Spring Chancellorsville event?

[PvtMudflap]

Anyone know of a "Chancellorsville" reenactment to be held this spring somewhere in Isle of Wight County? Is it good, bad, ugly?

Don

[MDConfederate]

The website for the event I believe you are talking about is at 145thchancellorsville.com. It is run by elements of the USV and ANV and is April 4-6. The event appears to be on a site southwest of Norfolk. I considered the event but just can't fit it into my schedule.

John A. Wyman

[cjdaley]

Since it's only an hour from my new house, I might actually look into going as a sutler...

Do you really think think this line is acurate:

"Anticipated attendance for this event is 3,000"

[dedogtent]

Anyone have the link to the website?

[reb4lee]

Anyone have the link to the website?

Here it is. http://145thchancellorsville.com/

[TheQM]

Do you really think think this line is acurate:

"Anticipated attendance for this event is 3,000"

Chris,

Since, it's an ANV max effort event, the attendance should be pretty good, at least for Gray Backs.

[dedogtent]

Here it is. http://145thchancellorsville.com/


Thank you Aaron!

[cjdaley]

Chris,

Since, it's an ANV max effort event, the attendance should be pretty good, at least for Gray Backs.

I haven't been to an event in the last decade that had accuarate numbers. I think the 135th G-burg was the last time they underestimated numbers.

Please understand that my perspective as a sutler is quite different than that of a participant. If an event organizer promises a number, I need to take into account several factors including:

Sutler to participant ratio.
Distance to the event.
Current gas Prices.
Time away from mail orders.
Sutler Fee.

If the numbers are accurate, then I can predict if the cost of doing business at an event will be justified. However, not one event I attended in 2007 had accurate numbers, not even close. Some events were off by 60%.

Predictions for this year:
Chancellorsville: 3,000
High Tide at G-burg: 4,000
Chickamauga: "Largest Civil War Battle of the Decade in the West"
Gettysburg: 10,000-15,000

I know it's hard to predict these things, but don't toss numbers out there in hopes of building up excitement. Vendors are held accountable when we miss our deadlines, I'm not sure why we're not holding event oganizers to the same standard?

[tompritchett]

Since, it's an ANV max effort event, the attendance should be pretty good, at least for Gray Backs.

Given the expected price of gasoline, somehow I suspect that the ANV and USV may not have the degree of support that they would normally expect for Max effort events.

[7thNJcoA]

Our unit is voting on the event Feb 2nd But we always attend Neshaminy for a fun little event (2-3 thousand) and they are using Chancellorsville as there campaign this season.

[Doug Cooper]

If the numbers are accurate, then I can predict if the cost of doing business at an event will be justified. However, not one event I attended in 2007 had accurate numbers, not even close. Some events were off by 60%.

Predictions for this year:
Chancellorsville: 3,000
High Tide at G-burg: 4,000
Chickamauga: "Largest Civil War Battle of the Decade in the West"
Gettysburg: 10,000-15,000

I know it's hard to predict these things, but don't toss numbers out there in hopes of building up excitement. Vendors are held accountable when we miss our deadlines, I'm not sure why we're not holding event oganizers to the same standard?

Realism vs hype in numbers is pretty tough in gauging political rallies, protests and civil war events. Organizers suffer only in reputation when their estimate proves very innacurate. Vendors, preservation beneficiaries and anyone else expecting to make money suffer in their bottom line.

Short of somehow having a cash reserve to cover shortfalls, the only protection for the vendors is to demand public dissemination of the registration list early and often. Organizers who use rediculous generalizations like a couple of those listed above ought to have their credibility checked on this and any other claims they make. Most organizers don't go this crazy, but it is very, very difficult to get close these days. All you can do is count the units and depend on the leaders to get folks there. Early registration discounts, registration deadlines and other techniques help, but it is an inexact exercise, to say the least.

The crazy crowded schedule is to blame as well. Back in the day you had one of these per year, or at most two. The number of smaller or medium sized events was about 50% less than today as well. Too many choices and fewer participants.

BTW, At High Tide is advertising 4000 because that is the event maximum number and registration just opened. I have way more confidence they will get somewhere close to that than the others, but since it is too early to tell, just think of it as a maximum.

This does not answer anything about Chancellorsville, but I sure do like the event site. Would be a good place to hold an annual event and vendor wise, the location is ideal - between the battlefields and the camps and parking.

[tompritchett]

If the numbers are accurate, then I can predict if the cost of doing business at an event will be justified. However, not one event I attended in 2007 had accurate numbers, not even close. Some events were off by 60%.

I am wondering whether or not the percentage of "no-shows" remained approximately constant last year relative to previous years or did it go up with the price of fuel.

[Doug Cooper]

I am wondering whether or not the percentage of "no-shows" remained approximately constant last year relative to previous years or did it go up with the price of fuel.

Honestly Tom, I think the fuel costs are the very least of the reasons why attendance is down. Driving 500 miles on 20 miles per gallon costs $50 at $2.00 per gallon or $75 at $3.00 per gallon. That is 4 trips to McDonalds, 6 latte's or a set of "poor boy suspenders."

