Lee's opinion of McClellan

[wilber6150]

I was doing some research when I came across this quote from Robert E. Lee


"Asked then who was the ablest Federal general he had opposed throughout the war, Robert E. Lee replied without hesitation "McClellan, by all odds.""

This got me wondering what was it about him that made General Lee think so highly of him. Was it his great ability to rebuild the army physically and materially or more importantly the morale of the troops; or was it his tatical skills.. Though McClellan was a inept as a fast striking offensive minded officer as mentioned by President Lincoln in this quote


I said I would remove him if he let Lee's army get away from him, and I must do so. He has got the slows, Mr. Blair."

In the mode of defense, however, he countered many of Lee's moves as shown in the Seven days campaign, and also suprised Lee with his speed in the response to his first attempted invasion of the North.. Though, having a copy of Lee's orders certainly didn't hurt :)

So my question I'd like to put out on this forum is what qualities about McClellan do you think Lee was admiring that placed him above say Grant..

thanks

[flattop32355]

I'd like to know the source and the context of Lee remark. I'm not doubting the remark is accurately stated, but I'd like to see it within its original text. That could possibly have a strong bearing on what he meant.

[FloridaConfederate]

I guess if it was said in 64' an argument could be made that Marse Robert was a "cross over" (hmmmm ain't that familiar ?) supporter as Mac was running against Ole Abe...a Dem in the WH with no stomach for the fight would have been pretty attractive to me even if he was one of "those people".

Or who better to tout as the el General Supremo than one whose arse you whupped all over the Peninsula ?

[wilber6150]

Interesting,
trying to run down the source of this quote, I found another source which attributes it to John Mosby, here seems to be the complete quote, but I will have to find another source to break the tie on who actually said it...


In 1867 John Singleton Mosby, was interviewed in the Philadelphia Post about the merits of the different generals in the Union Army during the American Civil War.

Whom do you consider the ablest General on the Federal side?" "McClellan, by all odds. I think he is the only man on the Federal side who could have organized the army as it was. Grant had, of course, more successes in the field in the latter part of the war, but Grant only came in to reap the benefits of McClellan's previous efforts. At the same time, I do not wish to disparage General Grant, for he has many abilities, but if Grant had commanded during the first years of the war, we would have gained our independence. Grant's policy of attacking would have been a blessing to us, for we lost more by inaction than we would have lost in battle. After the first Manassas the army took a sort of 'dry rot', and we lost more men by camp diseases than we would have by fighting."

[FloridaConfederate]

what qualities about McClellan do you think Lee was admiring that placed him above say Grant..



His ability to retreat and leave lots of dandy stuff in his wake.

They way he drug his feet.

Then McClellan followed soon, both with spade and balloon,
To try the Peninsular approaches,
But one and all agreed that his best rate of speed
Was no faster than the slowest of slow coaches.

[FloridaConfederate]

Ok Colonel I'll buy that. He was the consummate administrator.

Fits my modern experience with administrators. A lot of administration. Little action.

[wilber6150]

Granted, all very true..But I doubt that Lee ,the gentleman, had sarcasim in mind when he wrote that.. :)

[wilber6150]

I did find another characterization of McClellan from Memoirs of Colonel Mosby

McClellan was a soldier of great organizing ability and trained in the science of war - I mean in those operations that can be regulated by rules. But he had none of the inspiration that decides and acts instantly, and he was now confronted by a condition without a precedent. So he was helpless.

This keeps with the tone of the first statement, so I'm of the opinion that it might have been said by Mosby and not Lee but it is still it is interesting what this Confederate general thought of his adversaries..

[reb64]

So my question I'd like to put out on this forum is what qualities about McClellan do you think Lee was admiring that placed him above say Grant..

thanks


Mac didnt waste men, mac fought by rules and expected his foe to do the same. he wanted to win with honor, and keep cities and civil bodies funconing, not blood letting scorched earth.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

In the mode of defense, however, he countered many of Lee's moves as shown in the Seven days campaign, and also suprised Lee with his speed in the response to his first attempted invasion of the North.. Though, having a copy of Lee's orders certainly didn't hurt

I think you've covered this ground on this forum before. Mac didn't counter Lee's moves during the Seven Days--the Army of the Potomac's corps commanders and division commanders did. Mac was not present at any of the Seven Days battles, so how could he counter anything Lee did? Those battles were all mushed-up messes on both sides; accidental collisions of forces more than they were truly on purpose by the opposing commanders. Mac was not only a poor offensive commander, he wasn't a very good defensive one. He was not actually present on the field at any of the batltes in which his forces fought, from Rich Mountain through Antietam.


