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Thread: First Aide

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bald Knob, AR
    Posts
    40

    Default First Aide

    How many of y'all actually provide first aide if needed with a modern first aide kit hid away somewhere? I am thinking of not only re-certifying in first aide but also getting an instructor's certification through the Red Cross. Being an old Scouter and an old USN Hospital Corpsman gone bad via surgery, I have been providing first aide in most camps I have been and especially in back country. (Thank God nothing bad!) Being new to this hobby, prepared are you for a typical event and for your own outfit?

    Sam Vanderburg
    Bald Knob, AR
    Rebel MD in the making

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    131

    Default

    I've brought a small kit with me for a couple immersion events when asked to. Generally speaking, if immediate first-aid was not available. Granted, scope of practice will prevent you from doing anything except the most fundamental and very, very basic things -even if it is the correct thing to do.

    Depending on the event, size of your kit, and what you're trained it, will really be the deciding factors.
    Mark Krausz
    Prodigal Sons Mess of Co. B, 36th IL Inf. Vols.
    Old Northwest Volunteers

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    819

    Default

    In today's sue happy world, I would watch doing this. The old military CYA. With the folks you know, you would probably be alright, but otherwise, you might get your *** in a sling. I've been to several events where they have the local ambulance EMTs on hand, at during the battle.
    Fritz Jacobs
    CPT, QM, USAR (Ret)
    VP Kentucky Soldiers Aide Society
    CPTFritz@aol.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tuskaloosa, Alabama
    Posts
    4,337

    Default

    It's always wise to be aware of the scope of Good Samaritan laws in each state you where you reenact.

    Those events which are basically 'static camps' also have local EMT coverage if the organizers have any level of experience. The cost of having a couple of fellers and an ambulance on site is one of those hidden event costs that folks who've never put on an event miss when costing things out.

    Immersion events also tend to be 'moving' events, often in wilderness areas where you've got to tend an injury and get them out to a road or clearing. As Mark points out, that's where the guy with stuff in his pack is vital. Organizers do need to make a more equitable provision to help with the load, so that the guy with the gear is not doing without on personal needs in order to care for others.

    For us, big medical supply is crated in one of the wagons and retrieved as needed.

    The one thing I'd pocket for a mainstream event is a CPR mouthpiece.
    Mrs. Lawson
    Weaver, Spinster, Strong Fast Dyes
    Knitted Goods and yarns available thlawson@bellsouth.net



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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    66

    Default

    According to what I was told in the Red Cross First Aid course I took, with proper certification you are generally free from legal action for trying to assist an injured person, as long as you identify yourself and get the person's permission. If they are unconscious or unable to respond, it's considered to be OK.

    I think this gets into a very important area. At Secessionville I was an assistant surgeon at the hospital tent. One fella had a powder flash as he was loading his musket. He was just behind a battery that had been overrun. An artillery crewman came to help, but that pulled the crewman away from the cannon, creating a problem for that piece. In addition, the wounded fella was in the way. I took him off the field and to the hospital tent, where we got the emt's to him for treatment.

    In short, medical personnel are in a unique position. We are in uniform, so our presence on the field does not disrupt the event. We can move freely, not being in formation or in charge of a group. Most of us have at least a strong interest in medical care, and some of us have training (for me, it was Scouts, Army, and Red Cross first aid and CPR). I think we fill a very important gap between the action on the field and the on site medical care.

    That being said, we need to know our place. First of all, NEVER get in the way of the trained medical personnel. Don't hesitate to call help onto the field(some people carry a 2X2 red flag to wave to signal the EMTs.). And get training. A lot has changed over the years.

  6. #6

    Default

    Take a few minutes when you arrive to met the on-site EMTs and introduce yourself. Ask them how you can integrate your specific role into their system... the "wave a red flag" is great when the EMTs know who and what to look for.

    If an EMT would like to dress out to be closer to hand when needed, they should be very careful that their appearance is appropriate to the situation. As in.. females should be either dressed as females of the period or disguise their gender to the extent the non-EMT soldiers are expected to... and children should be left behind in camp so the EMT is free to focus solely on the task at hand.

    Be respectful of the choices of others. Some folks are a wealth of knowledge about 19th century medicine, but just dispense history. They will call for an EMT when a real medical emergency comes up, but they will not treat anyone for an actual medical emergency.
    -Elaine Kessinger

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bald Knob, AR
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Wow! Great input! Thanks!

    I do know that first aide is good Samaritan covered and as trained - in other words your main job in serious problems it to assure EMS are notified then to provide life saving measures until replaced by someone in relief or the first responders arrive. However, every once in a while, something needs a bandage until they can get to "real treatment" such as suturing which is done in a professional setting such as a clinic. First aide is...well...the first aide for an injury until "better" treatment can be sought. The CPR shield is a real must for those trained to use it.

