tell me about the organization of color bearers

[GaWildcat]

Colors were also cased when under transport. This tradition continues in the Modern Army, when colors are ceremoniously cased prior to the unit deploying, uncased when the unit arrives in theater, and then cased and uncased during redeployment.

[shanghai drill]

I rcently buttonholed an expert on this subject and got what I think is a working understanding of the subject. Some points I'd add are that the color guard is disctinct from the color company. As it was explained to me, the three "positions of honor" in a regimental line were left, right and center companies. B on the left, A on the right, and C in the center - or right center, really. In the volunteer army, this seems to have been the first three companies recruited.

In addition to having "third honor", Company C was also the color company, which had the color guard attached to it.

Also, when the regiment would go from line into column and back, Company C was always in the center, so the colors were also always in the center. Flags in front of a line of march is a no no.

In the book "The Civil War Notebook of Daniel Chisolm" the diarist joined the 116th Pennsylvania as a recruit in 1864. He was sent straight to the color guard. It would seem that the shine had worn off that duty by that point in the war. I also doubt that he had been promoted to corporal after two weeks in the army.

[johnduffer]

"the three "positions of honor" in a regimental line were left, right and center companies. B on the left, A on the right, and C in the center - or right center, really"

Positioning was based on senority of captains which may or may not have been A,B,C etc. This is 1855 HARDEE but all the manuals read more or less the same:


"1. A regiment is composed of ten companies, which will habitually be posted from right to left, in the following order: first, sixth, fourth, ninth, third, eighth, fifth, tenth, seventh, second, according to the rank of captains."

[RJSamp]

They were charged with defending the color(s), and did not fire otherwise.

Has anyone hear read "10 Years in the US Army"? basically a young Manhattan New Yorker joins the Regulars (by God!) as a young drummer boy. Drilled on Governor's Island New York. Serves out west Injun Fightin', marches to Fort Sibley at the start of the war and is with Sykes Regulars. Eventually becomes quartermaster. Anyway, at one point he becomes a color corporal....literally he's a private\rifleman on one day\battle....and the next day\battle he's next to the colors.

Anyway, they come up on line and he IMMEDIATELY begins firing away. Regular US Army, color guard. Maybe that he wasn't coached in 'reserving' his fire....and maybe the answer to defending the colors is to start firing away at 200 yards....

My own feeling\OPINION is that reenactors use the no firing rule for NCO's and color guards to keep from cleaning \ working their weapons. In reality, in the heat of armed combat, they blazed away MANUALS be Damned.....

What say?

[Pvt Schnapps]

Has anyone hear read "10 Years in the US Army"? basically a young Manhattan New Yorker joins the Regulars (by God!) as a young drummer boy. Drilled on Governor's Island New York. Serves out west Injun Fightin', marches to Fort Sibley at the start of the war and is with Sykes Regulars. Eventually becomes quartermaster. Anyway, at one point he becomes a color corporal....literally he's a private\rifleman on one day\battle....and the next day\battle he's next to the colors.

Anyway, they come up on line and he IMMEDIATELY begins firing away. Regular US Army, color guard. Maybe that he wasn't coached in 'reserving' his fire....and maybe the answer to defending the colors is to start firing away at 200 yards....

My own feeling\OPINION is that reenactors use the no firing rule for NCO's and color guards to keep from cleaning \ working their weapons. In reality, in the heat of armed combat, they blazed away MANUALS be Damned.....

What say?

Well, reenactors might also refrain from firing because they don't want to damage their very expensive colors. Plus, it is indeed what the book says.

Not to argue with you, really, but Augustus Meyers raises an interesting issue that applies to my own field of interest as well as tactics. To really understand what's going on with the army in the civil war, you pretty much have to start with the book -- what was supposed to be done -- and then go to first hand accounts to see how that got modified in practice. If you just start with what was done in practice, you could justify anything while learning nothing.

The passage I think you're referring to occurs during the Seven Days, and it's instructive in that apparently there's an attempt made to do things by the book, but it changes when they're ordered to charge and suddenly find themselves confronted by the enemy at twenty (not two hundred) yards. It's worth quoting in detail:

It was nearly sunset when two officers from General Sykes's
staff made their appearance and gave some order to Captain
John S. Poland who was now in command, and immediately
the order was given to fall in, then by the left flank forward
at double quick. The two aides-de-camp were mounted and led
the column to make a charge on the enemy by General
Sykes's order; one of them was Lieutenant Thomas D.
Parker of my regiment, the name of the other, who belonged
to a different regiment, I do not remember. We rushed on for
about two hundred yards when we halted for a brief space
to correct the alignment on the colors in the center; then the
command "forward, charge." was given and we rushed up
a hill for a hundred yards or so, cheering and yelling like
mad, the two aides-de-camp riding in front in the center
waving their swords.

