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csa steward
01-11-2008, 04:40 PM
just wondering if anybody think be ok if i put some blood on my shirt when i on the field as a steward.

NoahBriggs
01-11-2008, 04:55 PM
If bloodstains must be anywhere on you I'd think it should be around the cuffs of your shirt, since the hands will be doing most of the work.

rcsob657
01-11-2008, 05:07 PM
Do me a favor and make sure it's either fake blood or 'clean' pig blood. I really don't want someone I don't know with blood from who knows where touch me for X reason.

Slickrick214
01-11-2008, 06:08 PM
I don't see a problem with. As NoahBriggs said put some of the blood on your cuffs and your surgeon apron. If you have a local butcher shop near you see what you can do about getting animal blood. If you don't have a butcher shop near by you could see if you have a 4-H club in your county and find out where they bring their livestock to be slaughtered. I'm not sure but animal blood might smell even after it dries. I never butchered an animal before so I never had the chance to stick my face in the carcass to smell its blood. It might be something you want to think about especially in the summer time.

celtfiddler
01-11-2008, 11:28 PM
Bugs are attracted to both real and fake blood

Jas. Cox
01-12-2008, 02:45 AM
I don't see a problem with. As NoahBriggs said put some of the blood on your cuffs and your surgeon apron. If you have a local butcher shop near you see what you can do about getting animal blood. If you don't have a butcher shop near by you could see if you have a 4-H club in your county and find out where they bring their livestock to be slaughtered. I'm not sure but animal blood might smell even after it dries. I never butchered an animal before so I never had the chance to stick my face in the carcass to smell its blood. It might be something you want to think about especially in the summer time.

Blood (in large amounts) is not like it is in the movies. It's very thin/watery and when it dries it's more like a rust stain brown. I've never noticed a strong smell from it and I don't think one should be doing a Carrie effect anyway. So just a bit and remember when it dries it won't look like blood.


Bugs are attracted to both real and fake blood

I'm not sure how a small amount of dried real blood will be attractive to insects. Homemade fake blood is traditionally made from mixing Karo Syrup with red food coloring and a touch of blue. That will attract bugs. However, the new method is to use hair gel mixed with red food coloring (if the hair gel has a blue tint then that's good). Also try a little yellow and experiment with the color. The fake blood will look real, but it won't look real.

NoahBriggs
01-12-2008, 03:22 AM
Your apron is supposed to keep your clothing from getting in the way of random drops and spatters. Contrary to the aprons in the field they are not supposed to look like they were used on the set of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Certainly not used for wiping the saws and the knives. That's your steward's job, and he uses spare cloth for that. Once the aprons/cloths/bandages were done being used they were handed off to the hospital laundresses (government contractors, BTW) to be washed, as walking around anywhere with a bloody apron will be disconcerting to the patients.

A little blood on the apron goes a long way. Blood flows in narrow streams, not broad bands of red. there will be medium-sized spatter from the scalpels and knives and will depend on the procedure being performed.

I think there are more important things to consider about a medical impression than whether or not accessories should be "bloodstained" and with what.

Then again, what do I know. I've never been a surgeon. I just pretend to be one in the field.

hanktrent
01-12-2008, 03:33 AM
Blood (in large amounts) is not like it is in the movies. It's very thin/watery and when it dries it's more like a rust stain brown. I've never noticed a strong smell from it and I don't think one should be doing a Carrie effect anyway. So just a bit and remember when it dries it won't look like blood.

What he said. As for the smell, it takes a day or more to develop the characteristic strong smell, though I don't know that it ever would if the quantity is small and dried, as on the cuffs of a shirt. My parents and I were in a car accident when I was about ten, in which they were almost killed, and when the car was towed to our house afterwards, the smell of blood in the interior was very strong.

In the period, I'd guess the smell would be coming from unwashed bandages and bloody uniforms that hadn't dried and sat for a while, rather than the much fainter and "cleaner" odor of fresh blood.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
01-12-2008, 04:07 AM
Hallo!

I would echo what Herr Hank said.. and add that:

It is hard to impossible to "fake" the distinctive flat, dry, metallic smell of blood.

In brief and to over-generalize...

