cart. box blues

[maillemaker]

I would think that an ACW reenactor would no more want to abandon the correct tins for your cartridge box than a WWII reenactor would want to use plastic magzines in a WWII firearm.

If you want an authentic experience, use authentic equipment.

Steve

[LibertyHallVols]

If you want an authentic experience, use authentic equipment.

Bully!!

and... At Chris Wilson...
There are more "delicate", yet more urgently necessary uses for that paper!

[lincolnsguard]

Take out your tins, load your box with all the rounds that will fit and enjoy your guaranteed trip to the hospital. One spark in that open box and boom! The tins are there for your safety. The boys of 186x carried extra rounds in their pockets, haversacks and knapsacks, there's on reason you can't do the same with properly packaged rounds too.



There's good documentation of a Federal soldiers cartridge box going off in the Peach Orchard At Gettysburg:

During the fighting at the Peach Orchard on July 2, "several cartridge boxes were exploded. A shell struck and burst on the box of Corporal Thomas Bignall of Company C. The (explosive) cartridges were driven into his body and fired, and for nearly half a minute the devilish "musket shells" were exploding in his quivering form. But death was mercifully quick."

- from "A History of the 2nd New Hampshire Regiment" by M.A. Hayes.

The 2nd NH was issued Gardiner explosive bullets (also known as "Musket Shells").

[Rob Weaver]

Couple thoughts:
1) The tins are to protect the cartriges. They are made of paper and if jostled around or crushed, they will break. The tins keep them stored in an orderly manner that protects them from damage. It is hard to shoot if you have to scoop loose powder from the bottom of the box!

Yes! That is exactly what they do best! If there's a reason for using tins, that's it. In the long run, your cartridges stay in firing condition.
@Lincolnsguard: It seems pretty clear that the cartridge box in question exploded because it was hit with something firey and deadly during the course of actual combat. I think such a catastrophic cartridge box failure while reenacting is just this side of impossible.

[csaduck]

The tins are for safety of the rounds and for the soldier, blackpowder can explode with impact, falling down on your cartridge box could cause it to explode. I wholeheartedly support the requirement for the use of tins AND that we are not supposed to be “Powder Burners”, but reenactors trying to relive the experience of 1860’s warfare and educate the public.

Gerald Drake

[cooperteague]

falling down on your cartridge box could cause it to explode.

We had this discussion within my unit one time at a unit event(not a reenactment), whether black powder would simply explode from a person falling on their cartridge box.

I decided to test this theory and see just what it would take to make black powder explode without a spark. I took one rolled paper cartridge and placed it on an anvil and struck it with a twelve pound sledge hammer.

It took three hits.

The first hit was simply letting the hammer fall under its own weight on a rolled rifle round from about eighteen inches. All that happened was a squashed paper cartridge. No detonation

The second hit was again simply letting the hammer fall under its own weight from the same height on the resultant pile of powder left over from the first hit. All that happened was the powder was scattered out in a finer layer. Again no detonation.

The third strike was delivered by raising the hammer well over head and bringing it down with force(I dare with a lot more force than could be delivered by simply falling on you cartridge box). This ignited the single layer of powder that was left between the hammer and anvil and it this type of impact that the warning label is primarily warning against.

Our conclusion was that if you hit the ground with enough force to make you cartridge box explode from the impact, your cartridge box would be the least of your worries.

Now, with all that being said, I do use my cartridge tins if for no other reason than to keep track of how many rounds I've fired during a battle.

[Boyd Miles]

Hard to know where to start on this one. Black powder is not a high explosive, it won't explode from impact, it takes a spark to make it burn. It burns, it does not explode, it just burns very quickly and puts out a lot of gas when it does so, the rapidly expanding gas is what makes the ball or in the case of a blank the air move out of the barrel, this makes a boom sound.
Cartridge box tins are designed to keep the cartridges in good condition and to protect you in case of accidental detonation. The tins if you look at them are open at the top and the front. In case a spark gets in your box they direct the flash either up or away from your body. The heavy flap doesn't just keep out water but in case of accident it flips upwards to protect you. The seams should give way and the force of the "explosion" should be directed away from you. Much like the improved ramrods that had a taper to a wide head rather than the abrupt stop at the button safety was engineered into the equipment.
Historically tins were issued and expected to be used, they also maintain the correct square corners of the box. Ammo was issued in packs of ten that fit in the tin bottoms and the tops hold ten loose rounds.
I would think that it would not be controversial to actually use the equipment as it was used in the period. Forty rounds in the box, another couple of packs on your person and a pooled box of arsenal packs in a wooden box if you want to re-enact resupply on the field. If you look at the actual reports it was rare for a soldier to use more than forty rounds in a single engagement and if you are re-enacting an engagement where ammo ran out then how about letting your ammo run out?
If you just want to run around blasting away as much as you possibly can with little or no regard to history then you might want to try Airsoft or paint ball, they have much lower standards for uniforms and can be plenty of fun.

[S.D.Swart]

I would think that it would not be controversial to actually use the equipment as it was used in the period. Forty rounds in the box, another couple of packs on your person and a pooled box of arsenal packs in a wooden box if you want to re-enact resupply on the field. If you look at the actual reports it was rare for a soldier to use more than forty rounds in a single engagement and if you are re-enacting an engagement where ammo ran out then how about letting your ammo run out?
If you just want to run around blasting away as much as you possibly can with little or no regard to history then you might want to try Airsoft or paint ball, they have much lower standards for uniforms and can be plenty of fun.

Fully Agree. Tins and 40 dead men in them should be not only the norm, but the rule, except in a few cases for historial scenarios where the men had been ordered to carry more. Having more cheats the reenactor, the scenario, and the spectators for gaining a understanding of the men of the 60s and thier trials.

Shawn

[Rob Weaver]

Our conclusion was that if you hit the ground with enough force to make you cartridge box explode from the impact, your cartridge box would be the least of your worries.

That's great! I love that you took it upon yourselves to test a long-standing old-wives-tale. You don't work for Mythbusters, do you?
Not to let a little thing like common sense get in the way of a good story: has anyone really ever seen a cartridge box explode? Really? I don't mean a totally inadequate canvas bag carried high on your neck that caught fire from sparks from a flintlock priming pan - I mean a real, honest to Pete leather cartridge box under real reenacting conditions. I've been reenacting for 36 years, almost all of it carrying a musket and I never have. I'm going to go out on a limb here and simply say categorically that it's not going to happen. Tins are not going to protect powder from accidently ignition; that's the box's job. Tins keep the rounds from breaking, leaking powder, getting crushed and facilitate loading. In times past, cartridge boxes had wood blocks to do the same thing. I'd be more worried about someone starting a fire with the 20 rounds in their haversack than the 40 in the box.

[Pvt Schnapps]

There was a guy who fell in with us at Cedar Creek one year who complained because we made him use his tins. At one point during the battle he said he could have fired off 70-90 rounds by the time he got half way through his cartridge box. I said, Really? How many more rebs do you think you would have hit?