C.S. General's Staff

[ElijahsGrtGranddaughter]

After spending time this past weekend at the 145th GAC, I began to wonder if women were allowed to serve on the C.S. General's Staff and if so, in what capacity? And how would I volunteer?

Kind Regards,

~Kerri

[Robert A Mosher]

After spending time this past weekend at the 145th GAC, I began to wonder if women were allowed to serve on the C.S. General's Staff and if so, in what capacity? And how would I volunteer?

Kind Regards,

~Kerri

M'am -
I regret to say that the answer is unequivocally no.

Robert A. Mosher

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

On very rare occasions there were documented cases of commanders or staff officer's wives being in a winter camp or other garrison situation where they might cook or serve at certain settings or functions, but I've never seen any case on either side of the war where a civilian female would be officially attached to a staff for any function. The military camps were quite harsh places in the best of circumstances and women, outside of laundresses, a very few sutlers and viviendieres, and occasional visitors in a controlled setting, would not be a part of it.

[ElijahsGrtGranddaughter]

M'am -
I regret to say that the answer is unequivocally no.

Robert A. Mosher

Thank you Mr. Mosher, but can you tell me why?

When the C.S. General's Staff was doing their closing presentation in Tent 2 on Saturday, there were 2 young women that I noticed standing among their ranks.

~Kerri

[ElijahsGrtGranddaughter]

On very rare occasions there were documented cases of commanders or staff officer's wives being in a winter camp or other garrison situation where they might cook or serve at certain settings or functions, but I've never seen any case on either side of the war where a civilian female would be officially attached to a staff for any function. The military camps were quite harsh places in the best of circumstances and women, outside of laundresses, a very few sutlers and viviendieres, and occasional visitors in a controlled setting, would not be a part of it.

Mr. Lamoreaux,

Thank you for the explanation sir. I appreciate the time you took to explain to me the reason why there is no place for a woman on the General's Staff.

Kind Regards,

~Kerri

[Robert A Mosher]

Thank you Mr. Mosher, but can you tell me why?

When the C.S. General's Staff was doing their closing presentation in Tent 2 on Saturday, there were 2 young women that I noticed standing among their ranks.

~Kerri

Historically speaking and at it's simplest it was because the mid-19th Century world was one run by and for men to whom it never occurred that a woman would be able to or would want to take up a soldier's occupation. For most of the 19th Century, soldiering was considered a trade taken up only by those incapable of any honest work, too poor to be able to pursue any honest trade, or who were hiding out from the law or even serving in the army instead of in prison. The armies of our Civil War, being mostly volunteers were exceptions because of the causes for which the two sides fought and most importantly because the soldiers of both armies expected to go home as soon as the war was over.

As has also been pointed out - soldiers were expected to be able to fight and to kill and while trying to get close enough to the enemy to do that they were expected to march to the battle on foot (sometimes with no socks or even shoes), to carry everything they needed for that task on their backs, to go without baths or any other creature comforts, eat bad food when they could get it, and to sleep right where they dropped themselves on the ground. As I said, it never occurred to the men of either the Union or Confederate armies (or of any of the armies of Europe of the day, and nobody else's armies mattered then) that women could or would want to take up such activities - thus, it never happened.

[This is not to say that women were not on ocassion found in close proximity to a military headquarters, but never in any capacity more official than wife - and the army leadership invariably tried to get women such as Florence Nightingale, Clara Barton, or Dorthea Dix as far away as quickly away from their headquarters as humanly possible]

Robert A. Mosher

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Mr. Lamoreaux,

Thank you for the explanation sir. I appreciate the time you took to explain to me the reason why there is no place for a woman on the General's Staff.

Kind Regards,

~Kerri

Perhaps your question is not phrased for what your'e asking.

You asks if "women could be on the General's Staff"...to this the answer is no, because women were not allowed to be soldiers or officers...and with a very few examples of honored "nurses" titles/appointments...this wouldn't change for many years following the war.

Perhaps, the question should have been phrased as:

Could Women ever have been found in the company of the General Staff?

Paul B.

[ElijahsGrtGranddaughter]

Perhaps your question is not phrased for what your'e asking.

You asks if "women could be on the General's Staff"...to this the answer is no, because women were not allowed to be soldiers or officers...and with a very few examples of honored "nurses" titles/appointments...this wouldn't change for many years following the war.

Perhaps, the question should have been phrased as:

Could Women ever have been found in the company of the General Staff?

Paul B.

Paul,

My apologies, that is exactly what I was trying to convey. Thank you for that.

So, my question is this, Would Women ever have been found in the company of the General's Staff and NOT be considered women of convenience?

Kind Regards,

~Kerri

[ElijahsGrtGranddaughter]

Mr. Mosher,

THANK YOU Sir, for that. But I realized too late that it was the way in which I was asking my question that was netting me the wrong answers.

In today's polite society, our world of reenactors so-to-speak, would they allow a woman, not looking to be a soldier, to be a part of the General's Staff? In a mainstream event, for polite conversation, accompanying any general to a function, cooking a period correct meal, etc.