    I would hope that in an event of any size, EMS would be readily available.

    CPR training at each unit level would be a great thing for all of life! Coming from my experience, I heartily recommend it! I certainly want the guy next to me CPR certified when I need him!

    Please keep all those responces coming! Great discussion!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowfoot View Post
    An artillery crewman came to help, but that pulled the crewman away from the cannon, creating a problem for that piece. In addition, the wounded fella was in the way.
    Think about this for a moment. You ran into an actual, unplanned, frightening period-correct problem, one that had no right answer during the real battle.

    I get flak for this often, but to me, safety will always trump authenticity, especially at any large public event. Immersion event participants can agree to understand that help may not be available immediately, etc., but even then having a perennial pessimist look over the site for worst-case scenarios can be a (literal) lifesaver:

    No matter what, someone MUST have a reliable means of calling 911.
    If there won't be an ambulance on site, someone needs to be sure there is usable cell service at the site and someone needs to be carrying a cell phone. It can be turned off, but it must be usable.
    Someone needs to have a way to be notified of severe weather in the area. We can testify that funnel clouds and their torrential rain can pop up even when they're not in the forecast.
    Part of event prep means finding an alternate way out of the event site, especially if the main route crosses water(flood threat) or is exposed on a ridge (lightning/wind threat.) If you know where there's an extra trail or logging road, it may also be useful if someone does get hurt.
    There needs to be some signal that there is a real, not fate-card, medical emergency at hand. "Call 911!" works for me, but anything that gets the idea across will do. Many years ago, at a non-CW event, I had a hard time getting the idea across that something serious had happened. There was real blood, and an actual serious injury, but the person who was supposed to call for help said she thought the injured person was "just acting". The signal needs to be clear and unmistakable.

    Side note: the smoothest emergency response I have ever seen has been at PGA Tour events. Twice we've been at tournaments when severe weather blew in, and we were cleared within five minutes (including an alert staffer offering me a lift in a golf cart as soon as he spotted my cane.) Once there was a life-threatening emergency on the course, and it was handled so quickly and discreetly that most of us didn't know it had happened until the good outcome was reported on the nightly news. Think about it: they handle over a hundred events a year at which people are moving over a large expanse of cleared ground, exposed to the elements, often during summer heat, while ducking projectiles. The actual participants are fit, but the spectators are not and many of the crowd are elderly. Judging by what I've seen, they're worth listening to.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    25

    Default An ounce of prevention...

    I had a good taste of a national l event recently. Most of the medical staffs worked together. Even thought there were RNs, Paramedics etc. in our group we provided only the most basic medical support. I liken it to security guards they look semi official and are the eyes and ears of the police. If anything serious goes down they make the call an give a report. It is no different on the battlefield. We may carry extra bottles of water, ice packs, bandage a small cut or remove the occasions tick but the rest of the time it is observation and notification to EMS. Sometimes it can get busy for EMS so you might be providing a little psychological first aid until they arrive.

    Also encourage your guys to use common sense, drink well, take shade and open up their uniforms when out of the public eye.

    In a bad economy lawsuit are up Good Samaritan doesn't keep people from suing you. It may help you win but retaining a lawyer is very expensive and they expect you will settle out of court just to save the hassle and expense of winning your case.
    Maj. Mason Lumpkins
    Battalion Surgeon (U.S.V.)
    Muddy River Battalion
    Western Missouri

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    13

    Default

    New protocols in many parts of the country call for bystanders to perform "CCR", often called "Hands Only CPR" or "Call and Pump", for witnessed cardiac arrests on adults over the age of 15. In other words, you see someone drop and it isn't from a drug overdose or drowning, you can do this, and it is found to increase survival over traditional CPR. Essentially, you check the airway, you check for pulse, and then you start compressions at the rate of 100 per minute until the AED arrives. No breaths. This method can be taught in about fifteen minutes to anyone. Our EMS departments do big open houses where you can drop in and learn it. It might not be a bad idea to see if the hospital or EMS department in your area would be willing to drop by a meeting or drill and give a demonstration. The more hands, the better, because chest compressions at that rate are very, very tiring.

    Honestly, it's the best thing to do if you if you don't have a full resuscitation bag handy. Even our EMTs don't give the initial breaths anymore. This is what is taught to our first responders. Traditional CPR still has value, but the most likely scenario you all will see in the field is going to be the one CCR is designed for. You can learn about it here: http://www.webmd.com/news/20080311/f...instead?page=2

    I am no longer an EMT, but as a veteran of many a day-long ambulance stand-by, I can say never hurts to come by and say hello to the medics, because it can get pretty boring for us. And bring snacks
    Carrie Preston

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