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Thread: Can campaigner numbers ever rise?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJAir
    I can give you some insights on that, Bill. It has to do with some pretty serious acts of duplicity, deception, character assassination, and various other indicators of serious social maladjustment. Call if you want details.
    I got a private email from someone else who got dumped from the original Burkittsville organizing committee who castigated me for "not telling the whole story" (I will omit his rather childish actions after he was bounced from the committee). I concede that you both were both treated badly. Certain individuals behaved as they typically do-- only more so-- and this is part of the reason why campaigner events have dwindled. I've already lamented here and on the AC forum how some of the best and the brightest have left because of infighting (some of the malefactors have left or are leaving, too, but that doesn't off-set the "brain drain").

    But your personal travails don't change the fact that the first Burkittsville was among the best progressive events of the past few years, due mostly to its creativity and variety, but partly to the fact that its novelty: a progressive event that didn't require a perfect kit or any campaigner experience. Whatever happened behind the scenes, the results for the rank & file were:

    1.) marching over pristine ground (not THE march route, but conceivably very much like the original);

    2.) a lovely setting that time has passed by (the village of Burkittsville and many of the buildings in the outlying country);

    3.) a battle (too short for many, but historical) on the original ground, scripted to come out the way it did in the history books;

    4.) no blowing of "Taps" and all getting up and shaking hands, but the dead and wounded carried off the field on litters (unusual at the time).

    5.) authentic civilians who put on a hospital scenario that brought tears to the eyes of some observers because of its realism (impressions and "acting," not blood and guts);

    6.) a prisoner scenario that, despite some wrinkles, has not been recreated to my knowledge.

    It had warts, too (camping under a street light Saturday evening, and essentially nothing happening Sunday morning, leading to a gradual bleeding off of most of the participants).

    Does a superior event justify you and your colleague being mistreated? No. But I live in the corporate world, and sometimes bad things happen to good people, with a result that's better overall.

    And you and I both should recognize that event organizing isn't always a pretty sight. We both worked on "Into the Wilderness," and I saw many of the event's warts up-close and personal. In fact, I don't think I am speaking out-of-turn to say that most of the senior Federal officers came away angry and disillusioned, both with the way that the CS forces operated, and with the way the CWLHI ran the event. We expressed our concerns to you privately for the most part, and it looks like from recent communications I've seen that we won't be repeating our participation at any high level in the next Recon.

    But our dissatisfaction was not shared by the Federal rank & file, who came away from the event happy and feeling they'd gotten their money's worth. So on a certain level, it doesn't matter that you were misused at Burkittsville, or that I feel the CWLHI made serious mistakes in the way it organized ITW. The participants of both events had a great time, and that's probably what counts.

    It's tough to think of the "greater good" when you're having a lousy time, but that's probably unavoidable with organizing a good event, and probably why so many of us quit after awhile.
    Bill Cross
    Treasurer, The Rowdy Pards

    'In the end, it's the history, stupid. If you can't document it, forget about it. And no amount of tomfoolery can explain away anything that makes history (and living historians) look stupid and wrong."

  2. #102
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    Default One of the Best Parts of ITW

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Cross
    We both worked on "Into the Wilderness," and I saw many of the event's warts up-close and personal.

    But our dissatisfaction was not shared by the Federal rank & file, who came away from the event happy and feeling they'd gotten their money's worth. or that I feel the CWLHI made serious mistakes in the way it organized ITW. The participants of both events had a great time, and that's probably what counts.
    Ah yes ITW despite getting our collective arses kicked I loved it. I was wet hungry and tired and loved being on original ground. Best parts were

    1) being from China, ME
    2) construction of the most worthless shebang ever (it attracted rain)
    3) on Sunday am in our battle line having our Captain saying if those f*******confederates come across that stream and break scenario again fix bayonets and hold your ground they did'nt and we did'nt but our hands were on them. Kind of makes the RM issues safety issues seem minor. Did'nt know if you knew about that one.

    Regards

    Frank Lilley
    aka Hiram Walker, 7th ME China that is

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWL
    Ah yes ITW despite getting our collective arses kicked I loved it. I was wet hungry and tired and loved being on original ground. Best parts were

    1) being from China, ME
    2) construction of the most worthless shebang ever (it attracted rain)
    3) on Sunday am in our battle line having our Captain saying if those f*******confederates come across that stream and break scenario again fix bayonets and hold your ground they did'nt and we did'nt but our hands were on them. Kind of makes the RM issues safety issues seem minor. Did'nt know if you knew about that one.

