Happy Fourth of July

[sbl]

Bill I think you mean that the people within those colonies were split three ways as most colonies added units both to the Continental Army and Loyalist units.

[FloridaConfederate]

Independence Day is not a martial holiday as Veterans Day or Memorial Day.

It is the People's day to celebrate our ancestors coming to arms and our Freedom derived from breaking free from the Crown. It is inexorably linked to the Constitutionally afforded Freedoms. It does not celebrate the Standing Army.

Which is why parades, festivities and such are civilian in nature, not military.

Feel free to assign whatever level of minutia you like to satisfy whatever your motivation.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[TheQM]

Bill I think you mean that the people within those colonies were split three ways as most colonies added units both to the Continental Army and Loyalist units.

Scott,

Exactly. In terms of our history, we want to put everything into black and white, while in the real world, everything is various shades of gray. During the revolution there were people who supported both sides and also lots of people who just wanted to be left alone; or maybe make a profit from both sides.

While Washington's army starved at Valley Forge, local farmers were selling their crops to the British army in Philadelphia. The English paid in gold, while the Continentals paid in promises.

[Rescue901]

Independence Day is not a martial holiday as Veterans Day or Memorial Day.

It is the People's day to celebrate our ancestors coming to arms and our Freedom derived from breaking free from the Crown. It is inexorably linked to the Constitutionally afforded Freedoms. It does not celebrate the Standing Army.

Which is why parades, festivities and such are civilian in nature, not military.

Feel free to assign whatever level of minutia you like to satisfy whatever your motivation.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

I agree the 4th isn't a martial holiday. It is the day when the founding fathers of our country told the good King of England to stuff it by saying we are a independant nation. Just don't ever forget that if it wasn't for the regular military and militia units that fought for this new country, last Saturday you would of been sitting by the tellie sipping tea and eating crumpets and oh btw that grand battle flag of the Confederacy along with the Confederate States would never have exsisted and this forum would be dedicated to something else.
Oh another thing. whispers The "actual" Constitution wasn't written until I believe 1784 and did not include the bill of rights until 1787, (Which I believe is the actual date the document was completed) waaaay after July 4th 1776 which is the day we decleared our independence from England hence the name of the holiday, Independence Day..

Hope every one had a great Independence Day, courtesy of our founding fathers and the men of this nations first army.

[my appologies for any grammar or spelling errors stupid work computer has no spell checker]

[sbl]

"....you would of been sitting by the tellie sipping tea and eating crumpets....."

Horrors!

[28thNY]

Somewhat belated, but happy 4th July from a Brit in the US.

[Southern Cal]

However offensive it may be to some, there is nevertheless a tradition of honoring all who sacrificed for liberty on Independence Day, including armed forces personnel, like it or not. If someone has a problem with that tradition, they can call their representatives in Congress and have it outlawed under the hate crimes bill.

In that vein, a particular Congressman recently offered an amendment to this pending legislation, including as a class of people covered under hate crimes statute, members of the military, in addition to the classes of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. The amendment was voted down by the majority party. Committing a crime against a soldier because they are a soldier serving their country is not hateful according to a majority in Congress. But don't do or say anything negative about certain other classes of people or you will be punished, not only for what you do, but for what you think, about some other special class of people deemed more equal than others.

More to the point, the Continental Army was formed by the Congress on June 14th, 1775, well before the Declaration of Independence. These eventually became trained as regular troops serving specified enlistments; not militia. After hostilities and the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1783, the Continental Army was disbanded on June 14th, 1783, with the exception of some units stationed at West Point, which became the nucleus of the standing U.S. Army.

The Continental Congress didn't get the British to leave by waving the Declaration of Independence at them. The historic record shows militia units certainly did their bit, but it was the regular Continental Army soldiers and allied professional French infantry who shot and killed enough British and their hirelings that the British finally were convinced that further hostilites were fruitless and eventually signed the Treaty of Paris in 1783.

It was the regular army that made the Declaration of Independence more than just so many fine sentiments written on a piece of paper. It was the standing military of that time who put iron in those words and is the reason why we even have an Indepence Day.

I served in the military at the tail end of the Vietnam War and service members were NOT honored or respected. Jane Fonda spoke at my college making disparaging remarks about our country and military. So I enlisted in the Army. Consequently, I make the most of any and all opportunities to show respect towards current and former military members for their service to our country. Anyone thinks that's wrong during 4th of July celebrations, you have that right to complain about it and even whine about it, but only because the military at several points in history, protected your rights.

U.S. Army Veteran, 4th Infantry Division.

[sbl]

Every country has armed forces. The strength of ours is that it stays within civilian and Constitutional bounds. George Washington set that tradition even before the Constitution was written. I'd be concerned if the US military ever became detatched from the citizenry and elected government.

[FloridaConfederate]

However offensive it may be to some, there is nevertheless a tradition of honoring all who sacrificed for liberty on Independence Day, including armed forces personnel, like it or not. If someone has a problem with that tradition, they can call their representatives in Congress and have it outlawed under the hate crimes bill.

I must assume this is directed at me. I am not saying anything remotely of the sort which you assert here. You really stretch it to read into my post as a slight of servicemen to our Nation. Independence Day is a civic holiday to which there are many historical occurrences of military involvement nationwide. There are as many that have no martial aspect and are by fine Americans just like you and I, and it doesnt mean or detract anything from thier view of our servicemen ?????

I'll argue about a lot of things, but there is nothing to argue here.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Southern Cal]

The 4th of July is not courtesy of the US military. It is a celebration of independence gained by citizen soldiers taking up arms against a standing army. There is no martial aspect. There was no formal standing US Military at the time.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Nothing to argue here? The post above reads like an argument to me...

I didn't direct anything at you personally. Sorry if you feel that way. Please ignore my off-point rant about our current Congress and how they 'diss' our military while passing laws giving more than equal rights to classes of people deemed victimized or powerless by the politically correct. Perhaps such a rant is better off in the Whine cellar.

To the point, I used the historical record to contradict your argument above about there being no martial aspect (to Independence Day) since there was no formal standing US military at the time (of the Declaration of Independence). The record shows there was indeed a formal standing US army at the time the Declaration of Independence. The Continental Congress formally voted to raise a regular standing army and formally voted George Washington as it's commander, a year before the Declaration of Independence. Congress knew a collection of militia couldn't effectively oppose the British in the field. If there wasn't a formal enlisted Contintental Army, there would be no Independence Day to celebrate. Therefore, in context, the remark about the holiday being coutesy of the US military (of that time) makes perfect sense

I never saw any of your remarks as derogatory towards the U.S. military, just factually off about the existence of an American standing army at the time of the Declaration of Independence. I've seen Jane Fonda speak abusively about the U.S. military, and thankfully sir, you aren't any Jane Fonda.

Long live the present resurgence of State Sovereignty.