Sniper scope

[Artyman]

If one were wanting to do a Berdan or other type of sharpshooter/sniper, where might one get ahold of a repro scope to mount on a Sharps rifle?

Harry

[Blair]

Harry,

Try looking here.

http://winchestersutler.com/BCA_Scope.html

Last I heard (a year ago now) they were working on the side mounted scopes like those used on Whitworth's

[GaWildcat]

Harry,

Just a note, IIRC, most of the Sharps carried by the 1st and 2nd USSS weren't scoped. The telescopic sights were usually mounted on target rifles. And, unless they had won one of the Whitworth or Kerr Rifles your PEC Cornfed Sharpshooter used "long range" rifles or rifle muskets...for example, Enfields (both rifles and rifled muskets), Springfields and Mississippi's. There are numerous books out there on Berdan's and for CS I recommend Shock Troops of the Confederacy: Sharpshooter Battalions of the Army of Northern Virginia

[Artyman]

Wow! That site Blair listed shows a scope mounted to an Enfield! I already have the Enfield.

I was thinking of using the scope in my live fire fun, hence the Sharps rifle. Sure would look good on that Enfield though.

Harry

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

IMHO, putting a telescopic sight on a percussion Sharps is unhistorical and a reenactor's fancy. (The same for a "Springfield" or "Enfield.").

None of these three weapons is much of a "long range" rifle. For that reason, Berdan's NUG kept two target rifles per company in the wagon train for use by the best company shot when there was a rare special need for a long-range weapon.

Another historical issue is that I see the "scope" maker is kicking the product up a bit offering say 6X magnification. Early telesopic sights were often 1X, 1.5X, and 2X, and having looked down a few originals my impression was that they did not do very much at all.

I once had a 2X tube mounted on an original 1865 made and dated Ohio .45 target rifle. Never fired it though.

And I once was sold a Spencer rifle where the previous owner, a CAS lad, thought he could make a "long range rifle out of it by adding a Vernier sight to the wrist and a spirit-level front sight to compete in the M1874 metallic cartridge Sharps and Remington Rolling Block cartridge, etc., matches. He should have gone with close-range mortar sights.
But since he did not mention the "changes" and sold it as a military Spencer, I declined the sale and sent it back.

But yes, the new line of telescopic sights are a big improvement over the old "Navy Arms" type plain brass tubes.

CHS

[Artyman]

The real problem with long range accuracy from a rifle musket seems to me to be from three things: stiff trigger pull, fouling, and inconsistent loads. I agree that a scope might not overcome these, but from strictly a shoot at the range non authentic standpoint I can't see where it would hurt either. I have a vernier sight on my Armi Sport Sharps and it helped my grouping at ranges of 100 to 150 yards. Beyond that the ammo and bullet issues begin to show up. I mentioned on an earlier thread that I like using sized ringtailed bullets over Hornaday Great Plains bullets, but trying to use an open sight means the quality of the ammo is often irrelevant when balanced against the other issues I mention.

I just sorta hoped that maybe a long tube scope might leave me with one less issue.

Harry

[Blair]

Harry,

This is just a suggestion on my part, but, I would work on getting all components of your loading as consistent as possible for the range you intend to be shooting. Greater distances require greater consistency in your loads for that range. Greater ranges may require varying your loads to some degree to achieve good results. Especially with black powder.
This include weighing your powder charge, bullet and making sure the bullet diameter is consistent.
Adding a telescopic sight to your firearm will only tend to add to your frustration factor if you don't have uniformity in the loads you wish to use. You will expect the bullet to preform better because you can see the target better through the scope. It doesn't work that way. Not until you make the load (s) as uniform as you can will the "bullet on target" work better.

The Sharps "ring-tail" or what some call the "Christmas tree" bullet was originally designed to be self-centering and self-sealing within the chamber.
Sizing the tapered "Christmas tree shaped ring-tail" Sharps bullet may effect the bullets ability to be self-centering or properly seal in the rifling.
These are just some ideas you may wish to look into before you invest in a scope.

[Artyman]

Sizing bullets has been a habit of mine for a long time. I knew that the ringtails are supposed to be self centering but that presumes that the bullet is perfectly round to start with. When I size my ringtails I use a .540 die and it doesn't take much off, but at least makes every bullet the same size and perfectly round since I cast my own. I discard any bullet that doesn't cut the entire circumference. I haven't tried varying the powder loads though. My carbine will cut off cartridges loaded with 60 grains, but the rifle, if the cartridge is carefully constructed, will chamber 70 grains without cutting any paper if the cartridge is gently pressed tight as the breech block is closed. I use hair roller paper to close the back of the cartridge. I simply glue the cartridge to the bullet tail.

Curt mentioned how the ringtails he once used "spray" rather than group. I have that same observation when using my carbine, but the rifle does much better. That might be because it's a rifle and that the carbine cuts off what ever part of the load it can bite into and that is probably different for every shot.

Well, I guess $500 is a lot to spend for something that might work better as a towel rack than a rifle scope!

Harry

[Wagonrider]

The real problem with long range accuracy from a rifle musket seems to me to be from three things: stiff trigger pull, fouling, and inconsistent loads. I agree that a scope might not overcome these, but from strictly a shoot at the range non authentic standpoint I can't see where it would hurt either. I have a vernier sight on my Armi Sport Sharps and it helped my grouping at ranges of 100 to 150 yards. Beyond that the ammo and bullet issues begin to show up. I mentioned on an earlier thread that I like using sized ringtailed bullets over Hornaday Great Plains bullets, but trying to use an open sight means the quality of the ammo is often irrelevant when balanced against the other issues I mention.

I just sorta hoped that maybe a long tube scope might leave me with one less issue.

Harry

Harry, A stiff trigger pull can be overcome by yourself or a gunsmith performing a trigger job. I believe there is an article at the N-SSA web-site under the Northwest Territories section that gives a step by step process to accomplish this if you want to take it on yourself. Three different degrees of difficulty as I remember. If you are having fouling problems, you might consider changing your lube. One part beeswax to three parts crisco (all in liquid form) should give you the results you seek. The inconsistency in loads can be overcome by yourself. Weigh every charge. That way you are sure that everything is consistent. In shooting blackpowder, consistency is the key. Once consistency is achieved the only other thing to overcome is yourself. Respects K. Hanson