    Regards

    Frank Lilley
    aka Hiram Walker, 7th ME China that is
    Hey Frank, me again <g>

    I think it was at ITW that your other friend from China started calling me Red Karl. My AAR actually referred to the bayonets, desertion, and a few other things, but it was one of the other things that created the controversy at the time. But I don't take issue with you.

    It occurs to me -- and I'm wondering what some of you others think -- that the whole premise of this thread is a little off. I mean, why ask how we make "Campaigner" numbers rise? What's a "campaigner" anyway? Where do you go for your merit badge and who hands them out? I really want to know, because they need to make writing with a dip pen part of the final authenticity exam.

    These labels have some utility for describing events, though the event standards themselves are a better indicator. It's when we start applying labels to individuals that we wander, sooner or later, into the realm of cliquishness, back-biting, insult, and recrimination.

    So maybe the question ought to be, how do we increase the number of "campaign" events, and the number of people attending them?

    That's a little more interesting. If you live where I do, in the DC area, there are more attractive events than you can reasonably attend in a season. Some are more authentic than others, but there's a goodly number across the spectrum.

    How do we get more people to the more authentic ones? I think there are two issues. The first is the greater problem afflicting the hobby -- the changing distribution of income in this country and erosion of the middle class can't help but affect the number of men with the money and vacation time necessary to portray a civil war soldier. The number of men who want to is probably also affected by the fact that we have a real war going on.

    The second issue is openness and, dare I say, friendliness. I believe that both you and I got to Rich Mountain via "Company I," Bedford Village and various LR events, and the willingness of more advanced reenactors to not just tolerate but cheerfully welcome us. There's a lot to be said for that. As long as the number of folks who call themselves campaigners are substantially outnumbered by those who don't, units like that, and events like Burkittsville '01 and ITW, have an important place in the hobby.

    BTW, Bill -- while the senior Federal officers at ITW may not support future CWLHI events, the administrative staff will be pleased to soldier on with them.

    For the record -- just in case anyone wondered -- I am not now nor have I ever been a "campaigner." I have stated before and will repeat again that I am a Midstream Regressive Complainer.

    Those who know me know exactly what I mean.
    M. A. Schaffner
    Midstream Regressive Complainer

  4. #104
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    Default humm

    Having been involved in most if not all the events listed, I can say it is not always an easy ride, mistakes get made, I made some, others did too, but it is recognizing them and moving past that truly matters.

    BTW- off topic- Campaigner Numbers are growing, by leaps and bounds, and the CVG is working hard to be "freindly" campaigners and welcome those who are looking to "give it a try"

    At Shenadoah 62 we had about 19 with us, and we hope to have a large turnout both for the Sharpshooter Camp of Instruction at Pamplin in September and then at Perryville in October. One blue, one gray.

    One thing I have enjoyed in the hobby, is seeing the "light bulb" come on, and work with folks along their authenticity journey. In fact that is one of my favorite parts of the hobby. During my time in the LR we had a great track record of that, and we have dedicated oursleves to that with the CVG.

    Yes there are those who do nothing but tear down people, units and events, but there are far more into building and helping others. And there are far more progressive events to come than ever before.

    Keep the faith and move out!

    Pards,
    Last edited by Anders; 08-03-2006 at 09:53 AM.
    S. Chris Anders
    Southern Division
    www.southerndivision.org
    www.rearrank.com
    www.marylandmymaryland.org

    There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. - Niccoló Machiavelli, The Prince. 1537.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Schnapps
    The second issue is openness and, dare I say, friendliness. I believe that both you and I got to Rich Mountain via "Company I," Bedford Village and various LR events, and the willingness of more advanced reenactors to not just tolerate but cheerfully welcome us. There's a lot to be said for that. As long as the number of folks who call themselves campaigners are substantially outnumbered by those who don't, units like that, and events like Burkittsville '01 and ITW, have an important place in the hobby.
    This is an interesting point and I wonder how much of it is a perception over reality thing. I suspect that there are anecdotes illustrating both the mean hardcores and the cheerfully welcoming ones but that by and large the reality is that those who prefer the c/p/h way of doing things are in the latter camp. I know I am. Perhaps that's because I was welcomed with open arms when I joined the Columbia Rifles. I didn't know a soul in the group but the CR leadership made me feel at home. There was some vetting of course but mostly with respect to positive attitude and willingness to learn.

