NCO Swords

[50th VA Corporal]

I have seen a few postings in the past about NCO swords and their general lack of actually being used. I have also seen posts stating the NCO's (Sgt's in particular) should not wear them to re-enactments.

I guess I would be poised to ask a few questions:

1) Has anyone observed period photos of sergeants on either side wearing them? If so, under what circumstances?

2) Under what circumstances did the NCO's actually wear them; parade, etc.?

3) Lastly, why is the hobby in general against NCO's wearing them?

Jas. T. Lemon
50th VA Corporal

[KeystoneGuard]

Jas.
From the research I have done they were typically worn by the orderly sergeant on up to sgt. maj. however I have not found to many photos of them actually wearing them probably due to the fact they are major trip hazards. I own one, but rarely use it even given the right circumstances.

[hendrickms24]

This Wet print of Levi Carr and Sgt. Maj. Elisha Hunt Rhodes show Elisha wearing his NCO sword.

[DamYankee25]

Jas.
From the research I have done they were typically worn by the orderly sergeant on up to sgt. maj. however I have not found to many photos of them actually wearing them probably due to the fact they are major trip hazards. I own one, but rarely use it even given the right circumstances.

I agree, I've done some research into the use of NCO swords over muskets and it is a tough thing to find a lot of documentation on. I wish I had some of that research here at work. But there are pictures of Orderly Sgt's with them and without them. It is my feeling that if I was going to be in a position as the Orderly Sgt and I would be going into combat with my men, I'd take a musket with me, I know I'd like having the option of shooting back. That NCO sword is a trip hazard and is doesn't seem like it would be an effective combat weapon in close quarters.

I've attached a picture of the 4th USCT and their orderly sgt. is brandishing his NCO sword. I wish I had more of my pictures at hand.4th-usct-1.jpg

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Here are a few NCO swords being worn by Sergeants in the 25th NY, a regiment that, by all accounts, scoffed at regulations at every level of command, from top to bottom.

While not the best weapon, keep in mind that a Sergeant can, at any time, have to step up to platoon/company command, and other than the fact that you'd be shouting orders and standing in a new spot, a makeshift badge of rank is there at your hip if you need it to identify yourself to your men as their new boss.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

A messy dish this...

The Revised 1861 regulations avoid the topic. 1512 specifies a plain, black leather sword belt for all non-commissioned officers under SWORD-BELT but then ignores any sword under SWORD AND SCABBARD.
The NCO sword is listed in the 1861 US Ordnance Manual as well as the CS clone.

And then there are those pesky vounteers, as well as parade versus campaign, and who is strick and who is lax.

As a result, once can find the more rare images of a variety of NCO's wearing the M1840 sword from corporals on up through sergeants (versus way more field images of those NCO's without).

CHS

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

I found that like many things with regulations governing them, practice and regulation may indeed conflict. You'll find plenty of pics of them being worn, and plenty without, so it would all depend upon the impression. I would also agree that it seems that it was orderly sergeants and sergeants major predominately. I remember a great story about swords from the 19th Indiana in a book I read (the name escapes me until I get home to look at the library), but as the sergeant major had just been promoted prior to the battle they were engaged in at the time, he had not received his badge of office (the sword). A group of confederates were captured by elements of the regiment, and the sword and belt of a full colonel were taken from him and handed over to the sergeant major, much to the chagrin of the officer from whom they were liberated. I've seen photos in "Military Images" magazine showing sergeants major carrying field and staff swords, private purchase swords, and several wearing junior officer frocks and other private purchase garments as well.

[50th VA Corporal]

My interest in this was generated when I was promoted and was given an NCO sword. I had wondered when or if I would ever be given the opportunity to even wear it or would it become a closet trinket.

I did not intend to wear it into battle - especially since I had spent all last year's winter allowance purchasing a new musket and then having it defarbed (!) - but wondered when I delivered my company report to the Lt. Colonel prior to battalion parade.

Whilst I do see reproduction NCO baldrics and scabbards on the market my Confederate NCO sword has the metal scabbard requiring a sword belt. I have seen at least one maker producing a "Confederate Sword Belt" that is set up for this type of scabbard.

One of the things I have not seen on the battlefield are officers utilizing the "j" hook on their sword belt to secure the scabbard when on the march. I did read in the regulations that this was a requirement. I guess just another rule not to be followed......?

Jas. T. Lemon
50th VA Corporal (not actually a corporal anymore but I like the sound of it)

[pvt_jb]

That pic of Elisha Rodes as Sgt Major is in the book All for the Union.

He is wearing a foot officers sword and not an NCO sword.

This supports what Ross was talking about with Sgt Majors wearing a mix of officer/private items.

[baker36]

I agree, I've done some research into the use of NCO swords over muskets and it is a tough thing to find a lot of documentation on. I wish I had some of that research here at work. But there are pictures of Orderly Sgt's with them and without them. It is my feeling that if I was going to be in a position as the Orderly Sgt and I would be going into combat with my men, I'd take a musket with me, I know I'd like having the option of shooting back. That NCO sword is a trip hazard and is doesn't seem like it would be an effective combat weapon in close quarters.

I've attached a picture of the 4th USCT and their orderly sgt. is brandishing his NCO sword. I wish I had more of my pictures at hand.Attachment 1820

I was reading through my history book looking at all the civil stuff and that same picture of those black soldiers is in there