Machine Button Holes

[chase196126]

The topic came up in the CS sack coat thread about machine sewn button holes, so I thought I would start a new thread. As mentioned in the previous discussion there are several pair of trousers that have machine made button holes. Does any one have pictures of these trousers, and or their button holes? Does anyone have a picture of a machine made button hole from a garment that was in use during the war?
I own one of Mr. Sekelas frocks that contains the period machined holes and i am interested in learning about the different articles of clothing that are like it.

Thanks!
Chase

PS Please, do not let this turn into a war of machined vs. hand work. Let's discuss existing garments without getting into a war of reproductions.

[tompritchett]

As mentioned in the previous discussion there are several pair of trousers that have machine made button holes.

First, let me put on my non-moderator, just interested reenactor hat, I am also interested in whether these are all representative of just one manufacturer (A&S?) or multiple manufacturers. Also, in addition to pictures, I would be interested if there are other complimentary documentation as contracted quantities and such. Where machine made button holes may not have the "norm", it would be interested in getting pretty information on the overall frequency of their occurrence.

Please, do not let this turn into a war of machined vs. hand work. Let's discuss existing garments without getting into a war of reproductions.

Now for my moderator hat, let me echo this request. If anyone tries to steer this discussion away from existing garments and historical records and towards a "war of reproductions", their post will be deleted in its entirety. No edits this time. I will be watching this thread closely.

[Provost]

"their post will be deleted in its entirety. No edits this time. "

I want to make a brief comment; to remind those who have been here on the CWR a long time and inform those who are new. Tom is acting in accordance with long standing forum policy in this regard.

It is not the moderators's responsibility to separate babies from bathwater. That is to say, we're not here to edit member's posts and separate comments that may be rude or disrespectful from those made in the spirit of respectful debate.

It is the members' responsibility to make sure they are acting in that spirit, as well as the "letter of the law."

Your participation on that high level will lead us closer to being the sort of place where all sides of issues, and all manner of information, can be shared in a spirit of open inquiry for our mutual benefit. That has been the focus of our effort for some time and will continue to be so.

My deepest thanks to Tom, and you all, for your help in this matter.

Provost

[NJ Sekela]

Mr. Pinkham:

I could hardly think of a more uninviting circumstance than having the two moderators cracking their knuckles at the door.

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela,
Manf'r.
N. Jers'y.

http://www.njsekela.com
http://www.ejtsutler.com.
http://www.carterandjasper.com

[tompritchett]

Mr. Pinkham:

I could hardly think of a more uninviting circumstance than having the two moderators cracking their knuckles at the door.

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela,
Manf'r.
N. Jers'y.

Maybe it because both of us are tired of having discussions about historical clothing turned into p******g contests between supporters of two prominent makers of authentic historical reproductions. Frankly, I would rather not have to put on my moderator hat to bring discussions back under control. Instead I would prefer to just let the conversations flow and make my comments as just a reenactor interested in the topic - one such as this.

[vmescher]

The topic came up in the CS sack coat thread about machine sewn button holes, so I thought I would start a new thread. As mentioned in the previous discussion there are several pair of trousers that have machine made button holes. Does any one have pictures of these trousers, and or their button holes? Does anyone have a picture of a machine made button hole from a garment that was in use during the war?
I own one of Mr. Sekelas frocks that contains the period machined holes and i am interested in learning about the different articles of clothing that are like it.

Thanks!
Chase

PS Please, do not let this turn into a war of machined vs. hand work. Let's discuss existing garments without getting into a war of reproductions.

While I don't have any original garments with machine buttonholes in them, I have done considerable research on buttonhole attachments.

Below is a compilation of what I have found.

From _Sewing Machine Attachements_ by George Gregory (1872)
A buttonhole machine was patented in 1854 and whip-stitched or a buttonhole stitch, similar to our zig-zag stitch and an attachment was patented in 1856. They were difficult to use. In 1860 two different buttonhole attachments were patented, but there were still problems. The quality of the buttonhole depended on the operator of the machine. They were automatic in that the machine did the stitching, but they still required an operator to manipulate the machine and fabric. In 1862 and 1864 another buttonhole attachment was patented and improved. The author wrote about buttonhole attachments, "thread carriers loop their threads with the threads carried by two needles placed side by side on one needle bar, and the threads of the carriers connect the two parallel seams, or the thread pass through the cloth back of, and through the button-hole slot."