So my question I'd like to put out on this forum is what qualities about McClellan do you think Lee was admiring that placed him above say Grant..

Lee's purported remark has always mystified me. I would have thought that Lee probably respected Grant the most, because Grant beat him.

[Danny]

I suppose what McClellan felt about Lee was more significant - he was scared as h ell of Lee. It didn't help that 'lil Mac couldn't muster much personal angst against the Southern cause either.

Grant, however, simply wasn't afraid of Lee and knew he could defeat him (Lee was, after all, badly defeated in his first field command of the war).

Grant certainly knew what he was up against, and he understood the high quality of Virginian military leaders generally. He used three of them himself on the way to defeating the Confederates; by following the (Anaconda) strategy of Scott and utilizing the field command ability of Thomas and the naval acumen and cooperation of Farragut.

Dan Wykes

[reb64]

Mac was not only a poor offensive commander, he wasn't a very good defensive one.

Lee's purported remark has always mystified me. I would have thought that Lee probably respected Grant the most, because Grant beat him.


Mac actually won or was winning battles. he just didnt do it in a deciive enough enough manner, he was to civll for the blood letters in washington, who ound their dogs of war in grant and othes. with mac th ewar may have ended more amicably.

[wilber6150]

I think you've covered this ground on this forum before

Actually it was a post on the AC about Lee replacing Jackson during the same campaign..

[Danny]

Mac didnt waste men, mac fought by rules and expected his foe to do the same. he wanted to win with honor, and keep cities and civil bodies funconing, not blood letting scorched earth.

Or, to put it another way; Mac didn't actually use his men, fought more by his rules, and expected his foe to do the same despite the example of the Kansas fracas only a few years before. And he wanted to win as much, maybe more, for personal honor, expecting somehow that could be done without the blood letting option required of the killing profession.

That said, apparently Mac created and equipped the greatest army on Earth up to that time, and it's possible the North might have lost without his genius.

Dan Wykes

[wilber6150]

That said, apparently Mac created and equipped the greatest army on Earth up to that time, and it's possible the North might have lost without his genius.

Seemed like one of his major faults as a commander was that he loved and adored his army so much that he wouldn't use it unless every possible preperation was covered to ensure victory with minimal loss to his men..This could be one of the reasons he was so beloved by his troops, they knew he cared..

[flattop32355]

He was not actually present on the field at any of the batltes in which his forces fought, from Rich Mountain through Antietam.


Oh, he was at Rich Mountain, all right....Parked at the bottom of the mountain, deciding that, since it was raining, he couldn't attack in support of Rosecrans' flanking move. After all, he was outnumbered....

The only thing he was swift about was taking credit for other people's successes and at criticizing the government for not supporting his calls for more men, supplies, and time.


Grant, however, simply wasn't afraid of Lee and knew he could defeat him (Lee was, after all, badly defeated in his first field command of the war).

If you are referring to his efforts in Western Virginia, he wasn't so much sent there to take command as to try to get the other generals (Floyd and Wise, in particular) to play nice with each other and coordinate their efforts; he had no authority over them. Later, at Cheat Mountain, he was undone by his subordinates and the poor decision to rely on his least experienced commander to lead off his initial attack.

Continually throughout the war, Lee made errors. However, for any given battle or campaign, he rarely made the last one. He also studied his opposing commanders, learning their flaws and strengths, taking advantage of the former and protecting against the latter.

[Union Navy]

McClellan had the same war objective that many union commanders had - including Halleck (according to Gideon Welles' diary). They saw the objective as pusing Confederate armies back onto "their" land and keeping them contained, taking a page from Scott's Anaconda Plan. Welles saw this as the main reason for the "slows" many union generals had, from McClellan to Meade after Gettysburg. Grant (and some others) changed that by making the Confederate army their objective rather than just containing them.