[Jim Mayo]

Do you really think think this line is acurate:

"Anticipated attendance for this event is 3,000"

No, but last year they did have enough to have a decent event with some CS galvanizing.


The event is located in Isle of Wright County at the fairgrounds. There are some fences parking lots between the CS and US camps (it is a fairground) but there is lots of other land around for camping and battle. (An ariel view is on the web site referenced earlier in this thread) It is about 1/3 of the way from Suffolk to Petersburg off of Rt. 460. Last year they had US and CS trenches and bleachers for the spectators. The trenches were pretty good and were improved by some work details of CS troops. The location has plenty of camp ground some of which is wooded. Plenty of room for Sutler row which is centrally located. The people treat you pretty good. Actually had an Isle of Wright trooper give me a ride from the Fed camp to the CS camp. Been a long time since I sat in the FRONT seat of a police car.

Is it what the campaigners are looking for? Not really an immersion event. You can camp authentically but the battle is the battle and not much you can do about that. Mainstream folks should have a good time.

[RJSamp]

You can camp authentically but the battle is the battle and not much you can do about that. Mainstream folks should have a good time.

We had 'battles' at Outpost III and camped authentically.....had a lot of fun too. The 'battles' weren't much different than mainstream battles....including too close firing distances at times with not enough casualties, 1 handed carbine firing whilst mounted, lots of power expended, and companies acting like independent battalions.....even a night march and battle in the predawn darkness....and heck, we used rammers and rammed paper.

Events are what you make of them.....and all types of reenactors can have fun at all types of events..... dare to rise to the moment.

[zouavecampaigner]

Don,

there is also ANOTHER C-ville event being held at Loudon Heights. Always a good time there, and no spectators.

Regards,
Shaun

[Anders]

I think when it comes to Number we were pretty close at September Storm- Said we were going for 2,000 military- I think we got a bit over that registred, and maybe about 1700 showed- at least by reigstration counts.

Pards,

[captdougofky]

Perryville 02, Perryville 06, just two that come to mind in the decade. Chickamauga may beat Mill Springs of last year, but the divide in the hobby is to wide in the West for mega events anymore. Using a wide brush in Ads only hurts the one doing it. We know the difference.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

[OVI]

The GAC Gettysburg advertising says 15,000 reenactors expected. If you believe that, you can be sold anything.
The CW Courier is advertising Chickamauga as the "largest" reenactment in the West of the decade. Largest can mean most land, most spectators..not specifically number of reenactors. It's a weasel word at best. It may have a higher ratio of Rebs to Feds than even the Doss Brothers Shiloh RebFest last year.

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

[zouavecampaigner]

The GAC Gettysburg advertising says 15,000 reenactors expected. If you believe that, you can be sold anything.
Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

Kent,

I always have to tell visitors to town that those "expected" numbers are way over inflated, and that they include all the civilians, children, tag-a-longs, generals, staff, spectators who register just to get in cheaper, etc. It would be interesting to take a look at a mainstream event, and compare the number of field effective "soldiers" to the total number of reenactors registered.

Regards,

[OVI]

I would agree Shaun. And it is more typical in the East because of the consumer vs owner event model. I would estimate 30-40 percent of event numbers are the "others". I wonder if there are 10,000 functioning soldiers in the hobby today.

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

[Remise]

I would agree Shaun. And it is more typical in the East because of the consumer vs owner event model. I would estimate 30-40 percent of event numbers are the "others". I wonder if there are 10,000 functioning soldiers in the hobby today.

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

Does anyone recall how many were at 145th Manassas (held at Cedar Creek)? It probably wasn't the 9,000 or so who were at the 140th debacle, but whatever the actual numbers were, it looked pretty good, and I do not recall ever seeing so many (mounted) cavalry at an event since I get into the hobby.

B.C. Milligan
Company K, First Penna. Reserves

[TheQM]

I would agree Shaun. And it is more typical in the East because of the consumer vs owner event model.

Kent,

Here in the East, there are only three events, I'm aware of, which might fit that model these days; the annual Gettysburg, Cedar Creek, and New Market. One is for profit, the other two are for battlefield preservation.

No matter, who's putting on the event, the simple truth is you have a lot more consumers than owners. That holds true, no matter where the event falls on the authenticity scale.

[OVI]

What I meant was that the events you mentioned are held every year with little variation. The model doesnt change much and so the consumers/participants dont either. The model is designed to accommodate whoever wishes to partake to maximize numbers, so as a result, more "others" take part. Authenticity is only a factor because authentics design events for different reasons and different outcomes.

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

[TheQM]

Authenticity is only a factor because authentics design events for different reasons and different outcomes.

Kent,

It's no different. Ask Dusty Chapman, Kevin O'Beirne, Eric Tipton, or Bob Denton what percentage of the participants are activally involved with putting on some of the more authentic events. If it's ten percent, I'd be surprised.

I will give you, at smaller events, no matter where they fit on the authenticity scale, you are more likely to have participants with the same vision of what that event should be.

