Not the Average Enfield Defarb Question

[TobiasJones]

Yes, I have read a ton of Enfield Defarb threads but I have a slightly different question.

I am interested in having my Euroarms Enfield defarbed by the Blockaderunner. I emailed and asked about the barrel bands and whether they were replaced but the response was that they were "re-shaped." I emailed again to ask for pictures and have received no response but it's ok, I understand a busy work environment. So I thought I would ask the masses: What does a re-shaped Enfield barrel band look like? If anyone has any experience with this service or have pictures, you're help is much appreciated.

Evan O'Dell

[jademonkey]

Tobias,

Not familiar with re-shaping Euroarms bands, but in this thread you will find a whole pile of original barrel bands to compare with yours.
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92908#post92908
I was under the impression that when a euroarms enfield was defarbed the bands were simply replaced, but I could be incorrect. See the above thread to what the originals looked like. Good luck,

[brown30741]

A couple of thoughts that may or may not be worth your time.
An endorsement just appeared elsewhere
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17478

However, Geoff Walden suggested that the reshaping process left a little to be desired, in general, but was not critiquing Mr. Watts' work.
http://authentic-campaigner.com/articles/walden/enfauth.htm

I have seen it done a few times by amateurs, and the bands looked so much better than type fours, but not perfect. It is your taste and again, I have not seen the work of a professional of Mr. Watts caliber.

[Craig L Barry]

The bands are filed at the base to more closely resemble the Palmer style but they are not quite as long at the bottom where they join as the originals. There is not quite enough material there. However, I have seen several sets of these on Euroarms Enfields Todd has de-farbed and they are pretty good, I would say they are passable.

The Armi-Sport uses an imitation of the Palmer band on their repro P53, and it is a slightly more correct appearance but these bands are incorrectly case colored and additionally they are not likely to work with the Euroarms. Original bands may or may not fit either. You could put $150 into middle and lower barrel bands and not be able to use them (the top band is correct as is). In a project of this sort, you have consider your options and how much you want to spend. Getting the Euroarms "Baddeley" typle bands reshaped into a pretty good facsimile of the contractor type Palmer bands is probably the most economical way to go and still get a reasonably accurate appearance. Keep in mind it is hard to make a silk purse of a sow's ear. A reproduction Enfield can only be taken to a certain point with accuracy modifications. It is still going to be about a lb or lb and a half too heavy no matter what you do...

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Just to add...

I have noticed, over the years, varying degrees of "workmanship" on the ArmiSport band "shoulders." Meaning, they are often seemingly sloppily done, reflecting differing degrees of crispness, radius, direction, and depth even on the two sides of the same band.
(Not that sets of orginals do vary "Enfield to Enfield" as the Birmingham and London trades were not "interchangeable." But sometimes on the AS bands all six shoulders are slightly different on the same gun.)

I take a few minutes to rework the shoulders with a very small "rat tail" file, repolish smooth, and then remove the incorrect cyandide gas pseudo color case hardening and heat blue them.

CHS

[rebfed1862]

I had my Enfield De-farbed by Todd Watts, he does excellent work, and the barrel bands looked good. Just my 2 Cents!!

Don Woods

[captain_kirk]

There are too many subject and too little time to study and barrel bands etc. are not on my list. I have an armi sport for the battlefield and two Parker-Hales for the range which I have owned since the early to mid 70's both have low serial # . Other than the varnished stocks, how do the real Parker-Hales match up?

[Craig L Barry]

Although the Parker Hale is also the 4th type, and a copy of the British Army RSAF version, they are better in quality than what it is being produced now. For example, the weight is closer to the original P53 Enfield specs, the barrel is actually .577 caliber and the stock has a more correct shape around the lock mortise and other small details. Both Euroarms and Armi Sport copied the Parker Hale (and not an original P53) when producing their own versions. They even copied the mistakes, and in Euroarms case, they copied the P-H stamp which is still visible on the inside of the lock assembly.

That said, to produce a facsimile of the US Civil War "Birmingham" contractor P53 there is just about as much "retroverting" necessary(making a 4th type back into a 3rd) as the Italian copies, you will just have a better gun when you are finished. It is much easier to make a LA Co out of one of these. The swivels, bands and other hardware are basically "correct" as is. If you have a Birmingham made Parker Hale from 20-25 years ago, count yourself among the lucky. They are among the best made repros in the hobby. The Armi Sport US 1842 musket is also very good.

[Jim Mayo]

I have worked over my early Parker Hale into a Birmingham over a period of years. I would do a little at a time. It started with replacing the lock washers and I recently just finished cold blueing the replacement bands. It is done!

It was time consuming but the end result was worth it.

However, If I had known what I know now and that Todd Watts could do the lock plates so well I would have made it a LA Company gun. The only thing that may be difficult to do is the London Arms stamp on the stock.

Here is what is left of a London Arms Company Enfield after it was blown up in the Crater. The date on the stock is 1862. Good verification that LA Co. guns were coming here in 1862.

[Craig L Barry]

Oh, the LA Co original lock just drops right in the Parker Hale like it was made for it. In fact, I recently bought an original LA Co 1861 dated lock plate off eBay for $25, built the lock with original and P-H replacement parts, and put it in my son's Parker Hale P53 (serial number 47xx). Works like a charm. When doing a LA Co, you just have to take things "off" and not add much of anything. A very easy de-farb job.

Jim

Did you notice on the stock for that LA Co 1862, is the "2" is in the year off just a little bit? It is on some I have seen which is because LA Co stock stamp was 186_. And they changed the last digit when the year changed over. Some are not spaced exactly or as straight, cool huh?

[Jim Mayo]

Craig: Picture is worth a thousand words.

[Jim Mayo]

Showing the lock screw eustachen.

[Craig L Barry]

Right, and the original LA Co had the same Baddeley bands as the RSAF from which the P-H is copied. It is inexpensive and easy to turn a EoA or an older P-H into a very decent looking LA Co. It surprises me how many guys have these de-farbed into a Birmingham Tower P53, though. One underrated method of improving the repro lock is removing the date/letters taking care not to dish the lock plate, leveling the plate from the crown forward and having a trophy shop engrave LA Co over whatever date you want, and V*R under the crown. Then re-case color it. A piece of cake. Maybe cost you $15. Instructions for restoring the case coloration is in "The Civil War Musket", (IIRC). The advantage of course with using a good original lock is that it has an original hammer, which looks 100% better than any of the reproductions.

Larry Stevens does the LA Co stock stamp for $10. Doing the London Armoury P53 is simply the least expensive way to a de-farbed Enfield and very few guys go that route.

[Jim Mayo]

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/p53-enfield-pattern-musket-2.htm

For those who may not be familiar with a London Arms Company P53, above is a link with lots of pictures.