But beyond the nuances of smell, blood is a complex creature. Oxygen rich blood from arteries is a brigher red than blood from veins. The bright red "blood' we are used to seeing from Hollyweird (when they do not just use Hershey's chocolate syrup for old blood pools) is a temporary rarity as blood quickly darkens and coagulates/congeals into a darkening reddish brown and often dries very brownish and even reddish-black.
So, fresh arterial spray is a horse of a different color than several day's old blood residue- or where the iron in blood serves as a mordant to set the stain's color in fabric that is hard to impossible to launder out.

Others mileage, will vary...

CHS
Who has seen more blood, mine and others, than I care to remember

Parault
01-12-2008, 08:43 AM
What Curt voiced above is true concerning colors and stains. I find it rather erroneous to see "blood stains" on someone protraying medical personel,simply because the ingredients that is used to fashion the right texture and color,appears as a sad reproduction.
I have witnessed the flowing of blood from almost every conceivable wound, and they can vary from the color range of the blood spectrum, including the way they will mark your attire.

Slickrick214
02-03-2008, 03:45 AM
That is true but looking at it from the other side how realistic is it to have a perfectly clean surgeon? We're talking about the 19th century and the times were dirty back then. They were cutting off arms and legs and throwing them in piles. They would use dirty tools on patient after patient and probe bullet wounds with their dirty fingers. To me I would rather see a surgeon impression with blood (whether it looks real or not) then a perfectly clean sanitary surgeon. To me a dirty surgeon with fake looking blood captures that time in history better then a perfectly clean surgeon

FloridaConfederate
02-03-2008, 07:09 AM
I have never cut up a human (yet) but I have taken the skinner to a few deer / hawg carcass. I did not walk away covered in blood.

hanktrent
02-03-2008, 09:33 AM
To me a dirty surgeon with fake looking blood captures that time in history better then a perfectly clean surgeon

What about the third option, a surgeon with realistic-looking blood in a realistic-looking amount?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

NoahBriggs
02-03-2008, 09:34 AM
The majority of the surgeon's time was taken up treating the sick and chasing paperwork for sixteen to eighteen hours a day. I don't see much blood in either of those two eneadvours, unless you count paper cuts.

TimKindred
02-03-2008, 12:07 PM
That is true but looking at it from the other side how realistic is it to have a perfectly clean surgeon? We're talking about the 19th century and the times were dirty back then. They were cutting off arms and legs and throwing them in piles. They would use dirty tools on patient after patient and probe bullet wounds with their dirty fingers. To me I would rather see a surgeon impression with blood (whether it looks real or not) then a perfectly clean sanitary surgeon. To me a dirty surgeon with fake looking blood captures that time in history better then a perfectly clean surgeon

How can you possibly justify such a statement? Although the connection between infection and bacteria was not widely known (at least, to 99% of medical practioners) at that time, to say that personal hygeine was lacking is an insult to both those same folks and to anyone who has read past the 3rd grade level.

Surgeons and their staffs went out of their way to keep themselves clean both in body and clothing. Did you not read Noah's post regarding hospital (both ficed and field) laundry? Many many steps were taken to eliminate both dirt and stains from appearance, not only because it was unsightly and interefered with daily work, but because it would adversely affect morale as well as the opinions of the patients and others viewing them of the medical staff.

I would much rather see a clean and unstained medical unit in the field, than those who subscribe to the Hollywood blood&gore and dirty face school of hack reenacting. Those who insist upon waving the bloody shirt, as it were, set an extremely low standard for authenticity.

As to it's color, I agree with Hank & Vurt here. I've seen far too much real life blood and gore and can tell you that the colour and consistancy will run the gamut of the red spectrum, and on to purple, and from water thin to tofu. It all depends upon from where the blood (and other detritus) came, and for how long it has been exposed to air, temperature, and such.

Other's mileage may, of course, vary.

NoahBriggs
02-03-2008, 05:10 PM
I'm confident I'll be banned from this forum without further notice for the following post. Not because of what I wrote, but how I write it. If I am banned, then see you in the field, and vaya con Dios, if you actually bother to believe in a diety of some sort.

I bought some actual powdered gum arabic at a wicca store yesterday. I am attempting to upgrade my impression wherever possible, and acacaie pulvis is the first thing on my list of meds. (Originally it was a liquid format I got at an art store.

