Colt Wedge Screw???

[ziggy2000]

Another newbie question for Lt. French and the rest of you: What is the purpose of the "wedge screw" on the Colt Navy and Army models??? The Navy example I have came with the screw missing, and the previous owner said it "had no purpose" and was OK without it. Indeed, the wedge did fit very tightly and appeared to do it's job of holding the gun together, but I bought a replacement anyway. Now that I've installed it, it really looks like it doesn't do anything - it doesn't hold the wedge in, and it doesn't need to be removed (or even backed out) to take out the wedge - tapping sharply with an appropriate (i.e non-metallic) hammer will remove the wedge to allow disassembly. So... why is it there???

For the record, my Navy repop is (I think) a Pietta, 3rd model, wedge is installed from the LEFT side, screw is above the slot, wedge lip down. Thanks!

Marty

[Bummer]

When you slide the wedge out it of the barrel assembly it is way too easy for it to pop completely out and get lost--a lot of original Colts don't have their original wedge any more (they are serial numbered). Anyway, notice on the wedge spring the little lip on the end of it? That keeps it in the barrel assembly tight. And when you slide it out to take the barrel assmbly off that same lip stops against that screw head which keeps it from sliding all the way out and most likely eventually getting lost. A screw is much simpler to install than some kind of lip arrangement being machined in the barrel assembly.

[bob 125th nysvi]

of times without the screw and you'll find out what it is for.

I own one. Wouldn't live fire it without the screw because I really don't feel like having the front end fly off and then find out I'm missing the wedge as well as the screw.

Not to cast to large a shadow of doubt on the previous owner but he either didn't fire it enough or he lied. They weren't put on the originals for decoration you know.

Like today's weapons manufacturer the boys building them wanted to make as much profit as possible and an unnecessary screw wasn't a 'fancy frill' it was a necessary expense.

[ziggy2000]

I want to stress that I don't think the previous owner was trying to mislead me in any way. He told me before I bought it that it had never been live fired to his knowledge. I intend to use it for live fire, and I wanted to be absolutely sure of the safety factor. The pistol was shipped to me disassembled, and I think it was an honest mistake that the screw didn't get put in the box. He has since contacted me and offered to mail it, so everything is OK. Thank you for your answers and concerns!

Marty

[Craig L Barry]

This would be funny, if it weren't potentially so dangerous. You did well to determine the purpose of the wedge on your Colt repro before firing it. Kudos. The previous owner should do us all a favor and not get within 50' of a firearm unless he knows a bit more about how it works.

You remove the wedge to break the pistol down for cleaning, etc.

[ziggy2000]

I never intended this to become a bash on the previous owner. And it was never the function of the wedge itself that was called into question, only that of the wedge SCREW - which apparently does nothing but keep the wedge from flying off into oblivion when removed for said cleaning, etc.

Yes, repeated firing could probably work the wedge loose - but the screw does nothing to counteract this effect! I can tap it far enough through to completely remove the barrel without backing the screw out even a quarter turn. So it seems to me that frequent examination of the wedge during repeated firing (with live rounds or otherwise) is necessary with or without a wedge screw present.

On second thought, maybe I should just get a Remington... :p

Or two... :D

[Jas. Cox]

....

On second thought, maybe I should just get a Remington... :p

Or two... :D


I have one (or more) of each (Colt style and Remington style). ;)

Remington is easier to remove cylinder and less time between shots if one has more than one cylinder. The Colt breaks down to a smaller size and easier to soak (IMHO). So you're justified in getting both ... um ... just for period accuracy. Yeah, that's it.

[1stTexas]

Wedge screws are more trouble than they are worth.

The wedge has a spring loaded catch in order to retain the cylindder pin in the barrel under the stress of firing. You must use a small hammer and punch to remove the wedge even it it does not have a screw. IMO, the wedge screw serves no purpose, except to complicate cleaning.

