What would you say???

[jgr1974]

A man and his lady are walking down the street at a local event parading in front of God and everybody proud of there new duds!

The lady is wearing a dress made from the curtains of her "mansion", a nice woven tapestry material of burgandy and gold. The dress is trimmed with lace from a dress that was long ago worn out. The recycled lace a bit tattered but still appealing to the eye. Her underpinnigs the sheer material that once lined the curtains. Her sash a woven rope that once was a tieback for the curtain. Here hat a constructed of paste board covered in felt, adorned with the carcass of a ringnecked pheasant. Her slippers are made from carpet that once adorned her lovely entry way.

The man bedecked in a shirt of striped ticking, and trimmed on color and cuffs of the same trimming his wife has upon her dress. The material of the shirt coming from their very marrige bed. His trousers made from a woven hemp and cotton material wich used to adorn the masts of a blockade runner. His shoes are hand hewn wooden soles the uppers are of dog hide pinned to the soles with wooden pegs. His hat a crochet item with short brim. The yarn is woven from rat and horse hair.

Seem like a set of "farbs"? Maybe something out of "Gone With The Wind"? Well pretty close! I have been reading a book I purchased from an auction house known as Ebay. It is titled "Ersatz in the Confederacy". (This is one great book!) The description of the two love birds above are very similar to citizens described in war torn Vicksburg. Remeber hearing of eating rats and dog? Well, it is not just an oriental cuisine. Anyone wanting to expand ideas for the hobby ought to read this book!!! Also intesting is the food eaten by those we try to emmulate! How many Southron reenactors are eating sweet potatoe's. (Did you know the whole plant is edible?) How about a nice substitute for coffee of ground okra seed??? (This was a favorte of General Jackson!)

If you first scoffed at the description of the pair above, or want to improve your impression-I urge you to read and study more!!! Research materials are out there!!! The book I mentioned above would be a good start for soldier and citizen alike.

[Sarah Jane Meister]

Sounds like an interesting book! It's amazing how thrifty and creative people can be when they need to.

Sarah

[hiplainsyank]

sweet potato coffee is a not bad substitute, either.

[tompritchett]

sweet potato coffee is a not bad substitute, either.

I will eat grits and sweet potatoes if I absolutely have ton but, unfortunately I got burned out on both from my eating in my high school cafeteria. However, if you ever want to have a food fight in the lunch room, based upon my experience, sweet potatoes are the perfect choice for a weapon. :twisted:

[TimKindred]

Sweet Potatoes.... mmmmmmm.......

One of my fondest memories is scrounging the fields around the harper Gouse at Bentonville for leftover sweet potatoes on the ground. We found some, amd peeled them, then cut them into 1" thick slices and fried them in the grease left over from our salt pork. With some stronh coffee, it made an excellent breakfast on a frosty morning.

I trily believe that sweet potatoes, along with coffee and bourbon, are some of mother nature's most perfect foods.

[mboyce]

I always have a little sweet potato in the haversack if I can find one. I even have some dried and roasted in my coffee sack. They are much more filling and sustaining than that irish variety.

[Poor Private]

Heres what I would say "Howdy folks, I would like to meet your interior decorator."

[Privateer]

How many Southron reenactors are eating sweet potatoe's.

Just about everybody I know. Sweet potatoes aren't all that exotic. ;) As for eating the whole plant - I'd say that's pretty rare. lol. :D

[trappedonrr]

I guess I could start a new thread with this.

When I was a teenager I met a WWII POW. This man showed me pictures of when they rescued him. You could see all his bones.

He told me there is nothing you will not eat when you are starving. He didn't have shoes because he ate the leather. And if there was a mouse, it was up for grabs among the soldiers.

I am certain that situation was back in the 1860's.

[BigDuke634]

Privateer, eating the sweet tater vines and all isnt as rare as you might think. My wife eats them a lot. Of course she is from the Philippines, and it's common there. Heck, go to an Asian food store and you'll see all sorts of stuff that you never thought was edible.

[hanktrent]

Here hat a constructed of paste board covered in felt, adorned with the carcass of a ringnecked pheasant.