While there I saw a T-shirt that said "Stop bitching and start a revolution." Well, here I am. My tact took a hike so I'l write my mind. If I piss you off, perhaps maybe that'll incite some thinking in the wake of my departure.

I'll be far more impressed with a "Civil War Surgeon" or "hospital stewart" who is capable of diagnosing a disease properly, writing out a prescription properly, making notes in the patient and treatment and prescription registers, and dispensing reproduction medicines which look/taste/smell like the real thing.You know, those day-to-day things that happen, well, day-to-day. Non-surgical medicine and understanding the hypotheses of diesase and bodily functions is an under-valued but far more important skill. Proper and accurate pharmacy and disease are less-covered than the surgical aspects, which have been done to death.

No sergeants ever turn up with their sick books. It's just self-diagnosing privates hoping for some free medicinal whiskey. The whole sick call turns into "stump the surgeon" with some weird ailment.

A lot of surgical detail is missing from "Civil War Medicine" displays - the patient struggling to resist anesthesia, putting ligatures on the tenacula so they are ready to slide off the hook and around the vessel, proper suturing and sealing of wounds, reserached examples of bandaging, nobody bothers to plug the cut bone with a lump of beeswax to keep all that marrow from falling out, using foreceps and clamps to help tie sutures. All of that detail is out there if anyone cares to look. Here's a hint -

The sources may be found on this discussion forum on a previous thread. We posted a biblio of primary and secondary sources. I found it fascinating reading.

Small amounts of blood in a fake wound does add to the verssimilitude, but that's not how I judge a display anymore. Today's audience has been brought up on a high-cholesterol diet of gritty and researched crime dramas Bones, Cold Case, CSI et al. Thus visitors (that's "V-I-S-I-T-O-R-S", not "turons", "'taters" or other obscure foods) will have specific questions. There are many medical professionals out there and here. They will have technical questions, and we had better be prepared to answer them - or admit "I dunno, but I will find out for you and get back to you on that." (Unfortunately that will kill any potential career as a talking head on the news networks.)

All of the above leaves little room for discussions of esoteric treatments using honey and sugar. Even a cursory glance into the prescription and pharmacy books of the era shows that sugar and honey were used as vehicles and flavoring agents. What's wrong with using monkeybloods? Far more common.

Brutal sarcasm? Yes. Aimed at anyone in particular? Nope. I feel a heavy responsibility on my shoulders to try and counter the mythology of medicine in the era with fact-basedresearch. I'll use some fake blood if I have set up a specific wound for a demonstration. But to leave it on the sleeves, the apron from event to event smacks of tastelessness to real physicians, especialy those who work the ORs overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Peace.

Linda Trent
02-03-2008, 07:13 PM
I'm confident I'll be banned from this forum without further notice for the following post.Noah, I certainly hope not. If you get banned this forum will lose a very valuable researcher and medical living historian. We need you here.

Linda.

Slickrick214
02-03-2008, 08:36 PM
How can you possibly justify such a statement? Although the connection between infection and bacteria was not widely known (at least, to 99% of medical practioners) at that time, to say that personal hygeine was lacking is an insult to both those same folks and to anyone who has read past the 3rd grade level.

From pictures and reading books about medical practice during the Civil War. I've seen plenty of pictures where surgeons were cutting off arms and legs and throwing them in piles outside the hostpital building. Books would talk about how they would use dirty tools on patient after patient and how the surgeons would probe bullet wounds with their dirty fingers and if they couldn't find the bullet then they would use a metal probe. From the pictures I've seen the surgeons were far from clean. I'm not saying the surgeons should be covered in blood like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre but a little blood doesn't hurt either. I've seen plenty of Federal medical impressionst with slightly bloody aprons and sleeves. Thier impression was good, thier equipment waas authentic and the little blood looked good.

Jas. Cox
02-03-2008, 09:32 PM
I'm confident I'll be banned from this forum without further notice for the following post .....

I bought some actual powdered gum arabic at a wicca store yesterday. I am attempting to upgrade my impression wherever possible, and acacaie pulvis is the first thing on my list of meds. (Originally it was a liquid format I got at an art store.....