To get back to Chris Daily's original question. I would suggest there's a lot more than just pure numbers that affects the sutler's sales. Time of the year, location, and time for shopping all come quickly to mind.

[cjdaley]

To get back to Chris Daily's original question. I would suggest there's a lot more than just pure numbers that affects the sutler's sales. Time of the year, location, and time for shopping all come quickly to mind.

Right, and those are factors we also take into account, but if the event organizers aren't honest about numbers and no one is there to shop, then time of year and location won't matter.


BTW, At High Tide is advertising 4000 because that is the event maximum number and registration just opened. I have way more confidence they will get somewhere close to that than the others, but since it is too early to tell, just think of it as a maximum.

Actually Doug, the sutler contract that I had to sign with my registration states "We are expecting approximately 4,000 participants and 1,000 spectators each day".

So which is it? Are they expecting approximately 4,000 or are they limiting it to 4,000?

I know this is a hobby for you guys but with more and more sutlers going belly up and getting 'real' jobs, I fear the hobby will be left with nothing but imported junk if we don't start getting sutlers some honest numbers.

[captdougofky]

Right, and those are factors we also take into account, but if the event organizers aren't honest about numbers and no one is there to shop, then time of year and location won't matter.



Actually Doug, the sutler contract that I had to sign with my registration states "We are expecting approximately 4,000 participants and 1,000 spectators each day".

So which is it? Are they expecting approximately 4,000 or are they limiting it to 4,000?

I know this is a hobby for you guys but with more and more sutlers going belly up and getting 'real' jobs, I fear the hobby will be left with nothing but imported junk if we don't start getting sutlers some honest numbers.

The GAC Gettysburg post the reenactors that have paid so far. Thats a fair way of letting you know. I met you at Perryville a couple of years ago. I realize your wares are not standard fare. Most of your clients will more than likely be at Mr. Anders event the week before. Having a honest count I would not think is to much to ask from anyone. Posting numbers like GAC is doing would take the guess work out of it. I have in the past set up at trade fairs and not even made my gas money. With gas and the cost of daily living, people now have to make choices. Money for hobbies is shrinking as we speak. I Sir understand your concerns. Truth in ads is not to much to ask.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

[Memphis]

Will there be any living histories on the actual Chancellorsville battlefield in addition to battle reenactments several hours away? The 145th anniversary year is 2008, so it makes sense for the NPS to do something.

[cjdaley]

The GAC Gettysburg post the reenactors that have paid so far. Thats a fair way of letting you know. I met you at Perryville a couple of years ago. I realize your wares are not standard fare. Most of your clients will more than likely be at Mr. Anders event the week before. Having a honest count I would not think is to much to ask from anyone. Posting numbers like GAC is doing would take the guess work out of it. I have in the past set up at trade fairs and not even made my gas money. With gas and the cost of daily living, people now have to make choices. Money for hobbies is shrinking as we speak. I Sir understand your concerns. Truth in ads is not to much to ask.

I agree that my customer base will most likely be at the Anders gig, but 80% of my customers are reenactments are new customers so who knows. I've sent in my registration for the first event, but I may decide to set up at both events. (depending on the registration fees)

There are events that post registrations online. That helps give an accurate number leading up the event, but sutlers are required to register in advance. Sometimes a year in advance. This is mainly done to give event organisers seed money to get the event going.

[Dignann]

Will there be any living histories on the actual Chancellorsville battlefield in addition to battle reenactments several hours away? The 145th anniversary year is 2008, so it makes sense for the NPS to do something.
Yes, I do believe the park is hosting some living history events the weekend of May 3-4. I also think Spotsylvania County is planning some kind of living history commemoration on a portion of the battlefield not owned by the NPS.

Eric

[dustyswb]

Bill,

You are correct. MOST participants in ANY event just show up on Friday night and follow orders all weekend.

From my experience, I medium sized event (100-500) participants, with or without public, takes about 1 1/2 years to plan and execute.

In that time, you work with VERY few people in my experience, to help along. This was done on purpose in my events because I pick the right people who multitask.

At Payne's Farm (was that over two years ago now!), we had a planning committee of THREE. Then we had the following folks help out:

Sutler coordinator
Logistics crew of about 12 men
Wood cutting crew of about 10 men
Webpage designer and updater
Toilet man (not a reenactor)
Water supplier (reenactor who lived around the corner)

I'd say about 25 guys total of the 250 participants. Now, we had folks from Europe show up for the event, so they can't be counted on to help much before on site. For this event, about 10% of the guys could say they helped out putting on the event. Without this dedicated 10%, however, NOTHING gets done.

I would think that the percentage would go down quite a bit with events with larger numbers as it is probably the same small number of folks running things.

[Anders]

To answer the AHT numbers question- the event is limited to 4,000 participants AND we expect that many to attend.

I am travelling to Nashville next week to work out the final details with our Western Comrades.

Registration will be posted for AHT beginning no later than April- keep in mind the GAC has a full time business running, and put on thier event for profits. WMHF is 100% volunteer and are doing this for preservation and for the reenactors. We all have real jobs in the real world too.

Pards,