From Eighty Years of Progress in the United States_ (1861)
In 1861, a buttonhole machine was mentioned as producing 100 buttonholes
per hour and were superior to those done by hand. The machine was patented by Vogel (patent # 25,692) in 1859.

David Wood Humphrey was issued a patent on Oct. 14, 1862 (#36,617) for a
machine that did over-edge and buttonhole sewing. This machine was
improved in 1864 and 1865. Singer purchased the patent rights for the
Union Buttonhole machine in 1867. This machine was mentioned in _One
Hundred Years of Progress_ (1870) said of the Union Buttonhole Machine,
that it could make buttonholes "in silk, alpaca, bombazine, muslin,
broadcloth, and leather. The buttonholes were not gimped but pearled with
perfection and beauty which no handwork can surpass."

W. B. Bartram was issued a patent (#62,520) on Mar. 5, 1867 for a button
hole sewing machine.

I realize that patents are not proof that a product was ever manufactured or available to the public, but at least the patent date is a starting date to start looking.

From a Wilson & Wilson advertisement from 1862. In 1862, Wheeler & Wilson stated that their buttonhole machine could sew 1,000 buttonholes per day and only 40 per day could be done by hand. Apparently, these buttonhole machines were for commercial use only.

In an 1867 _Atlantic Monthly_ article stated that the sewing machine
performed nearly all that the needle did and that it seamed, hemmed, tucked, bound, embroidered, and made buttonholes.

It was not until 1882 that the first automatic buttonhole machine was patented. It cut the hole, stitched over gimp and around the slit. It was patented by John Reece.

I have seen several advertisements for buttonhole machines or attachments,
but it is impossible to ascertain how prevalent they were. The number of sewing machines manufactured, sold and probably used is fairly easy to find using census figures and manufacturer's figures, but as for attachments, I have not found anything conclusive. I think it would be safe to say that during the Civil War, most buttonholes were worked by hand but there may have been some done by machine, since the Wheeler & Wilson commercial machine was in use in 1862.

[3rd Alabama]

Mr. Pinkham:

I could hardly think of a more uninviting circumstance than having the two moderators cracking their knuckles at the door.

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela,
Manf'r.
N. Jers'y.

http://www.njsekela.com
http://www.ejtsutler.com.
http://www.carterandjasper.com

Since you brought it up in another thread about machine sewn button holes on 5 existing federal trousers I and I am sure many others are real interested to see the documentation and pictures of said garments. I have never come across any CW era garments with machined buttonholes so I am very interested to see documentation of these.

[bob 125th nysvi]

Virginia:

There are times when the patent might take several years before it was issued. So the patent date is just the date the government recognized the invention as being unique and original.

So there could have been machines in use PRIOR to the patent date.

Also I don't know if any uniforms might have been ordered from overseas (like England). But if they were you are now talikng about when did the English start using button hole machines.

But just thinking as an innovative American manufacturer who had just gotten a big government contract for the first time. If I could get my hands on a machine that did 100 buttonholes an hour. And I could afford it, I'd at least THINK about it.

Bob Sandusky
125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

[tompritchett]

Since you brought it up in another thread about machine sewn button holes on 5 existing federal trousers I and I am sure many others are real interested to see the documentation and pictures of said garments. I have never come across any CW era garments with machined buttonholes so I am very interested to see documentation of these.

Moderator hat - Carefull on documentation challenges. If you are requesting more information about the garments themselves for purposes of personal enlightment, then that is acceptable, but, if you are actually challenging the authenticity of the garments, then you are crossing the line for this thread.

Reenactor hat - Nick, I am very curious if these pants are all associated with a single manufacturer or multiple manufacturers. I know that you may not have that information, but, if you do, I think that information would be pertinent to ongoing discussion.

[3rd Alabama]

Moderator hat - Carefull on documentation challenges. If you are requesting more information about the garments themselves for purposes of personal enlightment, then that is acceptable, but, if you are actually challenging the authenticity of the garments, then you are crossing the line for this thread.

This in no way was a challenge. I am interested in it exactly as I stated because I have never viewed an original with them. Nick if these are in a museum or any other public collection I would love to know where so I can go and view them.