    To give my own anecdote, earlier this year I was approached through these fora by a long-time mainstreamer who was looking to try a c/p/h event, namely, Rich Mountain. He told me of the upgrades to his kit and his study of the triad (material culture, methods, man). It was also evident that he had a positive attitude about trying something new. I knew he'd be a good fit and would have a bully time with us and told him so. In fact, I told him he'd probably be surprised at how much fun he'd have.

    In Co. B at RM we had guys made up Potomac Legion units (like the CR and Company I) plus numerous guests from as far away as Colorado and Minnesota. The best way to describe them is that they take reenacting seriously but not themselves. It makes for a great combination where newcomers with good attitudes fit right in and quickly realize that the big bad hardcore preconception just doesn't hold up -- at least with these guys.

    This new guy at Rich Mountain had a great time and was a great addition to our company. I hope he joins us again. I'm sure there are many other guys who want to give c/p/h side a try but not sure how to go about it. All it takes is an email and an introduction. With the right attitude, I've found that c/p/h'ers are more than happy to give a newbie a chance to experience it.

    I know others have expressed these same sentiments before but sometimes they bear repeating. Now, back to work I go!

    Receptively,
    Last edited by YankRI; 08-03-2006 at 09:58 AM.
    Michael P. Jolin

  6. #106
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    Default Numbers Who Me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Schnapps
    Hey Frank, me again <g>

    I think it was at ITW that your other friend from China started calling me Red Karl. My AAR actually referred to the bayonets, desertion, and a few other things, but it was one of the other things that created the controversy at the time. But I don't take issue with you.

    It occurs to me -- and I'm wondering what some of you others think -- that the whole premise of this thread is a little off. I mean, why ask how we make "Campaigner" numbers rise? What's a "campaigner" anyway? Where do you go for your merit badge and who hands them out? I really want to know, because they need to make writing with a dip pen part of the final authenticity exam.

    For the record -- just in case anyone wondered -- I am not now nor have I ever been a "campaigner." I have stated before and will repeat again that I am a Midstream Regressive Complainer.

    Those who know me know exactly what I mean.
    Dr. Schnapps I presume. I'm sure your AAR on ITW was excellent. I had a very good time at that event. My memories of Ned Smith cooking sweet potatos in molassas in the rain will stay with me a long time.

    I have a bit of a different take on the numbers. I actually hope they don't rise. I would be very happy if the biggest event numbers wise was equal to RM. I don't know what the numbers were for ITW but they may have been similar. As far as what a campaigner is, its the question with no answer. Its the discussion that counts. In grad school we biologists would debate whether or not a virus was a living thing. That almost lead to fist fights (hint again no right answer)

    See you at Bull Run 2

    Regards

    Frank Lilley
    Sore Foot Mess
    Detached Again

  7. #107
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    In grad school we biologists would debate whether or not a virus was a living thing.
    What about prions?
    Thomas H. Pritchett
    Moderator, Military & Other Business Conferences
    www.campgeiger.org

  8. #108
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    Default Not

    Quote Originally Posted by tompritchett
    What about prions?

    Not living no metabolism, but then this is a civil war forum, so I'm not supposed to know they exist.

    regards

    Frank Lilley

  9. #109
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    Hey, enough of the jokes, this is a serious hobby where people threaten each other, sabotage events, back-bite and assassinate characters. No having fun allowed!
    Bill Cross
    Treasurer, The Rowdy Pards

    'In the end, it's the history, stupid. If you can't document it, forget about it. And no amount of tomfoolery can explain away anything that makes history (and living historians) look stupid and wrong."

  10. #110
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    Is a tomato a fruit or vegetable?
    William L. Shifflett
    Valley Light Horse

    http://www.valhallastablesvirginia.com/calvary

    "We are still expecting the enemy. Why don't he come?" -JEB Stuart

    In Memory of 3 Sox, 4th Va Cavalry horse, my mount, my friend. Killed in action January 9th, 2005.

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