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Cannon Fodder
05-14-2006, 09:04 PM
Shoulder Scales were definitely a big thing early in the war, but did they continue to wear them later as the war drug on?

Ephraim_Zook
05-15-2006, 09:58 AM
Hi!

Look at the question in the context of time and place. Were scales worn out in the field later in the war? Probably not. Were they worn in garrison situations? A bit more likely. Look at the photos in the Library of Congress collection and see what you see.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwphtml/cwphome.html


Shoulder Scales were definitely a big thing early in the war, but did they continue to wear them later as the war drug on?
regards

coffeeboiler
05-27-2006, 01:09 AM
Got a few examples for you here

http://www.cwreenactors.com/~sykes/equipment/LOC_frocks-n-scales.php

EmmanuelDabney
05-28-2006, 06:45 AM
Making a rare statement as I don't study who wore what for the military. However, I recently was at the White Oak Museum in Stafford County, Virginia and the owner of the museum who has a collection of items, also had as I recall four sets of these items. I am not sure from where they first came as I didn't ask.

As stated however, photographs that the National Archives and Library of Congress have will show conditions of troops in the field. They are a source that cannot be passed by.

NJ Sekela
05-28-2006, 05:43 PM
If one checks the National Archives, it is shown that scales continued to be issued even after the close of hostilities. Enclosed are two orders, in RG 92, NARA, for shipment of goods to regiments of US Regulars.
HTTP://WWW.njsekela.com/szabo/scales/Untitled-141.jpg

HTTP://WWW.njsekela.com/szabo/scales/Untitled-142.jpg
HTTP://WWW.njsekela.com/szabo/scales/Untitled-39.jpg
HTTP://WWW.njsekela.com/szabo/scales/Untitled-40.jpg

I will dig through and find some wartime citations. Certainly the Heavy Artillery Regiments were known to have worn them at Cold Harbor.

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela
Manf'r.
N.Jers'y.

http://www.skilletlicker.com
http://www.ejtstutler.com
http://www.carterandjasper.com

NJ Sekela
05-28-2006, 05:44 PM
Owing to the 4 image limit, here is another:

HTTP://WWW.njsekela.com/szabo/scales/scales1.jpg

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela
Manf'r.
N.Jers'y.

http://www.skilletlicker.com
http://www.ejtstutler.com
http://www.carterandjasper.com
Today 10:45 AM

FranklinGuardsNYSM
05-29-2006, 10:16 PM
There's an account of shoulder scales being found in Herbst Woods at Gettysburg, where the Iron Brigade (and, of course, Buford's cavalry) had been deployed.

-Marc Hermann

AZReenactor
05-30-2006, 10:18 AM
Nick,
Thank you for sharing these. Very insightful. I was especially interedsted to see 3oo Leather Stocks listed on the August 17, 1865 order. I was wearing one yesterday with my domet flannel issue shirt for a Memorial Day Color Guard and was asked 3 times if they used neck stocks at the time of the Civil War.

Nice to know they were even requisitioining them in 1865.

Dressed hardee, neck stock, frock coat, polished brass, clean leathers and shoulder scales! Now there is a uniform that says military. ;-)

Lee Ragan
05-30-2006, 10:54 AM
Both shoulder scales & stocks were a part of the U.S. Army dress uniform for enlisted men until the uniform change of 1872. This is when the model 1858 enlisted frock coat was replaced by the new design that didn't use the scales or stocks. (This change also eliminated the NCO sash worn by 1st Sergeants and above.) Of course the Army had a generous "wear-out period", which ment the old style frock coat was still being used for a few more years even tho it had been officially replaced.

NJ Sekela
05-30-2006, 11:42 AM
Sir:

From a larger perspective it may seem cut and dry. When one looks under the hood of the QMD (at least in New York) one sees tremendous amounts of resources being shifted.

For example, you also see stocks of dark blue french trousers and french shirts, being offered to sale to officers, to remove them from inventory. They also had on hand uniforms in "chilren's sizes" also from ("le enfant") France.

One also sees a LOT of Veteran Reserve Corps jackets being shipped all over the country, specifically to regiments in Connecticut, Chicago, Delaware and Rhode Island. It corrected my previous notion that the VRC remained in Washington.

Some of the notations were "blankets to be shipped via slow freight to California, via the Ithsmus."

Cool stuff. I really don't kow if it is possible to nail it down a cut off dates however. From the "human" side of the department, it appears that they were more concerned with juggling the logistics of clothing an army. Practically speaking, they either had to find a use for it, or sell it off.

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela,
Man'fr.
N.Jers'y.

http://www.skilletlicker.com
http://www.ejtsutler.com
http://www.carterandjasper.com

AZReenactor
05-30-2006, 12:33 PM
...Some of the notations were "blankets to be shipped via slow freight to California, via the Ithsmus."

Cool stuff....

Nick, Very Cool stuff indeed. If I didn't know better I would think you were reading my mind and posting items just to taunt me. ;-)

I am particularly interested in the uniforming and equiping of California and Southwestern troops. Sounds like I'm going to have to add Record Group 92 to my list of microfilm records to examine. If only the cost of microfilm hadn't doubled recently... So much microfilm, so little time.

I would certainly appreciate any information you can share regarding quartermaster notes regarding the West coast and Southwest. You can reach me via email at Troy.Groves@AZReenacting.net.

NJ Sekela
05-30-2006, 12:53 PM
http://www.njsekela.com/szabo/ca/49.jpg
http://www.njsekela.com/szabo/ca/50.jpg
http://www.njsekela.com/szabo/ca/51.jpg
http://www.njsekela.com/szabo/ca/52.jpg

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela,
Manf'r.
N.Jers'y.

http://www.skilletlicker.com
http://www.ejtsutler.com
http://www.carterandjasper.com

NJ Sekela
05-30-2006, 12:54 PM
http://www.njsekela.com/szabo/ca/bootees.jpg
I am, &c,

NJ Sekela,
Manf'r.
N.Jers'y.

http://www.skilletlicker.com
http://www.ejtsutler.com
http://www.carterandjasper.com

AZReenactor
05-30-2006, 03:18 PM
Awesome! Thank you.

NJ Sekela
05-30-2006, 03:29 PM
With prior permission and assuming that you comply with the rules, the NARA will allow you to scan the original documents.

Again, the equipment has to meet with their approval, but as you can see, it is a tremendous benefit.

I am, &c,

NJ Sekela,
Manf'r.
N.Jers'y.

http://www.skilletlicker.com
http://www.ejtsutler.com
http://www.carterandjasper.com

Regular3
05-31-2006, 12:02 PM
Nick,
Thank you for sharing these. Very insightful. I was especially interedsted to see 3oo Leather Stocks listed on the August 17, 1865 order. I was wearing one yesterday with my domet flannel issue shirt for a Memorial Day Color Guard and was asked 3 times if they used neck stocks at the time of the Civil War.

Nice to know they were even requisitioining them in 1865.

Dressed hardee, neck stock, frock coat, polished brass, clean leathers and shoulder scales! Now there is a uniform that says military.

Stocks were one of those items that somehow were "lost" very quickly due to their unpopularity. Soldiers being interested more in personal comfort than strict adherence to regs, they no doubt figured it was worth the 75 cent fine (or whatever cost) they'd pay for not having the things, when it would be months before they'd have to worry about a new one showing up. I've been doing a Regular infantry impression for 21 years and although I've been tempted to add a stock, I have never owned one. ;)