Cartridge Packet

[captain_kirk]

Gentlemen,
I need to know how to cut the paper for the 10 round packets that are tied with twine that fit in the bottom compartment of the cartridge tins.
Your servant,
Captain Kirk

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

By "how" do you mean dimensions?

If so, .58 cartridge bundle wrappers were 6 1/2 X 9 inches according to the 1861 U.S. Ordnance Manual, page 270.

CHS

[Silas]

Follow this link (http://www.zipcon.net/~silas/links.htm#N_17_) for links to several articles about the packages.

Gilhams also has information about producing cartridges in paragraphs 57-63 (http://books.google.com/books?id=xmw9kXUyOlcC&printsec=frontcover&#PPA49,M1). I didn't notice anything about bundles, but the above link does contain links to making bundles. I cite Gilham because it's a handy reference that many people have yet to explore.

[90thOHCoG]

"Rocket paper?" (Item 61 in Gilham's).

[TheQM]

"Rocket paper?" (Item 61 in Gilham's).


"Rocket paper" also shows up in the instructions for making the individual cartridges in the 1856 Ordnance Department Report on Small Arms. They used three pieces of paper for the rounds, the cylinder case, the cylinder wrapper, and the outer wrapper. The cylinder case was to be made of stiff "Rocket paper". I have no clue what rocket paper was and have had no success finding out what it might have been. The outer wrapper was to be made of #3 paper, while the wrapper was to be made of #1, 2, or 3 paper.

[Army30th]

I have seen reference in a military dictionary that rocket paper was originally used to wrap the projectile to keep it from becoming rifled while it was being loaded and BEFORE it was fired.

That same tome mentioned that it also prevented the movement of the bullet while the weapon was being carried.

Any other theories??

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

"The Watchdog" printed an excellent book on cartridges by Patrick Reardon of the Lazy Jacks in the UK of which he made mention of the paper used in actual cartridges. Unfortunately I can't find the book for the life of me amongst the mess from moving, but I do remember that it is mentioned that the closest modern equivilent is 3M Painters Paper. You can find that in rolls at most hardware or painters store. It is a light brown color, and it is thin but strong enough for the rigors of creating proper cartridges. It was an epiphany for me, and now I roll all of my rounds using those tips. The same paper was used to create the outer wrappers for the bundles as well.

[Army30th]

You can buy it at Harbor Freight for about 4 bucks a roll.

[TheQM]

I do remember that it is mentioned that the closest modern equivilent is 3M Painters Paper. You can find that in rolls at most hardware or painters store.

Ross,

This answers the question of the Outer Wrapper. It doesn't help with what exactly was "stiff Rocket paper". I have to assume this paper was oil resistant, since it was important to keep the lubricated bullet away from the powder charge.

Bill

[jurgitemvaletem]

Ross,

there are several colors of 3M paper. Which does your source say to use?

[Army30th]

I can answer this one.....

you want the paper that's the color of a paper lunch bag. (as in brown bagging)

[Army30th]

Bill,

The rocket paper was one piece of rectangular paper wrapped inside a longer rectangular trapezoid to make a cup for the powder to sit in, and as a separator for keeping the powder and bullet from touching. It was stiff enough that in order to release the bullet from the paper, you had to strike the cartridge case against the muzzle of the gun in order to break it open and press the bullet inside.

Prior to this, my understanding is that the paper and bullet went in together to keep the bullet from moving around inside the barrel. A patch, if you will. The improved design above, made using a paper patch unnecessary.

[tater]

Here is an excelent article on making cartridges, by Patrick Reardon, of the lazyjacks mess. In it, is the dimensions and the weight for the paper to be used.


http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge.htm


Revised.
http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge2.htm

Hope that helps.

[captain_kirk]

Gentlemen all,
Many, many thanks for those that sent me either a picture or a diagrham of a jig for wrapping cartridges in to packages. Some of you know that I am now using a 3/8" dowel to roll my cartridges. I have arthritis in the hands and fingers and just can nor reach down into the tins. Our division requires tins. The 3/8" dowel produces a cartridge approximately 70-72 MM in length and they rise above the tins. Here is the good part! I can now load 27 cartridges in each tin for a total of 54 rounds "upstairs". I fiddled with the package jig sizes and can make a package of 15, that is five across and stacked three high, and it slips easily into the basemant. That is a total of 84 60 grain rounds in my box!! Thats a lot!!
Kirk

PS I can recall back in 68 and 69 carrying 21 loaded magazines of .223 Colt with 19 in each magazine on my web belt or 5 pouches. All M-16's were full "rock and roll" in those days, and you could burn 400 rounds in less than five minutes. For you stitch and round counters who count 399, on initial loading, I inserted a 19 round mag. then removed and put one more back in the mag. One extra round could the one you needed most. By the way M-14 ammo was a lot heavier and many less rounds at 300.