Okay, I had to look up "verssimilitude." Verisimilitude—or truthlikeness—in the philosophy of science is trying to articulate how a false theory could be closer to the truth than another false theory. This usage was mostly popularized by Sir Karl Popper. His logical definition of Verisimilitude was independently shown inadequate by Pavel Tichý[1] and David Miller,[2] and the search for such a logical definition is still under way.

In any event, I understand what you are saying. I appreciate what you are saying. I want to have a more realistic impression. While I would never admit to being hardcore, I've always wanted things to be right and accurate. Being a surgeon is probably like being a cop, a fireman, a soldier, etc. Hours and even days of boredom and then a fantastic rush of activity and adrenaline. So which part is more accurate? The boring parts or the frightening parts? They are both accurate. Noah is tired of seeing everyone do the same "I'm a surgeon, see how they bleed," and wants people to see the other sides. Again, I see that as being valuable. I also see the impressionists who want the exciting parts, the parts that the "audience" wants to see and not someone filling out weather reports. I say so let them. I don't care what anyone else does, as long as it has accuracy. But let's face it, none of us were there. We can only gather so much from photos, from books, from what someone else says "this is the way it was." We can only try.

Again, as for me, I would like to learn the ways of the force. But I learn from seeing, from lecture and far less from reading. I'm a visual learner. Actually, in 1-12 and my B.S. and my Associates Degrees it was read, lecture, and participate that allowed me to learn. I have recently gather a number of books and downloaded books from Google, but I glaze over from most of them. I can "play" (all the world's a stage) an incompetent doctor. And yes, there were "doctors" of all skills and abilities and personalities. By the end of the war most of the charlatans were weeded out, but to say that all surgeons/doctors were anything ... just doesn't hold true. Cow one is not cow two. S.I.H.

And thus if one sees me at an event and I look or act like an idiot, then one can try and guide me or shake one's head and mutter "idiot."

Just remember in my impression, I carry a revolver. ;)

Okay, so it's never loaded.

Peace out.

hanktrent
02-03-2008, 10:05 PM
So which part is more accurate? The boring parts or the frightening parts? They are both accurate.

But not both at the same time. I'd say what's accurate depends on the historic situation being reenacted. A surgeon who's performing surgery for twelve hours after a major battle will be bloodier than a surgeon doing sick call and paperwork and riding behind the column for twelve hours.

If an event has no designed historic time or place, or historic scenarios are portrayed with empty gaps in between, any choice is as accurate or as inaccurate as any other, because everyone can choose whatever they want to portray, even if it contradicts what others are doing.

If an event has a designed historic time and place, where everyone cooperates toward recreating the same situation, there's really no difficulty deciding what's accurate. The surgeon does what a surgeon would have done, whether it's the boring part or the frightening part.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

hta1970
02-03-2008, 11:05 PM
I have actually seen Noah doing his medical impression at the AGSAS event at Harper's Ferry. A very good impression running the medical facility. And he is right, there is lots of paperwork. Thanks again for letting me take photos opf your record book and surgical set.

Disease prevention and mitigation was a major part of the work of the medical staff of both armies. When disease was killing more men than bullets, you can bet that was on their minds every day, but not a part of most medical impressions. First thing my battery commander ask about doing was sick call and that will be a daily event at reenactments for us. (Anyone have any suggestions for how to arrange this I am all ears)

Another thing to remember is what it takes to run a surgery. We aren't talking about a surgeon and/or his assistant working alone, or female nurses working there to support them. (I am not going to get on any discussion about females working in field hospitals) There were orderlies, many surgeons and assistant surgeosn, hospital stewards and male, yes, male nurses detailed from the units. And then there were ambulances coming in and out of the field hospital.

Truth is, most of us can't get close to the level of authenticity needed to run a field hospital like that. So we need to focus on what we can handle and accurately portray rather than making sure we look like we just operated on the Kool-Aid Man.

Disease prevention/mitigation and the triage (ok a 20th century term) of wounded on the battlefield, as well as all the record keeping which was done after the fact. Anyone serving as an assistant surgeon should be able to handle that with some basic research, reading and careful mentoring from some of the fine minds of 19th Century Medicine who contribute to this forum. They have spent years reading, researching and studying the subject, examining period materials, and developing the most accurate portrayals of medical impressions available.

