Union Regimental Colors and National Flags???

[MMurphy]

Just a quick crazy question...due to a little discussion and a project I am working on.
Union Regiments and their colors...

Did EACH Union Regiment (Specifically in the Eastern Theater), have their own set of National Colors AND a Regimental Color, (in other words, two flags)???

I've seem some US Flags (National Colors), that also seem to be "Regimental Colors" (Some New Jersey units)...while others had the "Blue Regimental Flag with the Eagle", etc...(Ohio, especially).

So if a Union Regiment was coming at you, what would you see?....

And how did this change from Regiment to Brigade and Brigade to Division?

Thanks in Advance...yes I know this is an odd and awkward question...

[79th New York]

Basically, yes. National, Regimental and in a perfect world.....Flank Markers.

[flattop32355]

Quoting from Dominic Dal Bello's "Parade, Inspection and Basic Evolutions of the Infantry Battalion", 4th Ed., paragraph 145, page 53, and so indirectly from Henry L. Scott's "Military Dictionary", 1861, page 164:

"Each regiment of artillery and infantry has two silken colors, but only one is borne or displayed at the same time, and on actual (pre-war) service that is usually the regimental one." During the Civil War, however, it seems that in general (but not always) Federals carried only the national colors into the field, reserving their regimental/state colors for ceremony.

[Colonel Dave]

I have a lot of respect for Dom and all he achieved. The hobby lost a good man when he decided to stop reenacting.
But....I have no idea what he based his statement(s) on and have never encountered a regulation that states that only one flag was to be flown.
Mike, the Regulations I have read state there will be two flags, one National and one regimental. A little trivia test....why is it called a National flag when it has a blue field with stars and red and white stripes? Why isn't it called an American flag? I know but let's see who can answer.
BTW, the origional question coming from a Confederate reminds me of the 130th Resaca when the Confederate commander sent a trusted aide to determine how many Yanks were marching across the field to attack during Saturday's tactical.
This trusted aide, knowing that each of his battalions carried one flag each, counted the flags of my 6 battalions. He respectfully reported there were 12 Yankee battalions attacking. True story.

[Tom Scoufalos]

There is such a variety of situations that it is hard to generalize. Many volunteer regiments followed some kind of permutation of the Regular Army system of displaying two colors, but not all; further, those two colors may have been National and Regimental, National and State, or State and Regimental. Add to that the special presentation colors that may or may not have been carried in the field (more often, not) and the situation of any given regiment at any one time getting them repaired, or having battle honors painted on them, and it becomes quite interesting!

One state's example: Pennsylvania regiments, as a rule, carried one color: the State Color. However, that state flag looks an awful lot like a national flag as it is the stars and stripes with the Arms of the state surrounded by stars in the canton and "XXth REG: P.V." on the centre stripe. The state issued these to all foot regiments, without exception that I know of. Cavalry regiments carried a single regimental standard; in PA's case that being a more traditional state flag (arms on a blue field) that was analagous to the single regimental standard carried by Regular cavalry regiments. This is, of course, excepting the company guidons.

That said, it was not unusual for foot regiments to have carried a second color: sometimes a more traditional state flag; occasionally a true National color (26th PA had a presentation National color sent from California for example), a yellow artillery regimental, or a "Fenian/Irish/Green" flag. One unusual exception is the 56th PA at Gettysburg; their State color was sent away for somethingorother and they carried a camp marker as a "color" into the battle.

Add every other state's bias to the mix (or the lack thereof) and you have quite a colorful variety. Pun intended

[Rob Weaver]

Each regiment was supposed to have a regimental flag and a national flag, but like almost all things, whether they did or not depends on the time and the circumstances. For instance, the 13th Pa Reserves were split into 2 battalions in 1862. One was on the Peninsula, the other in the Valley. The one in the Valley carried an unofficial flag that had originally belonged to one of the companies. The battalion on the Peninsula lost their colors at one point. When the 2 battalions were reunited, they marched under the unofficial flag until a new one was presented.
In addition, believe it or not, there were times when a flag was retired as no longer servicable, and there was a period of time when the regiment either borrowed one as needed or did without. The Iron Brigade was presented with a flag all its own (making it I believe one of a select few brigades which ever had distinctive colors) but they sent it home as too pretty to fly. I can point to a number of high number Pennsylvania regiments which never received flags at all.

[crazyyankee]

Here is an example of the State colors of the 45th PVI. Here are 2 pictures of the 1st and 3rd flag that the unit carried. The 2nd is lost in time.

If you are portraying a Pennsylvania unit you can view the flag(s) in Harrisburg by appointment. That is how we got the pictures.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Throughout the war the U. S. government issued regimental, national, and camp colors to regiments. A slightly larger number of national colors seem to have actually been issued, which I think may reflect the purchase of more regimental colors from places like Tiffany's.

Casey's, in the diagram of the formation of a battalion in battle, shows only one color deployed, the national. The School of the Battalion, describing the duties of the color guard, assume only one bearer, and thus, I suppose, just the one flag. In volume I, para. 45, battalions of less than five companies do not display the colors at all.

That the flag carried by the full regiment was typically the national, seems borne out by the decision of the Confederate government to create the battle flag for clearer distinction from the old flag.

There's an interesting passage in the October 29, 1864 Army and Navy Journal presenting a Congratulatory Order to the Army of the James, describing its overall accomplishments and naming a series of individual soldiers who distinguished themselves. Again and again we hear of a single soldier carrying, carrying off, or saving the regiment's color.

That said, I've seen illustrations of both flags carried in battle, and numerous mentions. Colonel Wells, in his AAR of the 34th Mass. at New Market, several times describes directing his color-bearer, singular, to take a particular position, but at the end of the report praises not only the Color Sergeant, but a "Corporal Pepper, bearer of the State flag."

This may be another example of something confusing us now that also confused them at the time, where the "right" answer does not always apply to the practice of every regiment in every battle.

[bob 125th nysvi]

were always issued two flags based on the NYS Militia regulations of 1858.

The NYS regulation mimicked the Federal regulations as to size design and mounting of the flags. The 125th carried theirs through out he war (and replaced the flag they lost at Harpers Ferry in 1862). The final "regimental" flag still exists in the NYS Military Museum collection (restoration completed courtesy of my unit).

There are of course regiments that fielded "non-official" designs.

As to other states I can't answer.

[billwatson2]

"This may be another example of something confusing us now that also confused them at the time, where the "right" answer does not always apply to the practice of every regiment in every battle."


Ah. Like the coat that must be "buttoned, and hooked at the top" ?