I'm trying to figure that part out. The ring-necked pheasant we typically think of was just introduced to California in 1857, and never did get much of a foothold in the deep south. There may have been some raised in domestication as exotics, but I don't know how common in the blockaded deep south. "Pheasant" alone was also a period name for the ruffed grouse, which would make more sense as a local make-do substitute for more typical imported feathers like marabout or ostrich, but it didn't have "ringnecked" in front.

I searched the google books text of Ersatz in the Confederacy, which is partial view for reading but should have the whole text searchable, and couldn't find pheasant, carcass, or anything to locate that phrase.

So what bird would that be describing? Where would it have come from? What would be the blockade/ersatz significance?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Pvt Schnapps]

I'm trying to figure that part out. The ring-necked pheasant we typically think of was just introduced to California in 1857, and never did get much of a foothold in the deep south. There may have been some raised in domestication as exotics, but I don't know how common in the blockaded deep south. "Pheasant" alone was also a period name for the ruffed grouse, which would make more sense as a local make-do substitute for more typical imported feathers like marabout or ostrich, but it didn't have "ringnecked" in front.

I searched the google books text of Ersatz in the Confederacy, which is partial view for reading but should have the whole text searchable, and couldn't find pheasant, carcass, or anything to locate that phrase.

So what bird would that be describing? Where would it have come from? What would be the blockade/ersatz significance?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

That also raises the question of whether the quote came from a war-time source or a memoir written some years later. If the latter, then one would expect a certain amount of exaggeration, even satire.

A couple of other details stand out, too. Using sail cloth for clothing supposes that the blockade runner for some reason didn't make the return journey, yet wasn't captured or sunk by the US government, nor recycled by the CS government for its own purposes. Knitting yarn from rat hair seems a bit excessive when there are bound to be more plentiful sources of fibre, such as shedding dogs. I think my wife's working on a pug-fur sweater as we speak...

[Memphis]

Were they also using an ancient episode of the Carol Burnette Show for documentation? Her GWTW spoof is excellent.

[tompritchett]

Her GWTW spoof is excellent.

I loved her use of the curtain rod as shoulder boards.

[flattop32355]

I think my wife's working on a pug-fur sweater as we speak...

Should it happen to rain at Bedford this weekend, and you are wearing that sweater, I shall be very happy indeed to be residing in other quarters. ;)

[Pvt Schnapps]

Oh it won't be ready by then. Plus it's not for re-enacting. Although pugs have a long and illustrious history in Europe, they were not a particularly well-known breed in the US until after the war, and thus would not be PEC. Maybe at a mainstream event where there are fewer breed-nazis.

Or for 16th century reenacting. It was at the siege of Hermigny in 1572 that William the Silent's pug Pompey alerted his master to a night attack, or camisado, of Spanish troops. Having saved the Prince's life and the fortunes of the House of Orange, the pug became a favorite among the Dutch and later the English nobility.

Luckily for William, though he may have been Silent, his pug was not.

It is also said that before Napoleon met Wellington, the most serious check received by the Emperor was from Fortune, the pug of Josephine de Beauharnais.

But I digress.

[Pete K]

The curtian dress was designed by Bob Mackey, the famous Hollywood fashon designer. He often felt his joke was one of his most well known "originals". I still laugh when is see that skit in re-reuns!

[Regular3]

The curtian dress was designed by Bob Mackey, the famous Hollywood fashon designer. He often felt his joke was one of his most well known "originals". I still laugh when is see that skit in re-reuns!It's still one of my favorite skits ... "Scarlett - that gown is - gorgeous!"

"Thank you. I saw it in the window and just couldn't resist." :lol:

But seriously, while my memory isn't what it once was as I approach middle age, ;) I was sure I remembered reading that a dress made from curtains was in fact among the holdings of the Confederate Relic Room in Columbia, South Carolina ...

[CandaceRose]

A man and his lady are walking down the street at a local event parading in front of God and everybody proud of there new duds!