[Danny]

...If you are referring to his efforts in Western Virginia, he wasn't so much sent there to take command as to try to get the other generals (Floyd and Wise, in particular) to play nice with each other and coordinate their efforts; he had no authority over them....

Considering he was sent by the highest level of the Confederate government itself he certainly did have the authority. He just wasn't effective in wielding it.


...Later, at Cheat Mountain, he was undone by his subordinates and the poor decision to rely on his least experienced commander to lead off his initial attack...

I'm not sure what your point was there. The inability to enlist subordinate support or make a good decision means he could be defeated, and was defeated. And it was Lee's own men in those early campaigns that nicknamed him "Granny Lee" for the way he commanded.


...Continually throughout the war, Lee made errors. However, for any given battle or campaign, he rarely made the last one. He also studied his opposing commanders, learning their flaws and strengths, taking advantage of the former and protecting against the latter.

Well he didn't study Grant too well, nor did he understand him. If he rarely made the last error, he certainly made the biggest error of the entire war by focusing all strategy on Virginia and the defense of Richmond even as the back door to Richmond, indeed the entire Confederacy, was being kicked-in in the West. Some say that by that point of the War he had the opportunity, the influence and the authority to better support the Western front and he chose not to.

Dan Wykes

[Remise]

McClellan was a Berthier -- not a Davout. He would have made a great chief of staff for somebody. I forgot who it was who once said that he loved his men so much he was reluctant to risk them in battle, but I think that might not be an unfair statement. On the other hand, he didn't see to overlylove the 1,000 wounded he abandoned, when the AOP made its more or less panicky retreat in the Peninsula.

Some Confederate general -- it might have been Fitz Lee -- said after the war (regarding Pinkerton's exaggerated estimates of Confederate strength, which Little Mac always took at face value), something along the lines of, "If they could rarely get more than 100,000 men in the field, with a population three times as large as ours, how on Earth did they think we could field an army in Virginia of 200,000 men?"

A good point, I think.

B.C. Milligan
Company K, First Pennsylvania Reserves

[Strawfoot]

I was doing some research when I came across this quote from Robert E. Lee



This got me wondering what was it about him that made General Lee think so highly of him. Was it his great ability to rebuild the army physically and materially or more importantly the morale of the troops; or was it his tatical skills.. Though McClellan was a inept as a fast striking offensive minded officer as mentioned by President Lincoln in this quote



In the mode of defense, however, he countered many of Lee's moves as shown in the Seven days campaign, and also suprised Lee with his speed in the response to his first attempted invasion of the North.. Though, having a copy of Lee's orders certainly didn't hurt :)

So my question I'd like to put out on this forum is what qualities about McClellan do you think Lee was admiring that placed him above say Grant..

thanks


Well,

To intrude... I've just gotten up off the floor from laughing so hard at this thread. It seems every so often we get a 'defend Little Mac' thread on this forum courtesy of us armchair generals.

George Brinton McClellan was the worst fighting general in the history of our armed forces, and a scourge to the hundreds of thousands of mothers, wives, and children who lost fathers, husbands, and sons in the 2 1/2 years of savage warfare which should've ended on the banks of Antietam Creek. The fact that he raised a fine army in the fall of 1861 means little, as the Confederates were not going to seize Washington anyhow. To reference my viewpoint, I suggest sampling "To The Gates of Richmond" by Steven Sears.

For the ones who speak of "what ifs", one of the great tragedies of the American Civil War, besides the Lincoln murder, was Phil Kearny buying the farm at Chantilly. He was the only general with enough credo, charisma, and fighting ability to take a job Lincoln so desperately wanted to give to anybody else but Little Mac in the first days of September 1862. Kearny had seen plenty of combat BEFORE the war fighting in Europe, where he'd lost an arm. In the savage little battles before Richmond during the Seven Days, Kearny was deploying his Red Diamond division into line when on of his regimental commanders asked him where he should place his men.

"Oh... Anywhere Colonel. You'll find lovely fighting all down the line!"

If that man had been in command during the Maryland campaign, Lost Order or not, the ANV would've never made it back into Virginia.