After a someone discharges all six shots of his BP revolver and reloads the cylinder, they should always check the wedge by pushing on it with their thumb just as a routine. I fire my Colt Walker 44 with 45 gr. 3F, my Army and Navy Colt 44 revolvers with 25-30 gr. 3F BP and I don't used Wonder Wads or grease to seal the cylinder. And I have either lost or discarded the wedge screws years ago.

It is kinda like riding a bicycle. After you learn how, you don't need training wheels.

[cavsgt]

Jerry
Do you top your cylinders with something like cream of wheat?
Phill

[federal musician]

I would like to ask a question from the viewpoint of all the infantrymen who are reading this thread to learn something about weapons we do not use.

I gather that cream of wheat is used to completely fill the chamber so the blackpowder cannot set set off by an adjacent chamber when it is fired (please correct me when I am wrong) - I have would like to know is what is the consistency the cream of wheat is when you use it? Do you make it at camp or is it brought premade from home?

You would be surprised at the number of people who ask me this question. I would like to be able to answer them.

Thank you

Frank Long

[GaWildcat]

Frank,

The cream of wheat is dry and uncooked. It works as a filler, and helps prevent chain fires

[Jas. Cox]

Frank,

The cream of wheat is dry and uncooked. It works as a filler, and helps prevent chain fires


The Cream of Wheat also gives an extra visual effect as it shoots out. It wouldn't be used if you were actually shooting lead on a range, etc. In those cases many people use other things like Wonder Wads, plain white Crisco other lubricants or nothing. Because there is no lead projectile (One obviously cannot fire lead at a reenactment), especially in a revolver, the powder would just fall out when the weapon was tilted down if there was nothing to pack it down like the Cream of Wheat. Sure you can pack down the powder, but it gets loose quick.

Many, if not all, events ban the use of Wonder Wads for this use as they will shoot out the end of the barrel with force and could put an eye out or cause other injuries. Safety first. And yes, one is never supposed to point a weapon at another person, but it happens.

As for chamber fires, there is argument over if the fires start from the front, in which case a lubricant, Wonder Wads, etc. would be necessary or if they start from the back through the nipple, in which case they serve no purpose for preventing chamber fires. But there is argument for the lubricant to make cleaning easier. And although a chamber fire wouldn't be good in any case, it is less of a concern if there is no lead in the weapon to be discharged and coming out of a place other than the barrel.

But basically your questioned was already answered, Cream of Wheat is used in its dry, powder form. :D

[1stTexas]

Jerry
Do you top your cylinders with something like cream of wheat?
Phill

I have neveused Cream of Wheat except for breakfast. I was raised on that stuff.

I have never fired a blank load in any of my revolvers, but since I am in a Infantry unit and am not an officer, I am not permitted to carry a revolver at reenactments. I really don't know what I would be permitted to use for blank firing a revolver at a reenactment. I suppose anything dry that would not be considered a projective would be permitted to hold the powder in the cylinder. I suppose spit or beeswax would be better than Cream of Wheat because Cream of Wheat would pour out just as easy a powder unless you moistened it. A 24 ga. shotgun overshot cards would be a good plugs to use in a 44 cal. cylinder. I don't see how they could be considered a projectile but neither would cotton balls in a musket.

The muskets used at the reenactments must be carried with the barrel pointing upwards after they are loaded with BP. No wadding of any sort is allowed. I have secretly used cotton balls in my P53 Enfield rifle musket so the musket can be handled and carried in any manner without pouring the powder out of the barrel. If the Ordinance Sergeant found out, I suppose I would be banned from future reenactments or at least repremanded.

[GaWildcat]

I have secretly used cotton balls in my P53 Enfield rifle musket so the musket can be handled and carried in any manner without pouring the powder out of the barrel. If the Ordinance Sergeant found out, I suppose I would be banned from future reenactments or at least repremanded.

You would in this neck of the woods!!!

[Frenchie]

Jerry,

So you think the wedge screw on a revolver serves no purpose and you pack a cotton wad on top of the powder in your musket. Who the **** is running your outfit?

