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Thread: what kind of sidearms were popular with Civilians? iam building a outfit

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
    IMHO, "reenacting" can sometimes lead to just the opposite- where the lack or absence of the threat of Real Wounding or Real Death can lead reenacted soldiers as well as civillians to "behave" or "react" differently to life and limb threatening situations and engage in theatrical risk-taking and John Wayne/Rambo type movie heroicsl
    I've always thought that the simple solution is to make consequences permanent for the duration of an event. If a person is wounded, they need to portray that through the end of the event. If they're killed, they leave.

    The latter only works, though, if there's a fair chance for everyone to avoid death. Otherwise it seems unfair to have a certain percentage of reenactors get only a portion of an event, if they're the unlucky percentage that would be killed in a battle.

    Hank Trent
    hanktrent@gmail.com

  2. #22

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    Hallo!

    "Otherwise it seems unfair to have a certain percentage of reenactors get only a portion of an event, if they're the unlucky percentage that would be killed in a battle."


    I have experienced that dealt with in various ways, in CW as well as other periods.

    One time those that had drawn "death cards" or chits were recycled away from their units and ressembled (no pun intended) into another unit elsewhere on the field or at the event so that they could still play but not be with their original pards.

    The other from was for the wounded and dead to be recylced by having the wounded being out for a period of time and then resurrected back by the touch of a unit member unless the event was set up with a hospital impression (for the remainder of the "day"). For the dead, they had to retire from the field and turn in their cards/chits (getting new ones) somewhere in the rear.

    Yeah, it is somewhat hokey and initially a little hard to logistically set up. Plus it gives lads a "look into the future" as to what the Fate Card has in store. But, others counter that NUG (normally, unusally, generally) it is perhaps Real World as well as Pretend World magical thinking that we are invulnerable and immortal.

    And then there are the likes and dislikes of the whole "contrived," artificial, mechanical, thing that some lads like and others equally hate or despise... To which some counter by saying we do not use live ammunition so it is all contrived to some degree...



    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    Not a real Civil War reenactor, I only portray one on boards and fora.
    I do not portray a Civil War soldier, I merely interpret one.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
    One time those that had drawn "death cards" or chits were recycled away from their units and ressembled (no pun intended) into another unit elsewhere on the field or at the event so that they could still play but not be with their original pards.

    The other from was for the wounded and dead to be recylced by having the wounded being out for a period of time and then resurrected back
    Yes, those are the standard solutions. But I don't think they'd work to discourage reenactors from unrealistically risking "death." In fact, the whole motivation behind them is to make it seem like some reenactors have died, in a situation where someone must portray that, while still letting them have a reasonably good experience too.

    If everyone should be able to live through the historic situation, then making the consequences as bad as possible is one way to motivate reenactors not to take unrealistic risks.

    Actually, I don't think one would even need to include "death." In theory, portraying an injured person shouldn't be a bad thing, but in practice, I expect that having to lie helplessly dependent on others for 12 hours, realistically portraying a seriously wounded person, would be such a deterrent, that those who enjoy the hobby because they can play at being bullies or tough guys, wouldn't attend such an event in the first place, or would attend but wind up refusing to do it if they made the wrong decision. It would only work if everyone treated it fairly.

    Hank Trent
    hanktrent@gmail.com

  4. #24
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanktrent View Post
    That brings up a good question, which I've not found a solution to, in reenacting.

    It seems that whenever one needs to actually use a civilian weapon, it's in close quarters--inside a house, or a face-to-face conversation--and that's difficult to accomplish safely. A lot of the time, I just avoid it, because I can't figure how to do it, but then I might as well not have had the weapon in the first place.

    Pre-scripted scenarios are simple, but I'm talking about the more common spontaneous things. Rules of engagement or hobby consensus don't usually cover civilian-on-civilian or civilian-on-military combat.

    It's worse with knives. I can think of two men who are "alive" today because I couldn't figure out how to slit their throats safely, despite having the opportunity. Rubber knives are a solution for defense, but useless in 90 percent of the situations one needs a knife.

