    I Remain, Your Obedient Servant,
    Jimmy "Doc" Nelson
    Moderator (well, sometimes . . hehehe )
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    Daylight Lodge # 760 F&AM
    Honorable Order of Kentucky Colonels


    In honor of my 3rd Great Grandfather: "John Daniel Nelson", Surgeon, 4th Georgia Infantry, CSA


  6. #6
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    Jimmy,

    Did you notice something in the first photo? None of the surgeons have the "MS" in their shoulder straps. In a previous post about straps, I recall someone saying that surgeons wore the plain staff straps and the "MS" was something extra.

    YHS,
    John Ferrannini
    Asst Surgeon
    67th NYSV

  7. #7
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    Yep! My first kit, I used the "MS" in the center of the shoulder straps. My current kit has the staff shoulder straps (no "MS"). The "MS" straps, like everything else, were Surgeon's choice. As a couple of us used to say ... they were for those that wished to "pimp out" their uniform. Choosing either is fine.
    I Remain, Your Obedient Servant,
    Jimmy "Doc" Nelson
    Moderator (well, sometimes . . hehehe )
    ** We have Rules here! **

    Daylight Lodge # 760 F&AM
    Honorable Order of Kentucky Colonels


    In honor of my 3rd Great Grandfather: "John Daniel Nelson", Surgeon, 4th Georgia Infantry, CSA


  8. #8
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    So, as an Asst Surgeon, I could break the "norm" and go with Staff straps and a Staff Officer's pattern sword. Sometimes breaking the "norm" is a good thing.

    John Ferrannini
    Asst Surgeon
    67th NYSV

  9. #9
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    Actually, the "norm" would be the plain staff straps (if we were 150 years ago ... the mass number of "MS" straps you see today is because they are over-represented in our hobby). As for the sword ... that's your choice. I will eventually get the MS sword. But, it's like the last thing on my list, LOL!!!
    I Remain, Your Obedient Servant,
    Jimmy "Doc" Nelson
    Moderator (well, sometimes . . hehehe )
    ** We have Rules here! **

    Daylight Lodge # 760 F&AM
    Honorable Order of Kentucky Colonels


    In honor of my 3rd Great Grandfather: "John Daniel Nelson", Surgeon, 4th Georgia Infantry, CSA


  10. #10
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    In Wayne Youngblood and Ray Bonds book, "Mathew B. Brady's Civil War"; which is a colection of Mathew Brady's work from the war. On Page 96, it shows a picture of Dr Anson Hurd of the 14th Indiana Volunteer Infantry, he is treating wounded Confederates after the Battle of Antietam. The make shift hospital is set up Smith's barn near Keedysville, MD.

    The good Doctor is wearing a Junior officers frock, with standard staff officer straps, a military style vest, a civilian hat,
    a green sash, worn kind of like a loose fitting scarf, and lastly a pair of sky blue trousers, or at least they look like regular issue trousers to me.
    Pretty cool to be seen as early as sept of 62.

    Hope this helps starts some debate about it!
    Ryan.

    P.S. Sorry but my scanner is having issues or I would have thrown the picture up.
    Ryan Gray
    Army of the Ohio
    25th OVI
    49th OVI
    8th OVI
    121st OVI

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