And my humble thanks to each and every one of them for what they do to make their 15% of the field accurate in the face of the 85% that needs some work.

NoahBriggs
02-04-2008, 06:37 AM
Jas. Cox
But I learn from seeing, from lecture and far less from reading. I'm a visual learner.

Me too, but in my case the books lay out the foundations for the application. It's similar to the Thayer method of instruction used at West Point - read the material beforehand, and discuss the next day in class. Open invite right here to drop by in the field to work with me. hands-on instruction is more interesting anyway.

hta1970
Another thing to remember is what it takes to run a surgery. We aren't talking about a surgeon and/or his assistant working alone, or female nurses working there to support them. (I am not going to get on any discussion about females working in field hospitals) There were orderlies, many surgeons and assistant surgeosn, hospital stewards and male, yes, male nurses detailed from the units. And then there were ambulances coming in and out of the field hospital.

Something they are shooting for At High Tide, and I am shooting for at After the Battle (http://www.stonewallbrigade.com/afterthebattle07.htm). Anyone who cares to join me, just ask. It's in November 2008, plenty of time for personal prep. Plenty of room for stews, sawbones and scriveners. I am much more pleasant and less of an anus mundi out in the field then on here. Really! I am willing to portray a stew at ATB to balance the surgeon/staff ratio.

First thing my battery commander ask about doing was sick call and that will be a daily event at reenactments for us. (Anyone have any suggestions for how to arrange this I am all ears)

I am running a sick call daily at Winter of 64. I think I can shanghai a clerk. I'll let you all know how it goes. I am working with some other reenactors to reproduce some symptoms, and a couple who were actually diagnosed with Something Chronic that got them transferred out or to the VRC. I'll also be "caring" for hank Trent who will portray Theodore Bragdon (shot in the rear at Paynes Farm, but dies from chronic diarrhea about a week after the event takes place).

In general I'll attempt to type detailed AARs which include What Didn't Work as well as What Did. Thus we can learn to improve the easy way, and only one of us spends the money on the mistake. :cool:

hta1970
02-04-2008, 10:00 AM
I am running a sick call daily at Winter of 64. I think I can shanghai a clerk. I'll let you all know how it goes. I am working with some other reenactors to reproduce some symptoms, and a couple who were actually diagnosed with Something Chronic that got them transferred out or to the VRC. I'll also be "caring" for hank Trent who will portray Theodore Bragdon (shot in the rear at Paynes Farm, but dies from chronic diarrhea about a week after the event takes place).

In general I'll attempt to type detailed AARs which include What Didn't Work as well as What Did. Thus we can learn to improve the easy way, and only one of us spends the money on the mistake. :cool:

Noah,

Thanks for the heads up! I look forward to hearing what works and what doesn't for you. I have been considering having the boys pull slips of paper from hat or bag containing slips of paper with symptoms written upon them. These symptoms of diseases will be based upon a reasonable assessment of what the correct ratio of period diseases for the time and place would be. A patient would only know symptoms anyway...

Side note - What sort of paperwork would a federal contract surgeon have designating him as such and is there a source for this paperwork?

Thanks again!
Harry

NoahBriggs
02-04-2008, 10:46 AM
A contract surgeon would only be found in a general hospital. I suspect he would have a copy of said contract and probably something equivalent to an assistant surgeon's commission. Passes, too, to allow him to be onsite at a military hospital without being hassled by the PM's office.

Educated SWAG.

hta1970
02-04-2008, 12:36 PM
Thanks Noah and thanks too for the sick call information. Interestingly enough, standing orders for Andrews' Artillery Battalion (found in the appendix of Andrew's Manual of Artillery Drill) specified sick call was to be conducted at the civilized hour of 8am. Plenty of time for me to pre for sick call.

Do you know anyone having copies of examples of any of that paperwork of producing it? Does Sullivan Press do those?

Thanks again!

NoahBriggs
02-04-2008, 02:42 PM
There is an article in CRRC 2 that explained there was no standard time for the different calls. The schedules for the regt were made up by the colonel as the circumstances dictated, and read to the regt. by the adjutant on morning parade. That's for the Federal Army Eastern theater, so take it as you will.