The lady is wearing a dress made from the curtains of her "mansion", a nice woven tapestry material of burgandy and gold. The dress is trimmed with lace from a dress that was long ago worn out. The recycled lace a bit tattered but still appealing to the eye. Her underpinnigs the sheer material that once lined the curtains. Her sash a woven rope that once was a tieback for the curtain. Here hat a constructed of paste board covered in felt, adorned with the carcass of a ringnecked pheasant. Her slippers are made from carpet that once adorned her lovely entry way.

The man bedecked in a shirt of striped ticking, and trimmed on color and cuffs of the same trimming his wife has upon her dress. The material of the shirt coming from their very marrige bed. His trousers made from a woven hemp and cotton material wich used to adorn the masts of a blockade runner. His shoes are hand hewn wooden soles the uppers are of dog hide pinned to the soles with wooden pegs. His hat a crochet item with short brim. The yarn is woven from rat and horse hair.



Are you saying this particular quote is from "Ersatz" or is it from another source? I have my copy handy and after searching the Index and skimming the chapter on clothing, I can't find it!! What page is it on??

At any rate, I agree it's a must read for anyone contemplating a rural Southern impression.

[jgr1974]

To even the playing field, I made a generalization on the outfits. They were based on what I read in the book. Our ancestors however did recycle household items and clothes. I am just curious reeanctors would accept someone who attended an event in these fashions??? After all it would be historically correct. I was just wondering what the sttch counters would say.
Because you know we all need to lookk alike!

The Mad MIck!

[CandaceRose]

Now, now, now...let's be nice!!! You might be accused of making a generalization about generalizations!!

Yes, the scenario as you have laid out is entirely possible, according to Ersatz. The key is to drill down into the primary sources as cited in the book to determine the original context of the quote or example. I love books like Ersatz and "Mothers of Invention" as it gives us good starting grounds for later research. For example, when we were studying citizens of Mufreesboro for our LH at Stones River, we saw quotes in "Mothers" from Alice Ready, Mattie Ready's (John Hunt Morgan's wife) sister, concerning her feelings towards the Yankee occupation. Our interest was so piqued we used the cites to track down a copy of her original, handwritten transcript and ordered that for our research. It's one thing to read someone's diary, it's another to read it in their own handwriting. How cool is that???

[jgr1974]

Well I must appologize I was making generalizations. This is really against my character!!! I myself am tired of military life for those reasons. I am working on a "refugee" impression. I am straying from the military for those reasons!!!

I think alot more research could be done on these matters. Not only for historical purposes, but for modern life. I think that we are heading down a road of our own demise in today's society. It would not hurt any of us to study these tribulations for they may be upon us as well, but that is yet another story!!!

The Mad MIck!

[flattop32355]

I am just curious if reeanctors would accept someone who attended an event in these fashions??? After all it would be historically correct. I was just wondering what the stitch counters would say.
Because you know we all need to look alike!

There's a great difference in what civilians in a compromised situation in a war-torn area might be wearing and what soldiers, Federal in particular, would be wearing as uniforms (hence, the term "uniform"). It's kind of an apples/oranges situation; the comparison really doesn't hold up because the civilians are on their own, while the soldiers (supposedly) are being supplied by their government, where standardization is a goal, not a luxury.

As for myself, a fence straddling Federal mainstreamer, it would probably cause a couple different reactions. My initial one would be some degree of surprise, because I would not have been expecting such a sight. That may well be followed by admiration for their ingenuity and adaptability to their situation. That may well be followed by a desire to keep an eye on them, since they are obviously devoted to "The Cause" to go to such lengths, and are proud of it, not being ashamed to appear so in public.

I'll hazard a guess that they may well receive a more non-receptive response from certain parts of the mainstream than from the more "authentic" folk, depending upon the circumstances of their appearance and the scenario being portrayed for civilians. Overall, probably a mixed reaction.

[hanktrent]

I made a generalization on the outfits.

Well, that explains the ring-necked pheasant. :) Which also shows that this kind of impression isn't as simple as it looks.

One thing to consider is that the point of make-do civilian items was to fit in and not stand out, unless one was trying to make a deliberate political statement, which seemed to occur more early in the war than late.