[plankmaker]

I like Ben Butler. He always looked you in the eye, you just couldn't be sure which one. He wore neat carpet slippers too. He also got into a little game of oneupsmanship with R.E. Lee. Things must have been bad at Dutch Gap, seems they were passing out Oaths of Allegance like Chicklets there for a while.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN


CAMP AT DUTCH GAP, VA., September 21, 1864.

Major General B. F. BUTLER,

Commanding Department of Virginia and North Carolina:

GENERAL: Is it not established with sufficient certainty that the rebels have remitted to slavery, or otherwise put to hard labor, colored prisoners of war captured from us at Plymouth, Petersburg, and elsewhere, to warrant the use of rebel prisoners upon the work now in progress at Dutch Gap, where the shells of the enemy are beginning to tell with considerable effect upon our laboring soldiers? My men would take pleasure in acting as guards; would perform the duty, I think, with unusual pride and efficiency.

I have the honor to be, & c.,

SAMUEL A. DUNCAN,

Colonel, Commanding.

HDQRS. DEPT. OF VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA,

ENGINEER'S OFFICE,
HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF THE POTOMAC, October 12, 1864-11.15 a.m.

Brigadier-General PATRICK,

Provost-Marshal-General, City Point, Va.:

Please send me under guard, on board a boat, 150 of the most considerable of the prisoners captured by us in your hands, especially of the local defense, including privates Henly and McRay, for the purpose of being put to work in Dutch Gap, in retaliation for out soldiers now at work in the rebel trenches near Fort Gilmer.

BENJ. F. BUTLER,

Major-General, Commanding.

HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF THE JAMES,
October 18, 1864-9 p. m.

Brigadier-General PATRICK,

Provost-Marshal-General, City Point, Va.:

Please send my fifty more rebel prisoners to put in Dutch Gap. So many of these are taking the oath of allegiance that I want to keep the numbers full.

BENJ. F. BUTLER,

Major-General, Commanding.
CITY POINT, VA., October 20, 1864.

Major-General BUTLER:

I am in receipt of a communication from General Lee, showing that prisoners of war set to work in the intrenchments have been withdrawn. I will send you the communication to-morrow. It becomes incumbent on us, of course, to withdraw the prisoners employed in Dutch Gap Canal. Please withdraw them and have them forwarded to join the prisoners of war North.

U. S. GRANT,

Lieutenant-General.

HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF THE JAMES,

October 20, 1864-9.50 p. m.
Lieutenant-General GRANT,

City Point:

Your telegram concerning the official dispatch of General Lee, regarding the prisoners at work in the rebel trenches, is received. Orders have been issued relieving to-night the prisoners at Dutch gap. A copy of the order will be sent you in the morning.

BENJ. F. BUTLER,

Major-General.

GENERAL ORDERS, HDQRS. DEPT. OF VA. AND N. C.,

Numbers 134.
ARMY OF THE JAMES,

In the Field, Va., October 20, 1864.

It having been officially certified by General Lee, commanding Confederate forces, that the prisoners of war of this army put to work in the trenches near Fort Gilmer have been withdraw, to be treated as prisoners of war, it is ordered that the prisoners of war of the Confederate forces put to work in the canal at Dutch Gap, in retaliation, shall be at once withdrawn and sent to Point Lookout, to be held and treated hereafter as prisoners of war.

Number of these prisoners having certified in writing to the commanding general their desire to take the oath of allegiance, because of the inhumanity of the Confederate authorities toward them, which application was declined lest it should be said that these prisoners took the oath of allegiance to the United States under duress, it is now ordered that so may of them as choose, after this order is read to the, be permitted to take the oath of allegiance, and be sent North, to be there found employment by the Government, as other prisoners of war have been who have returned to their loyalty to the United States.

By command of Major-General Butler:

ED. W. SMITH,

Assistant Adjutant-General

[tompritchett]

Things must have been bad at Dutch Gap, seems they were passing out Oaths of Allegance like Chicklets there for a while.

If my memory serves me right from your previous posts, they probably had no desire to be mortared by their own countrymen while trapped in the uncompleted canal.

[plankmaker]

Tom,

Don't you think the captured USCTs being used as forced labor probably felt the same way?