I hope that helps clarafy what I was looking for.

Kind Regards,

~Kerri

[Pvt Schnapps]

Don't know about the Confederate army, but occasionally, as has been mentioned, you might find a woman honorably associated with a senior officer in the field on the Union side.

The Princess Salm-Salm comes to mind: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=950DE1D81730E132A25756C0A9629C94 689ED7CF

Apart from that, the question is basically the same as the general issue of women portraying men. Units have different perspectives and individual women are variously skilled at undertaking the impression.

Of course, "variously skilled" applies to the rest of us as well. :)

[Robert A Mosher]

Don't know about the Confederate army, but occasionally, as has been mentioned, you might find a woman honorably associated with a senior officer in the field on the Union side.

The Princess Salm-Salm comes to mind: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=950DE1D81730E132A25756C0A9629C94 689ED7CF

Apart from that, the question is basically the same as the general issue of women portraying men. Units have different perspectives and individual women are variously skilled at undertaking the impression.

Of course, "variously skilled" applies to the rest of us as well. :)

I should have known that if ANYONE brought up the Princess it would be you, Schnapps!!

I would only point out, though, how well her service worked out for Maximilian among others!

Robert A. Mosher

[Pvt Schnapps]

I should have known that if ANYONE brought up the Princess it would be you, Schnapps!!

I would only point out, though, how well her service worked out for Maximilian among others!

Robert A. Mosher

Hey, she did pretty well for little Agnes Joy of Montpelier, Vermont. Is this a great country or what?

[Robert A Mosher]

Mr. Mosher,

THANK YOU Sir, for that. But I realized too late that it was the way in which I was asking my question that was netting me the wrong answers.

~Kerri

I beg to disagree - they were not wrong answers, but they did not answer the question you were trying to ask.

Elsewhere on the forum is a discussion about diversity in reenactment units - I think they got that wrong, it should say simply "diversity in reenacting." The historical record shows us that the Civil War involved men and women of multiple races in roles as both soldiers and civilians.

Having followed that discussion, I think that personally the standards perhaps should be a bit different. For most military roles, the requirement should simply be that the individual be required to convincingly portray a male officer or soldier. I find that most of the events I attend follow "the five foot rule" that has been discussed with regard to women who want to attend as soldiers. However, to portray a staff officer or any similar post would perhaps be even more challenging because few women are likely to be mistaken for men while speaking, especially when using "command voice" with a large formation. While a staff officer's normal duties need not include commanding troops, the casualties and confusion of battle often leave them with no alternative either because they have to replace some one who has been killed or wounded or because the general they serve has ordered them to take command of particular unit for a specific task that needs to be carried out immediately.

The questions of race become more complicated - there were some black officers in Union Army units, but relatively few. The majority of black soldiers were found in the US Colored Troops or regiments like the 54th Massachusetts. The fact that Asians were also found in the Union Army's ranks has also been discussed elsewhere. This does not rule out the likely possibility that blacks served in other units but most such individuals were probably "passing" as white.

Ultimately, the real answer is that you can do anything that an event or a reenacting unit will allow you to do. However, the better you do it the more satisfaction you are likely to derive from it and the fewer objections you are likely to hear from other reenactors.


Robert A. Mosher

[Bummer]

There were numerous occassions where women; wives, relatives, friends, etc. were in the company of a staff or even field officers--photographic evidence bears this out--usually in the more calmer backwater situations, but not always. For example; General Francis Barlow's wife Arabella accompanied the general to Gettysburg...and spent some anxious time wandering in the town among the retreating XI Corps trying to learn the location and fate of her general (he was greiviously wounded in the first day's fighting), and ultimately rounded up a horse and rode the field under flag of truce in order to find him.
A civilian woman, dressed as a relative of an officer could well be seen in the company of a staff. Not common by any means, but not the least unheard of either.
As folks here are saying though, in today's 'armies' it all depends on the group...and the historic evidence you can come up with in order to convince them to allow you to accompany them.
I do wish you luck in your endeavour.

[yerbyray]

When Colonel Lamb was assigned to Fort Fisher in NC he brought his young bride with him. He constructed a beach cottage for her just a short distance to the north of the wooden wall along the wagon ruts going towards Wilmington.

It is conjecture but well reasoned conjecture that she visited the fort and was seen with her husband numerous times. I seem to recall that he would come and take meals and sleep at the cottage when there was no threat.

I bet she enjoyed the night the Fed's decided to cook off the bomb ship they experimented with.

[ElijahsGrtGranddaughter]

Thank you for the instances where a Lady was found among the General's Staff.
But since I am not looking to 'wed' or 'snatch up' a General nor his aid, I was looking for a position of duty, NOT the soldier type though, on the Staff.

A scribe perhaps, a message runner, spy, could also double as a cook, a tentative listener, confidant, or a caretaker, etc.

Would the Modern day Living History type General's camp have a position like this?

~Kerri