Most of the India made guns use teak wood for the Stocks. I know of one fellow who refinished one, and he said the only thing that would touch the wood as far as color was Brown leather dye. The gun, a land pattern pistol,. turned out really nice. I'm not sure what Loyalist uses, but I'd guess it's teak.
Bobby Bivins
48th Tennessee Infantry (Nixon's)
GunBroker.com auction #296692146 has the pics of the de-farb Lorenz.
REALLY? Italy is within the realm of the Third World? either you are daft or doing a poor job as an editor of a publication in making declarative (and patently incorrect) statements- Italy is neither "Extremely Poor", not aligned with NATO, nor against capitalism, which is the very definition of "Third World" of which countries in Asia and Africa are categorized. For further edification, "Second World" would be Russia and China...Italy is a country that has a remarkable history in the arts, commerce, military, industry, and government for several thousands of years, not just slightly above two hundred years- so I think you should restate or recant, but in above all else educate yourself above this myopic viewpoint.Originally Posted by Craig L Barry
Maine Vol, you mis-understood what Craig wrote. He said the only places the repro muskets are available from are th 3rd world 'COMMA' Pedersoli and Armi Sport in Italy. That means 3 separate sources. He was not saying Italy is 3rd world.
Moderator note:
This forum will not tolerate calling people out on a personal level and suggests that folks slow down, read, re-read, and then perhaps read again before making public suggestions that someone doesn't know what they are talking about. In the end, everyone will be happier....
Ross Lamoreaux
Moderator and Sewer of Historical Clothing and Tall Tales
"But our opportunity to learn and grow, to communicate the richness of the lives that have gone before us, that does not change. We do not outgrow it. It does not tatter and fall apart in our hands..." -Mrs. Terre Lawson, 2010
I have a question about the Lorenz and other Indian weapons provided by Loyalist and Veteran arms. Aside from safety and authenticity issues (which I don't want to get into), what about spare parts? I ask because I've had a couple of Armi-Sports (a Sharps and a '42) with defective mainsprings but it was not difficult to find replacements. Who would make, for example, a replacement mainspring, trigger sear, or rammer for the Lorenz or, for that matter, a doglock or Charleville? Thanks!
M. A. Schaffner
Midstream Regressive Complainer
Spare parts are indeed a concern, but are available from Loyalist Arms. I don't know how many they keep in-stock but they can get them sent over from the manufacturer. From what I have seen of thiese Lorenzes they springs are good and strong. A few yrs ago I bought a couple of Brown Besses from The Discerning General that were made in India. I called beforehand and talked to one of their salesmen about the spring issue and he told me he'd only heard of a couple of spring breaks in several years. I bought them and have to say the springs are very good. I was pleasantly surprised. Last night I snapped a brand new Armi Sport Enfield spring taking it out of the lock with a spring vise. Looking at the steel in the break I am not pleased. It is a cast part or cintered metal part. That is a weak and cheap spring and they are going to have a lot of breaks with those. Springs need to be a good forged carbon steel piece that is correctly formed then heat treated and tempered to last. Cintered metal is formed like casting, in a mould then heat treated and tempered. But this leaves tiny air bubles and fisures inside the metal and leaves it inherently weak. The Indians are making these the correct way from my observations so far.
Moderator Note:
One of the unseen administrative tasks here is that a moderator must read, approve, and release any post made by a Junior Member. It's the primary way we sort out spamm advertisements, posts from people who have not been members long enough to sell, and folks whose communication skills are too poor to be readable. This eliminates about 40% of all 'first posts'
I must say, I was surprised to see a new member come out with guns blazing on a first post, especially taking offense at a post where Reading (and comprehension) is Fundamental. I considered deleting rather than releasing the post, but that action usually results in multiple email exchanges, in which I must explain the forum rules that are evident if someone takes the time to read before they post.
We continue to be grateful for Mr Watt's and Mr Barry's fine work in this exacting area that affects both the quality of impression and the overall safety of the hobby
Mrs. Lawson
Weaver, Spinster, Strong Fast Dyes
Knitted Goods and yarns available thlawson@bellsouth.net
Moderator, When I remember. We got Rules here!
http://www.bluegraygettysburg.com/
No offense taken. This is funny. I could almost see where Maine Volunteer read it that way, if not for the comma. The comma is placed there to
separate the "third world" (largely small shops in India and Pakistan) from the two remaining Civil War reproduction
Italian gun-makers, Armi Chiappa (Armi Sport) and Pedersoli. Perhaps "AND" would have been clearer than just a comma.
And while I am at it, let me add that Italy has an excellent proof house in Gardonne in Brescia. My main gripe with the
gas pipe musket trade (meaning "third world") is the lack of any standard for barrel proof. They could be fine for blanks or maybe not...They are growing wildly in popularity in the (re)enacting world because of their low initial cost. They are here to stay whether I like it or not.
Todd Watts is a professional gunsmith and if he is satisfied with the Lorenz barrel integrity, so be it.
I would concur about the springs. The investment cast machine grade (low carbon) steel that Armi Sport uses to make their springs results in something much poorer than the originals. I consider them unacceptable. The original springs (both 150 years old) in my P53 and US Model 55 are still smoother functioning and stronger than new Armi Sport springs. The Pedersoli springs are always first rate, and believe it or not the India/Paki mainsprings are hand forged and usually very decent. There is just no hope that a replacement could be found should one ever break. If it were found, it would take quite a bit of fitting to make it function. They are very much hand-made weapons, no two are truly alike.
Last edited by Craig L Barry; 07-27-2012 at 01:05 AM.
Craig L Barry
Editor, The Watchdog in Civil War News
Now that's authenticity! Just not as handy as we today are accustomed to. I am proofing the Indian barrels myself by double charging with 120 grs FFFg and topping with a ball, sticking a fuse in the vent and strapping the barrel to a sawhorse. Light the fuse and R-U-N-D-O-F-T! makes a big bang but they are holding just fine. After shot measurements show no bulging and no cracking - yet. But, that said, I will not give my own personal recomendation that anyone shoot projectiles from the Indian tubes. All I am saying is that I tested it once and it held. What you do is up to you, but I feel completely safe saying they are safe for blanks. Surprisingly, event though they are smooth bored, with the .60" ball patched their sights are close to dead-on at 25 yds. I am toying with the notion of hunting with one this fall for kicks.
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