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[hendrickms24]

Seemed like one of his major faults as a commander was that he loved and adored his army so much that he wouldn't use it unless every possible preperation was covered to ensure victory with minimal loss to his men..This could be one of the reasons he was so beloved by his troops, they knew he cared..

I disagree with this statement and wish people would stop using it. I once thought this too until I read a letter that Mac wrote to his wife. I will sum it up here since I don't have his letter in front of me to quote from. McClellan wrote to his wife that he would delay as long as possible in sending reinforcements to General Pope's army because he did not want Pope to succeed! If he loved his men that much then he would have supported any commander who was fighting and possibly going to winning a battle against the Confederates. He loved his men only when they helped him gain glory and that’s it! The only way he wanted to win the war is if he was leading the army.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Well,

To intrude... I've just gotten up off the floor from laughing so hard at this thread. It seems every so often we get a 'defend Little Mac' thread on this forum courtesy of us armchair generals.

George Brinton McClellan was the worst fighting general in the history of our armed forces, and a scourge to the hundreds of thousands of mothers, wives, and children who lost fathers, husbands, and sons in the 2 1/2 years of savage warfare which should've ended on the banks of Antietam Creek. The fact that he raised a fine army in the fall of 1861 means little, as the Confederates were not going to seize Washington anyhow. To reference my viewpoint, I suggest sampling "To The Gates of Richmond" by Steven Sears.

For the ones who speak of "what ifs", one of the great tragedies of the American Civil War, besides the Lincoln murder, was Phil Kearny buying the farm at Chantilly. He was the only general with enough credo, charisma, and fighting ability to take a job Lincoln so desperately wanted to give to anybody else but Little Mac in the first days of September 1862. Kearny had seen plenty of combat BEFORE the war fighting in Europe, where he'd lost an arm. In the savage little battles before Richmond during the Seven Days, Kearny was deploying his Red Diamond division into line when on of his regimental commanders asked him where he should place his men.

"Oh... Anywhere Colonel. You'll find lovely fighting all down the line!"

If that man had been in command during the Maryland campaign, Lost Order or not, the ANV would've never made it back into Virginia.

It's a shame that Chantilly was paved over. All that's left is a an acre or two of parkland with some empty beer bottles and two stones for Kearny and Stevens, not too far from where they gave their lives to save the army and the capital. I hate to criticize any general of the war, but one does get the feeling that if MacClellan had commanded at Chantilly the war might have ended a lot sooner, but not in a way he could be proud of.

I also suspect that if Lee had actually named any Federal general as the single most important to the national government's victory, it would have been Montgomery Meigs.

[tompritchett]

Don't you think the captured USCTs being used as forced labor probably felt the same way?

I won't argue that point. Worse, the USCT troops had no means to escape the labor via a loyalty oath. I was merely pointing out that if one had to choose between working in a pit with steep side walls that was periodically being mortared or taking an oath of allegiance, I can understand why a lot of them took the oath.

[wilber6150]

To intrude... I've just gotten up off the floor from laughing so hard at this thread. It seems every so often we get a 'defend Little Mac' thread on this forum courtesy of us armchair generals.

Ok, this has sort of transformed into a defend Little Mac thread, which wasn't its intention, as he was a bad general, great adminastrator and organizor but not the man you would want leading an army: Though his troops would argue with you. The point of this thread was why did General Lee or Mosby think so highly of him over the rest of the Union generals that they had faced. And that question no one has touched...

[Strawfoot]

Ok, this has sort of transformed into a defend Little Mac thread, which wasn't its intention, as he was a bad general, great adminastrator and organizor but not the man you would want leading an army: Though his troops would argue with you. The point of this thread was why did General Lee or Mosby think so highly of him over the rest of the Union generals that they had faced. And that question no one has touched...


Speaking of poor Union Generals... When David Hunter vacated the Shenandoah in the summer of 1864, running off through the West Virginia mountains before Jube Early's II ANV Corps, he took his entire army out of the war for two weeks and left the valley wide open for a Confederate drive on washington.

Grant finally relieved him at some point, but for months Hunter tried to justify his move to Stanton, Lincoln, and even Grant, complaining of undisciplined troops and unskillful generals, and how he was unfairly blamed. After the war he even wrote to Lee, asking if he did not agree that his move into the mountains was a sound manuever.