[GaWildcat]

What events to you go to?? Just making sure Im not "attending the wrong events"

[michael.shafto]

In my opinion, every piece that comes with a weapon should be used on the weapon, weather it seems to serve a purpose or not. I know from experience that screws get lost, broken, etc... so I have extras on hand that are fitted to my weapon. 99 times out of 100 the wedge will stay in place, but why chance the 100th time when the wedge flies out.

In regard to the wonder wads, cottonballs, etc...not only are the risks extremely high of becoming a projectile, but you also run the risk of starting grassfires. Nothing ruins an event like a local fire department brush truck having to come contain a small blaze. Why would anyone be given a command that could result in the charge being dumped? I can think of only two positions in the manual of arms (trail arms, and one where the rifle is slung upside down on the shoulder. I am not Infantry, so please correct me if I am wrong) that require the barrel to be inverted, and neither should be done with a loaded weapon anyway.

Besides Cream of wheat and lubricant, there are those who use cartridges to load pistols. It is much more authentic than carrying 2 or more cylinders, easier to do on horseback, and dosent require a flask which a hot pistol can turn into a very primitive but very effective hand grenade. i am looking forward to trying them when I return.

Again, this is just my opinion. Have a SAFE and enjoyable reenacting season!

[hanktrent]

Why would anyone be given a command that could result in the charge being dumped? I can think of only two positions in the manual of arms (trail arms, and one where the rifle is slung upside down on the shoulder. I am not Infantry, so please correct me if I am wrong) that require the barrel to be inverted, and neither should be done with a loaded weapon anyway.

Pedantic nitpick, not meant to interrupt the main conversation: There's also "secure arms," to be used when standing picket in the rain, something a reenactor might need to do with a loaded weapon through no fault of his commander. The few times I've had to stand picket, it's not been raining, but I've always wondered, what do you do?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Silas]

I can think of only two positions in the manual of arms (trail arms, and one where the rifle is slung upside down on the shoulder).

You're a cavalry guy, so I'll cut you slack. However, the infantry guys should know better that there is no position in the manual of arms where the weapon is slung upside down. I recall an entire thread on the a/c devoted to the "sling arms" issue. The short answer is that the muzzle goes upwards when slung.

That's no big deal for Springfields, but for Enfields, that's not a very comfortable position. Being easier to sling Enfields with the muzzle down instead of up, it's created a reenactorism that "at will" means any comfortable method of carrying the weapon. Being more comfortable downwards than upwards and being that so many folks to it, it must be in the manual. Or one of the manuals.

It's not.

[Bummer]

When arms are 'at will' they can be carried as comfortable--as long as the muzzle is elevated. Check your manuals, they all say that.

As for the Enfield and the awkward way the sling is, I have no idea but perhaps the British army allows them slug muzzle down? I don't know but it's a thought. Any of you Anglophiles out there have anything on that?

[michael.shafto]

You're a cavalry guy, so I'll cut you slack.

Thanks, I do appreciate that!

[Dave Myrick]

A few points of clarification and edification here.
Mr. Colt intended for the spring in the wedge, to retain the wedge in its place when assembled. It should not need to be drfited out with a hammer, punch, puller or any other tool. The screw it intended to retain the wedge when it (the wedge) is withdrawn and the revolver is broken down.
The modern reproductions have lost this concept and rather then function as intended, the wedge is far too tight, relegating the retaining spring useless ornamentation. A little work with some small files can restore this to its intended fucntion however.

A properly loaded revolver does not need any sort of wad to keep the blank powder charge retained as intended, be it cream of wheat, wonderwads, or whatever. The act of compressing the powder firmly into the chamber results in more than compaction to prevent it from getting loose and faling out. I have loaded my revolver Friday evening using paper cartridges with nothing but powder, ridden all weekend without the opportunity to fire it, only to have to clear it Sunday at the close of the event, before the journey home by discharging it. The blanks were still firmly seated, so firmly that the owder could not be dug from the chambers.

Dave Myrick

[Frenchie]

Agreed, well-packed black powder will stay in place without any wads to hold it in. I was once asked to remove the powder from a revolver cylinder and I needed my cone pick and several minutes of work to get it all dug out.