Sulivan Press does not make a surgeon's paperwork kit as of this writing. He wants to look at more reports and get the right paper before he turns it loose on us. Blowing up a photocopy of the forms from the regs and leaving it lying around half-filled out as visual clutter in your display is not correct. Ninety percent of the hospital forms will be inventory audit forms, supplies received vs. supplies expended, hospital funds used and accrued, patient records, property records and inventories, and forms for making sure all the hospital staff - temporary and permanent - got paid, promoted and their mail.

The only "paperwork" at a surgeon's call is your patient register, the treatment register, and the prescription register books, all ruled up by your clerk(s), who act as your dictating machine/word-processors/xerox machines. The orderly sergeants should have their sick books. Contrary to popular belief pre-printed forms were not that common in the medical department, and the staff were expected to make their own, hand written and copied. On occasion new forms had to be improvised as weird things came up, as we discovered at the last W-64. As you can imagine, not a popular thing to do at an event, even in the downtime between display lectures.

I spent a lot of hours working quietly on filling out may patient register - names, companies, chief complaints, quick treatment notes. Then I had to note in detail what I "did" to each man in the treatment register, then write what I would have used in the prescription book. Essentially I had to invent almost fifty individual characters, each with some sort of medical history and a diagnosis. I gave Company D a cholera outbreak, and I threw in some minor injuries from pocket knives during cooking, and some injuries from a fist fight, just to break up the monotony of coughs, fevers, fluxes, and whatever.

I'll have to reread how the surgeon's morning report was filled out and reconciled from the previous day's numbers, and merged with the battalion clerks' assembled company roll reports. The idea of the morning report was to account for those not able to report for morning roll-call because they are in hospital or detached for temporary duty.

All the above was done with a dip pen and oak-gall ink. Photographers materialized from out of nowhere.

2RIV
02-04-2008, 08:28 PM
Blood has a very distinctive smell, which varies on where the blood comes from in the body (can smell a good GI bleed a mile away *use your imagination where that odor would come from*). Also, odor detection is a lost art, and blood can have varying odors depending on medical conditions and disease process, for example, there is a distinctive odor to the blood of renal failure patients on hemodialysis, as opposed to peritoneal dialysis. With that being said, odors of other bodily fluids are good indicators of certain disease. I know at some points in medical practice it was common to taste urine. If it had a sweet taste, it was a sign of diabetes. I know this was done in the early 1900s. It would be neat to find documentation either way on this practice for the 1860s. As far as blood stains on clothing, I think there are much more important aspects of portraying a surgeon or steward than playing the drama card.

TimKindred
02-05-2008, 09:42 AM
I spent a lot of hours working quietly on filling out may patient register - names, companies, chief complaints, quick treatment notes. Then I had to note in detail what I "did" to each man in the treatment register, then write what I would have used in the prescription book. Essentially I had to invent almost fifty individual characters, each with some sort of medical history and a diagnosis. I gave Company D a cholera outbreak, and I threw in some minor injuries from pocket knives during cooking, and some injuries from a fist fight, just to break up the monotony of coughs, fevers, fluxes, and whatever.

I'll have to reread how the surgeon's morning report was filled out and reconciled from the previous day's numbers, and merged with the battalion clerks' assembled company roll reports. The idea of the morning report was to account for those not able to report for morning roll-call because they are in hospital or detached for temporary duty.

All the above was done with a dip pen and oak-gall ink. Photographers materialized from out of nowhere.

Noah,

For what it's worth, I've been reworking the regiter I carry. In fact, I'm thinking of starting a completely new one based upon being WITH the regiment, rather than at a field hospital. As an assistant surgeon, odds are that the only entries are going to be from patients within your assigned regiment, and those for mostly disease and minor injuries. Anything more and your entry would most likely reflect only the ID of the patient, the type of injury, and what you did for initial treatment, as the fellow would be quickly transported up the chain to the division hospital, if not on to a general hospital. Thus it would be more of a "lumps &bumps, disease, and ambulatory injuries being dealt with locally.