Lee hated Hunter, yet still replied with courtesy that he 'hardly felt competent to pass' on Hunter's strategic reasonings, since he had no idea what they were. Yet he then added that the move itself had been a 'tremendous help to Lee personally and to the Southern Confederacy in general.'

I'd take Lee's comments vis a vis Little MC into this context...

[plankmaker]

I don't know about Lee, but this guy makes it pretty clear where he stands on the Lil' Mac issue.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

1862 CIVIL WAR LETTER - 53RD PA SOLDIER - PENINSULA CAMPAIGN, HARRISON'S LANDING

Dated "Harrisons Landing Va Aug 15th 62." 4 pp., 5" x 8", in ink and with cover. Fold marks, light foxing and a couple of ink stains are present. Else VG and highly legible. Written by Spang to his parents and brother in Pottstown, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. Accompanied by cover addressed to "Jermiah Spang Pottstown Montgomrey County Pa." 3-cent stamp; postmarked Aug 18 _______ VA.

Prior to this letter, the 53rd PA had been active or present in the battles of the 1862 Peninsula Campaign. The regiment was encamped at Harrison's Landing at the date of this letter, and would remain there until the end of August. Mention of Malvern Hill, as well as his disdain of those who enlist for a bounty, and a dislike of Gen. McDowell.

"Deare Parents & Bro...yours of the 12th has just came to hand the Box has not arived here yet and if it is on the boat here it will not be unloaded as we expect to move every day some troops have already goin [gone] our knapsacks are going [gone] we ware out nere Malvern hill wen tha [they] avacuated we staid on picket 2 days and then came to camp it is verey hot here serveral ware sun struck cuming from the hill so you have a notion to go to war dont go as a private if you wont good times as a steward you ought to know something of medecin some of our regt have goin [gone] home to recute Wm. G. Yergey from our camp your nutheren [northern] papers says that the best kind of men are now enlisting...the bounty given to enlist men is all a humbug might as well throw the money in the street tha [they] had better keep the famleys of the men that
are out here as tha [they] promist to do and if men cant volenteer without bounty draft them better hang the abolistinists kick the Congressmen out of the Capital put men their that are union men and go in for the intrest of the Country and not their pockets things would go better McDowl had better not show his faice down in this armey we are all down on him and would...shoot him as a reb we are shure we could have taken Richmond if them fellows had kep Jackson back we came in after him but here cums Jackson with his whole forse and that McClenan [McClellan] did not expect he sent for reinforsements long before the battel but no congres said he had so maney if tha [they] think all the towns taken can be held without men tha [they] had better cum and fight themselves 20 thosands rebels could have taken this whole army the day after we came here we ware discouraged and waren out...i ges ________ will give you a soryfull [sorrowful] story of how we are treated wen have nothing to complain of yet hope you and _________ will have luck with your serupe [syrup]....you did not say how much money i had sent home it is raining here now Stamps came safe to hand thare is a great deil of what we caul playing off sick in this army best respects to all...Joe."

AUGUST 23, 1862 CIVIL WAR LETTER - 53RD PENNSYLVANIA INFANTRY - CAMP NEAR NEWPORT NEWS

Dated "Camp nere Newport News Va Aug 23rd 62." 4 pp. 5" x 8" in pencil. Fold marks & just a few areas of light foxing, else VG and legible. Written by Spang to his parents in Pottstown, Montgomery County, PA. Accompanied by cover addressed to "Jermiah Spang Pottstown Montgomrey County Pa." 3-cent stamp; postmarked Old Point Comfort, Virginia, August 24.

Prior to this letter, the 53rd PA had been active or present in the battles of the 1862 Peninsula Campaign. The regiment was encamped at Harrison's Landing during August 1862 before the movement to Newport News.

