69th New York at Antietam

[Regimental Colours]

It's my understanding the 69th New York still carried .69 caliber muskets at Antietam. Can anyone confirm this? Thank you.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Mostly. Archaeological excavations confirmed ordnance returns that the vast majority of the companies were armed with .69 caliber muskets at Antietam. Perhaps Pete Berezuk can pile on to this one?

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Yes they did.

The "Irish Brigade" was M1842 armed save for the Enfields of the 29th Massachusetts. They resisted upgrading them, until disbanded in June 1864 (the 116th PA getting M1861's and the reorganized "Irish" regiments the same), as their "tactics" favored the close-in of buck-and-ball. For Antietam, that would perhaps best be reflected at the Sunken Road.

Curt

[Regimental Colours]

What pattern cartridge was the 69th New York issued?

[PMB1861]

Hallo!

Yes they did.

The "Irish Brigade" was M1842 armed save for the Enfields of the 29th Massachusetts. They resisted upgrading them, until disbanded in June 1864 (the 116th PA getting M1861's and the reorganized "Irish" regiments the same), as their "tactics" favored the close-in of buck-and-ball. For Antietam, that would perhaps best be reflected at the Sunken Road.

Curt

My Dear Sir you are mistaken on your history.

The Irish Brigade was never "disbanded"... the three New York Regiments became Veteran Volunteer Regiments and were recruited back to full strength and served during the remainer of the war in the Army of the Potomac,

With the new influx of personnel, the remaining leaders choose to end using the smoothbore muskets that had been preferred by Meagher and many of the early leaders. The tactical concept at the begining of the war was that with smoothbores using buck and ball a greater weight of fire could be applied in a shorter time to overwhelm a defender before routng them with the Bayonet

Regimental Colors - your choice not to post your real name but it makes it less personal to reply...

In answer to your question, during the Antietam campaign, there is both ordnance records and personal accounts of the three New York Regiments carrying predominately 1842 smoothbores. As far as cartridges, the accounts point to Buck and Ball being preferred and used predominately.

[PMB1861]

It's my understanding the 69th New York still carried .69 caliber muskets at Antietam. Can anyone confirm this? Thank you.

I am participating in a living history this weekend and away from my library... when I return home I will post the title and author of the books that show the ordnance records that confirm the 69th NYSV carried 1842 Muskets at Antietam.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

"My Dear Sir you are mistaken on your history.

The Irish Brigade was never "disbanded"... the three New York Regiments became Veteran Volunteer Regiments and were recruited back to full strength and served during the remainer of the war in the Army of the Potomac,"


Perhaps yes, but I believe it depends upon how one operationalizes "disbanded." Or a glass half full, half empty thing may be.

Toward the end of June 1864, the Irish Brigade along with other long standing II Corps brigades that had been shot up and reduced to regimental size were disbanded and reassigned in an attempt to balance bngade strengths.

The three New York regiments (63rd, 69th, and 88th New York) remained together under the command of Major Richard Moroney, and then under Major John Bryon as part of the new Consolidated Brigade along with six other 1st Division NY units.

The 28th Massachusetts was reassigned to the 2nd Division's 1st Brigade.

The 116th Pennsylvania went to the 2nd Division's 4th Brigade.

(Leaving out the 4th and 7th NY Heavy Artillery)

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
Company "B," 116th PA Infantry Mess

[indguard]

The Irish Brigade was never "disbanded"... the three New York Regiments became Veteran Volunteer Regiments and were recruited back to full strength and served during the remainer of the war in the Army of the Potomac

It would seem to me that if their designation was changed to something else, whether they quit the filed or not, they were "disbanded" (or their former designation retired, at least) and reformed -- even if immediately -- as a different regiment.

WTH
The Semantics' Mess

[PMB1861]

WTH and CHS,

I suppose both of you feel very satisfied right now. Me? Sort of tired... I spent Saturday and Sunday on the Gettysburg Battlefield honoring the Men of the 69th NY and their comrades in the other Irish Brigade units.

Since I'll never see either of you actually out at a quality event, your read of the history matters nothing to me.

[PMB1861]

It's my understanding the 69th New York still carried .69 caliber muskets at Antietam. Can anyone confirm this? Thank you.

Excerpts from the ordnance records and references to them are in Joseph G. Bilby's Remember Fontenoy! The 69th New York and the Irish Brigade in the Civil War