And done well, most of those clothes wouldn't stand out. For example, by coincidence, I have a pair of trousers made out of white hemp-cotton canvas, like those you mentioned. No story about the blockade runner's sail to go with them, but they don't look any different from any other trousers. Carpet slippers? No big deal, though they might be a little more typical around home than at a ball. The dress of curtain-size floral designs? This original isn't ersatz:
http://www.bustledress.com/cgi-bin/z.pl/item.lisa1006.html

What would stand out in the period, I think, are the subtleties. A pasteboard and felt bonnet instead of professionally made buckram and velvet, for example. But in reenacting, so many reproductions are already home made, that unless you hold up most of the reproductions against originals, there's not that subtle but visible difference between the "real thing" that everyone was used to before the war, and the substitute.

What would stand out the most in the impressions you describe, I think, is the incongruities--and those would be things the people in the past would be aware of too.

For example, a man in a loud hickory overshirt escorting a woman in a silk brocade dress... Why? Where are they going? They're aiming at two different norms.

I'd say, first, he'd try to get a white bosom and collar of some kind on his shirt, and not choose contrasting-trimmed hickory stripe. If his coat is worn out and they're going to dinner with other upper class friends, he might choose a frock coat of homespun woven by his own slaves and dyed from the butternut trees on his own plantation. Some of the early-war southern politicians wore homespun suits proudly. Or pull out his grandfather's "long tailed blue" with brass buttons. Or wear his old black frock coat even if it is green on the shoulders. Or in some way, try to aim for the norm expected at dinner.

On the other hand, if they're going someplace more suitable for everyday or work clothing like he's wearing, where a hickory shirt would be the norm, the classic homespun dress and slat bonnet would make sense on her, or some sort of ersatz that aims for a practical and/or informal look, rather than fancy silk.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[jgr1974]

Hank thanks for being polite but critical!!!

I would say if it was a carefully researched impression it would be great!!! Maybe not to the extreme of the entire outfit, but maybe some supplemented pieces!!! Thank you for setting me straight with the birds, the book just refers to a winged creature-I don't quite remeber the wording. I just used the pheasant because it is a common bird in my area. You still can learn something new everyday!!! I have researched military for some time, now time to learn about being a citizen!!! I am learning slowly but steadily.

It is interesting you using the term "hickory" when refering to cloth. You are the first reeanctor I have heard to use it-of course I have been away from events for awhile. I have been doing some study recently on production type clothing, and have come across the term several times. Including an invetory of equipment heading west for the Gold Rush. It was used in regards to four shirts. I know this is to include denim material, but did not know it to be striped material or ticking as we know it. Is this in refference to the weave type or attributed to the wear of the material?

The Mad MIck!

[hanktrent]

Hank thanks for being polite but critical!!!

That's what I want on my tombstone. "He was polite but critical." ROFLOL!

It is interesting you using the term "hickory" when refering to cloth. You are the first reeanctor I have heard to use it-of course I have been away from events for awhile. I have been doing some study recently on production type clothing, and have come across the term several times. Including an invetory of equipment heading west for the Gold Rush. It was used in regards to four shirts. I know this is to include denim material, but did not know it to be striped material or ticking as we know it. Is this in refference to the weave type or attributed to the wear of the material?

I always thought the name was due to it being as tough as hickory, but don't really know. I suppose the weave could resemble the seat of a hickory-cane chair, but that's pure speculation and hopefully I've not just invented a new bit of folk etymology!

I've heard it used by reenactors and seen some civilians in hickory shirts. It was a hard-wearing striped fabric, usually blue and white, so I thought that a southerner who cut up the bed to make a shirt would be aiming in that direction. Here's a good post by Carolann Schmitt on the subject: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44506&postcount=13

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[jgr1974]

Hank

Thanks for the link I always love reading research material!!! I have heard hickery used for shirts only as well. It was in the same context as the material was "to wear as tough as hickory". I like your idea for the weave of a hickory chair, but like you I would believe it to be a"fantasy" description. It is also rumored that word "hick" is derived from this cloth, as lower class laborers were suspected of wearing these garments

As for the tombstone my friend, let's hope it is a long time before the undertaker cometh!

The Mad MIck!