"Parents...in my last i told you that we ware under marching orders we started 8 days ago we had a hard march of it we marched 7 days on half rations the land along the James is good corn feilds of 75 to 100 acers was soon stript of roster [roasting] ears wich are good...we moved part of the way in 2 coulms [columns] one on each side of the road and the Artilry and train in the road some times in the woods and brush and then in the roads was hard marching we could not see most of the time for dust it was the dustiest trip we maid yet we marched through Wiliamsburg wich is an old looking place i did not see one white man in the place at Yorktown most of the troops ware loaded we marched here and reached here on the 22nd here it is full of Sutlers who are maiking money like fun this is a beautifull place one can see fore miles on the river the masts of the Cumberland [March 8, 1862 the sloop-of-war Cumberland was rammed and sunk by the Confederate ironclad CSS Virginia] are still sticking above warter Newport News is full of Negroes who live in all kinds of shanteys we have received one mail in 8 days no letter for me the box has not maid its aperanc [appearance] yet Stanley is poorley and looks bad he is at Newport News the news is that McClenan [McClellan] has resined should not wounder if he did the majority of our roten Congres have don all tha [they] could against him ______ said more men dide [died] diging in the trenches than ware kiled in battel i have dug as much as aney man on the intrenshiments and never saw aney man woork more than he wanted to we woorked 1 hour and rested 2 hours more ware kiled eating crackers and marching than diging this is one of our new Generals moves i supose who i ges will do big things if Jackson had a bin cep [kept] back we would now be in Richmond or if Banks Mcdowell had folowed him and formed a Junction on our right all would have bin well but thair eyes war shut up and Jackson sneaked of and we had the whole reb armey to contend with a maney a Genaral would have fought insted of faling back and had the whole armey captured or kiled but McClenan [McClellan] saw that is was no use fighting and fell back saving nearly every thing the enemey never wiped this armey...my love to all from your Son Joe Spang."

[Remise]

I know I am getting off topic here. We are all off topic, as this has nothing to do with Lee's opinion whatsoever! Having admitted this, if you read the first of Robert Knox Sneden's collected diaries, "Eye of the Storm," in it, you may recall that in it, he refers to McClellan having "fortification on the brain," and also, somewhere, says rather pointedly that during the battle, McClellan would stay in his tent and contribute little, but then afterwards, scatter the blame, if things had not gone well, right and left, to anyone but himself.

Although only a private, Sneden, as a mapmaker, sketch artist (and, previous to the war) architect, hob-nobbed with generals on a daily basis, and it is my belief that his opinions of McClellan were probably aided by those of some of the latter's officers.

B.C. Milligan
Company K, First Penna. Reserves

[plankmaker]

Naw, I wouldn't say we have drifted completely off topic yet, just maybe took a turn on a side street. Off topic would be "Did McClellan like BBQ and would he prefer cake or pie with it?"

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[plankmaker]

[deletion - THP}] I have probably read a lot about McClellan and the Seven Days and am amazed at how badly he interpretted information provided to him. One of the purest examples of him trying to sabotage another General officer was Casey at Seven Pines, maybe you should look into that. It might be of interest to you. [deletion -THP; already taken care of]

I better step away from the table now.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[plankmaker]

Not Lee's impression, but one I share with the author. He was an arrogant little man. He did work for the RR afterall.

http://www.historynet.com/wars_conflicts/american_civil_war/3036376.html

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[sbl]

"He did work for the RR afterall."


Hey! So did Lincoln and my grandfather! That was when "Railroad Accuracy" was a standard of quality.

;)

[plankmaker]

Scott,

Had to take a RR shot as I have been having to deal with them most of the day. They are wanting to shut down a crossing on a fairly busy interchange on Saturday and Sunday. We had to say "Ummm guys, this is race weekend. That could cause some serious traffic issues with the estimated 260,000 people coming through town." At that statement they just kind of gave us a blank look and stated that they intended to do it anyway. At that point the shift leaders for both the Bristol VA and TN PDs were brought in and told what the RR was intending to do. They kind of went off and told the RR people that anyone trying to close the crossing would be arrested. Only then did the RR reluctantly agree to push back their project. My past dealings with the RR have not always had such happy outcomes.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[plankmaker]

Oh, Herman Haupt was a cool guy though.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3234/BrigGeneralH.html

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[sbl]

I LOVE Herman Haupt! What a yachtsman to.


http://oha.alexandriava.gov/fortward/special-sections/voices/images/fw-voices-haupt.gif