Now, If I were assigned to a division hospital, or a general hospital, then of course there would be greater data and entries regarding extended treatment, etc. And perhaps we should consider making up two sets of books at some point to better reflect the type of situation we are to represent. Just thinking out loud here.

respects,

mmartin4600
02-05-2008, 10:31 AM
The only "paperwork" at a surgeon's call is your patient register, the treatment register, and the prescription register books, all ruled up by your clerk(s), who act as your dictating machine/word-processors/xerox machines.

Noah, What are you using as your register books? Any chance you could post a picture? Thanks. YOS, Michael Martin

NoahBriggs
02-05-2008, 11:06 AM
My register reflects a "generic" regiment on campaign. Any entries after #50 reflect actual event surgeons calls. that way I have something quick to show the public, and reserve the rest for real events.

Pictures of registers coming soon. Might as well add the registers to my insurance pictures collection/archives.

Edited to add:

I found a couple of accounting ledgers and journal books in the accounting section of Staples. I used Word to create cover labels, shellacked the labels to the books, ruled them up according to the forms in the regs, and went from there.

This should probably gravitate to a new thread. Unless you get bloodstains on your registers from your cuffs.

hanktrent
02-05-2008, 11:07 AM
I know at some points in medical practice it was common to taste urine. If it had a sweet taste, it was a sign of diabetes. I know this was done in the early 1900s. It would be neat to find documentation either way on this practice for the 1860s.

Here ya go, from a discussion about using the various senses in diagnosing:


Taste.--This sense is of comparatively little use in diagnosis, as compared with the others. The ancients, however, employed it largely in ways hardly now to be credited, not to say imitated. They tested the nature of fluids escaping from wounds and fistulae, and formed opinions of the character of expectorated and digested matters, &c. &c. Diabetic urine is sometimes even now-a-days tasted. (Outlines of Surgical Diagnosis by George Husband Baird Macleod, 1864)

Testing was superseding tasting.

Saccharine urine cannot be distinguished, by its appearance, from normal urine. Its specific gravity is generally high, and in consequence it becomes frothy on agitation; its color is pale, its odor fragrant, and its taste sweet. It is also generally transparaent. The presence of sugar, however, once suspected, may be easily proved by analysis or the application of tests [which he goes on to describe]. (Urinary Deposits, their Diagnosis, Pathology and Therapeutical Indicates, Golding Bird, 1859

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Jas. Cox
02-05-2008, 12:43 PM
Here ya go, from a discussion about using the various senses in diagnosing:



Testing was superseding tasting.


Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Coincidentally, on an episode of the TV Show "HOUSE" after the Superbowl, they had to do a diagnosis based on someone tasting urine.

But off the Blood on Shirt topic. Sorry. :(

Jas. Cox
02-05-2008, 05:21 PM
.... It's similar to the Thayer method of instruction used at West Point - read the material beforehand, and discuss the next day in class. Open invite right here to drop by in the field to work with me. hands-on instruction is more interesting anyway.

And that is the method I use/used. If we were much closer in proximity I would gladly and humbly take you up on your offer and the offers of others. One never knows what the future might bring. Have you considered an instructional DVD, and I'm only have joking.

NoahBriggs
02-05-2008, 05:26 PM
No DVD yet, but if you want some face to face learning I hope to be a Mex War/Indian War sawbones veteran at Hopewell Furnace National Historic Site in October. If anyone hangs out with me I'll do first-person reminescences of surgical and pharmaceutical procedures. Either boring memories, or if I get anyone young enough, casual lectures to apprentices.

Jas. Cox
02-05-2008, 05:28 PM
My register reflects a "generic" regiment on campaign. Any entries after #50 reflect actual event surgeons calls. that way I have something quick to show the public, and reserve the rest for real events. ... This should probably gravitate to a new thread. ... .

Yes, to a new thread please. I have some early 20th century "Physician's Daily Memorandum"s from about 1902 - 1924 with missing later years. Not exceptionally informative and look like early "drug rep" SWAG. In the case of the 1902 book there are testimonials for "Pepto-Mangan (Gude) ..."

Robert A Mosher
02-05-2008, 09:03 PM
bump

Robert A. Mosher

lord robert
02-07-2008, 09:42 PM
just so you know cake iceing makes good blood its non toxic its realistic and it dose not stain its good to put in your mouth