Replacing Civilian Weapons

[crowley_greene]

This thread spins off from another one in this forum about Kentucky long rifles, and some posts that made reference to a limited number of civilian rifles and muskets in the ranks that were soon replaced.

Actually, I do recall reading one book (An Untutored Genius) on Nathan Bedford Forrest that dealt with that same subject. The author is a PhD, and the work is extensively footnoted with references (just an attempt to lend a little credibility). According to this author, as late as 1864 when Forrest was having to raise troops the citizens were falling in with whatever they happened to have on hand -- shotguns, squirrel rifles, etc. But as some have already said in posts, these civilian weapons were replaced as soon as possible.

Is my memory faulty here? I may be remembering incorrectly from a book that I read almost two years ago.

It had crossed my mind some years back to purchase a civilian rifle (in addition to my Springfield) for selected events.

Murray Therrell

[Craig L Barry]

One of the chapters for "Wearing the Gray" (if it is ever finished) deals extensively with the use of civilian arms in the conflict, and there are many references to their use, especially in the western theater. I have images of receipts from various Confederate states showing purchase of private arms such as hunting rifles and shotguns.

Most events prohibit the use of these weapons regardless of time period portrayed.

[Blair]

Murray,

Please be kind enough to discribe, in your mind, What exactly is a Civilian Weapon/Firearm?

[crowley_greene]

Please be kind enough to discribe, in your mind, What exactly is a Civilian Weapon/Firearm?

Oh, I may have stumbled a bit in my vocabulary there. When I mentioned civilian shotguns and rifles in the original post, in my mind I thought of firearms that were produced primarily for hunting.

Murray Therrell

[Blair]

OK Murray, here is an example of what I am asking you,
Remington produces thousands of firearms under contract to the U S Government over many years and for many different Model firearms.
They also produce thousands of firearms at the same time for Civilian usage. Shotguns, Sporting Rifles, pistols and revolvers, etc., etc.
How would you define the differences in what the Military requirements were form what the civilians wanted?
This should be as easy, right?

[crowley_greene]

How would you define the differences in what the Military requirements were form what the civilians wanted? This should be as easy, right?

I'm afraid that I'm so unknowledgeable and uninformed in this area that I can only answer your question with questions of my own. Would shotguns have been produced for the military? Could it be that some number of civilian firearms might have been of smaller calibers than military firearms (seems like a .69 caliber or .58 caliber could make a fair mess of a rabbit or squirrel)?

Always interested to learn.

Murray Therrell

[Blair]

Murray,

This is your thread, surly you have some idea where you would like to see this go?
There is a lot of info that you can find by searching your local Militia Laws. Each Colony/State can vary quire a bit in different times.
I think you will find there is very little difference between Military and Civilian types of firearms. It will depend mostly on who bought them more than who made them and/or how they might have been used.
You asked about shotguns. Do you know the difference between a shotgun and a fowler or a smooth bore Musket?

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Not speaking for Herr Murray...

But I think he is thinking of the "civilian" rifles that evolved out of the late "Pennsylvania" and "Kentucky" eras after the end of the Black Hawk War where the need for a heavy, large calibre, large game and man killer was replaced with a squirrel or deer rifle for the gentleman hunter, target shooter, or farmer.

These nicknamed "Ohio Rifles" were typically smallish, light weight, full stocks but increasingly half stocks ranging from .30 to .40 calibre.

Just about every small town around here had a gunmaker making these things from the 1840's on.

Such as this one made by Hudson in Cincinnatti:



CHS

[crowley_greene]

. . . I think he is thinking of the "civilian" rifles that evolved out of the late "Pennsylvania" and "Kentucky" eras after the end of the Black Hawk War where the need for a heavy, large calibre, large game and man killer was replaced with a squirrel or deer rifle for the gentleman hunter, target shooter, or farmer.

Thank you. I think you sum up very well that which I was having some difficulty articulating.

Murray Therrell

[Blair]

Murray,

My point is that there are a lot of firearms made in the private sector, Civilian market, that the Military adopts for their use.
Example, Sharps Breech loading Rifles and Carbines. Sharps makes modifications to the standard firearm that will make them more desirable, serviceable to the Military such as bayonet lugs and sling attachments/swivels. Sharps are a civilian firearm.

When Berdan Sharpshooters exchanged their heavy barreled target rifles for a Colt Revolving Rifle or a Sharps Breech loading rifle they were in effect replacing one civilian weapon for another. Albeit the replacement may have been altered/modified at the request of the Military to better suit their needs.