It suddenly came to me that we were about to attack the
enemy with bayonets. I had been instructed in bayonet
drill and had practised until I was considered proficient ; but I
think at this moment I had a secret wish that the adversary
whom I might encounter would not be a bigger man than I. I
looked ahead but could see no enemy until we reached the crest
of the hill, when we suddenly received a staggering fire, from a
Rebel regiment that seemed not more than twenty yards
away. I saw both of the mounted officers fall at the first fire,
Lieutenant Parker being killed and the other wounded. One
of the horses dropped, while the other rushed madly through
our ranks.

I do not know whether it was by word of command or by
instinct that we halted and instantly began firing instead of
rushing on with the bayonet. I dropped on one knee and
commenced firing as fast as I could ; I aimed at their colors
which were almost opposite ours. We were so close together
that for a few minutes I could plainly distinguish the features
and color of clothing of our opponents until the smoke obscured
them. Suddenly their fire slackened and then ceased alto-
gether ; they seemed to have melted away down their side of
the hill, and we could see only their dead and wounded on
the ground where they had been in line. Why we did not
pursue the retreating enemy puzzled me, for I thought we
now had a chance to give them a good thrashing

I stood up and looked around on a sight still vividly im-
pressed on my memory. We were on high ground over-
looking a considerable part of the fields on which the battle
now raged ; the sun was setting and with its almost horizon-
tal rays lit up a magnificent panorama such as I have never
seen since. I could see masses of infantry engaged in deadly
struggle, the flashing of the artillery, and I heard the terri-
fic roar; but what fascinated me was the figure of a Rebel
officer, mounted on a horse reared up until he seemed to
stand almost straight on his hind legs. I could see the officer
waving his sword over his head, apparently urging his
command forward. At this moment the horse and rider,
illuminated by the parting rays of the sun, appeared gigan-
tic and towered above all else. It was a picture for an
artist. I took all this in, it seemed to me, in a few seconds,
when I heard a command given and dropped back into my
place. The enemy had been so close to us, and I had been
so busy loading and firing, that I had looked neither to the
right nor to the left, but now I observed that we had suf-
fered severely and that two corporals of the color guard had
been wounded.

Suddenly we heard the Rebel yell and saw a mass of Rebel
infantry rushing toward us. We began firing at them as
soon as we saw their heads appear above the crest of the
hill. They halted, short of their former line it seemed to
me, and delivered their fire as we had done when we had
rushed at them. Later on, when I had time to think it over,
it seemed to me that these tactics were not in accordance
with what I had supposed a charge to be. In this case both
sides, finding that the party attacked was not inclined to run,
halted and peppered away at each other rather than become
engaged at close quarters.

I think that as a general rule (and in answer to the initial question in this thread) reenactors should study the war -- or a particular field -- in the two stages noted above: first learn how it should have been done, and then learn how actual practice varied, and why, and when. It's not easy -- most of us don't get very far into the first stage -- but it's the way Augustus Meyers and his comrades learned, and that should tell us something.

[robert hayden]

thanks to all of you for your imput and clarifications. As with many other aspects I'm sure every unit did not follow the
exact same process, but these sound very practical.

[Micah Trent]

"The 105th OVI had not received its colors in time for the battel of Perryville. They were "loaned" one from the 101st Indiana regiment. The Indiana lads were beng "disciplined" and had their colors taken away.
The Ohio lads were so offended and disgusted, that they refused to uncase it."

Interesting you posted this Curt. We were just discussing this action at Park Day in Perryville this past weekend. If I am correct, on the return to Louisville, after the fight, the individual carrying the regimental flag for the 101st fell over, I assume either passed out or died, and the flag was just left lying there next to the body. A Colonel, may have been the Colonel of the 101st (don't hold me to that), riding by and seeing this took the colors, knowing that the 105th OVI hadn't received their flag yet, gave it to them to use as long as they needed, until their flag arrived. The Buckeyes, seeing this wanted no part of the Hoosier flag. The 101st got their colors back once in Louisville, but they were a prime example to everyone to show just how important the colors were.
The reasoning behind giving the 105th OVI the flag was just more then due to the fact that they did not have one, but during the course of action at Perryville, there was much confusion in the ranks of the 105th, especially after being pushed back from the original position, thus several had nothing to look for, especially when rallying etc. However, the 105th gained a lot of respect from other units for holding their ground as long as they did, especially being as "green" as they were. Perhaps that was the reason why they were given the colors.