    With pistols, the simple answer is to leave it unloaded, but a reenactor who suddenly feels a pistol barrel within inches of his head may (rightfully) want to discover if he's in imminent danger of a powder burn, losing his hearing or worse, and pausing for reassurance sorta ruins the moment. If he does trust it's unloaded and proceeds with the period situation, and you need to fire in 186x, saying "bang" just doesn't seem to have the right nuance.

    I recall a long event-stopping argument one time, when a reenactor insisted that I "missed" because I was aiming the gun in the air rather than directly at a man's head when I fired from three feet away. Uh, why do you think that was.

    So, as a practical matter, how do reenactors safely and practically use civilian weapons for personal defense at events?

    Hank Trent
    hanktrent@gmail.com
    The answer is simple, if it is not scripted, you do not use them, or draw them. Back in the day we had a few theatre knifes with fake blades, and rubber bayonets, but that was also scripted. This year along because of unscripted jackassery, I have seen or had some I know see: one ear damaged, one head wound, two powder burns, and a fellow stabbed in the arm. All I can say is I was happy not be be any part of that. 3 out of 5 were from one group.

    Now, I believe if the guidelines are clearly enforced at a good event, you can protray the armed civilian at close quarters with a small pistol, but capping only. But that is not my call.

  5. #25

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    Hallo!

    "Now, I believe if the guidelines are clearly enforced at a good event, you can protray the armed civilian at close quarters with a small pistol, but capping only."


    Pistols can be a part of an impression, as some refer to as 'jewelry.' Meaning, it is an accessory or a prop to be seen- but not fired.

    Much like the Brigade of the American Revolution (BAR) had done with pistols- one had to have wooden "flints" in them.

    Curt
    Who remembers the daze of NPS rules where we had to have wooden flints in our muskets, and could not demonstrate "death" or "wounding" in the form of battles Mess
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    Not a real Civil War reenactor, I only portray one on boards and fora.
    I do not portray a Civil War soldier, I merely interpret one.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaster_M View Post
    Iam currently building a outfit based on that of a male southerner who lived in a city that was ransacked by the union army but is now a refugee (a wounded veteran of a earlier war) and was wondering what sort of sidearm would be appropriate.
    NONE !!

    At least until the question of this person, is (a), fleeing before, or (b) traveling under the auspices of permissions given by Union authorities.
    Time and Place, Apples and Oranges.
    Economic distinctions enter into the equation as well.

    Regards.
    Kevin Ellis,
    26th NC

  7. #27

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    Even firing a small pistol with the cap only isn't as safe as it sounds like it should be. I think if you're under 10-15 yards, you're into the "bang" territory. There's just no way to discharge a pistol in someone's direction at close range safely. If you're in an unscripted tactical, that may simply have to be an understood given. I use my revolver regularly when I do Eastern Front tacticals and often have to simply say "bang" because of the distance.
    I may actually be getting old, but the idea of taking a hit early in an engagement, then being forced to sit the rest out as a casualty lying in a tent is starting to look pretty good. OR maybe I just had a bad day yesterday and need a rest...
    Rob Weaver
    Pine River Boys, Co I, 7th Wisconsin
    "We're... Christians, what read the Bible and foller what it says about lovin' your enemies and carin' for them what despitefully use you -- that is, after you've downed 'em good and hard."
    -Si Klegg and His Pard Shorty

  8. #28

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    Hallo!

    "I may actually be getting old, but the idea of taking a hit early in an engagement, then being forced to sit the rest out as a casualty lying in a tent is starting to look pretty good. OR maybe I just had a bad day yesterday and need a rest..."

    And is one of the easiest Firpers (First PErson Impressions) to do- catch up on one's sleep as an unconscious patient.



    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    Not a real Civil War reenactor, I only portray one on boards and fora.
    I do not portray a Civil War soldier, I merely interpret one.

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