[KyColorSgt]

"The 105th OVI had not received its colors in time for the battel of Perryville. They were "loaned" one from the 101st Indiana regiment. The Indiana lads were beng "disciplined" and had their colors taken away.
The Ohio lads were so offended and disgusted, that they refused to uncase it."

Interesting you posted this Curt. We were just discussing this action at Park Day in Perryville this past weekend. If I am correct, on the return to Louisville, after the fight, the individual carrying the regimental flag for the 101st fell over, I assume either passed out or died, and the flag was just left lying there next to the body. A Colonel, may have been the Colonel of the 101st (don't hold me to that), riding by and seeing this took the colors, knowing that the 105th OVI hadn't received their flag yet, gave it to them to use as long as they needed, until their flag arrived. The Buckeyes, seeing this wanted no part of the Hoosier flag. The 101st got their colors back once in Louisville, but they were a prime example to everyone to show just how important the colors were.
The reasoning behind giving the 105th OVI the flag was just more then due to the fact that they did not have one, but during the course of action at Perryville, there was much confusion in the ranks of the 105th, especially after being pushed back from the original position, thus several had nothing to look for, especially when rallying etc. However, the 105th gained a lot of respect from other units for holding their ground as long as they did, especially being as "green" as they were. Perhaps that was the reason why they were given the colors.

Hi Micah,
This peaked my interest from research done long ago, so I dug out my notes; the story of the flag carried by the 105th OVI at Perryville is from Albion Tourgee's "The Story of a Thousand" (Buffalo: S. McGerald and Son, 1896). The flag passage is on pages 101-103. On September 13, 1862, at a review by Generals Jackson and Terrill, Colonel Hall of the 105th OVI was reprimanded for having no colors (none having been issued or presented to the regiment). It was a hot day, and on the march back to camp the color-bearer of the 101st Indiana fell unconscious due to the heat. General Terrill gave that flag to Colonel Hall, saying "Here is a stand of colors for you; see if your regiment can keep them off the ground!" "But this is a state flag, General ... we are Ohio troops, not Indianians." "No matter; keep the flag until I order it returned." Tourgee said that the flag was rarely if ever unfurled, and that the 105th OVI carried it cased in a black case at Perryville, and gave it back some months later with bullet holes in it.

Back to the subject of organization of color-bearers, here is an article that may be of interest. It was in the old CCG years ago, but the information and descriptions from period manuals and sources is still valid. Sorry the files are small, I had to compress them for here, but I think they can still be read if you enlarge them.

Best,
Greg

[Micah Trent]

Hi Micah,
This peaked my interest from research done long ago, so I dug out my notes; the story of the flag carried by the 105th OVI at Perryville is from Albion Tourgee's "The Story of a Thousand" (Buffalo: S. McGerald and Son, 1896). The flag passage is on pages 101-103. On September 13, 1862, at a review by Generals Jackson and Terrill, Colonel Hall of the 105th OVI was reprimanded for having no colors (none having been issued or presented to the regiment). It was a hot day, and on the march back to camp the color-bearer of the 101st Indiana fell unconscious due to the heat. General Terrill gave that flag to Colonel Hall, saying "Here is a stand of colors for you; see if your regiment can keep them off the ground!" "But this is a state flag, General ... we are Ohio troops, not Indianians." "No matter; keep the flag until I order it returned." Tourgee said that the flag was rarely if ever unfurled, and that the 105th OVI carried it cased in a black case at Perryville, and gave it back some months later with bullet holes in it.

Thanks Greg!

[RJSamp]

Also, when the regiment would go from line into column and back, Company C was always in the center, so the colors were also always in the center. Flags in front of a line of march is a no no.

Tell that to the veterans in the Grand Review photos of 1865. Plenty of times the flags are at the head of the column, i.e. a column of ROUTE (as to a column of manouevre. Fife and Drum Corps as well. And specifically your reference to "a line of march", of course the flag(s) are 6 paces out in front of a battle line whilst advancing....