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brianf40us
01-03-2008, 07:13 AM
I have been told by someone that there is a monument comemorating slaves/african americans next to the oh so contraversial Confederate flag flying by the south carolina capitol building.

PS what did everyone think of Romneys reaction to the question he was asked at the one debate about the confederate flag.

if you dont know what im talking about search youtube for "Romney confederate flag"

flattop32355
01-03-2008, 10:07 AM
PS what did everyone think of Romneys reaction to the question he was asked at the one debate about the confederate flag.

I think he's correct that modern issues should take up their time.

Wouldn't this subject be better suited for the Whine Cellar?

sbl
01-03-2008, 10:44 AM
"...I have been told by someone that there is a monument comemorating slaves/african americans next to the oh so contraversial Confederate flag flying by the south carolina capitol building. .."

Friday March 23, 2001

S.C.'s new African-American monument sits among Confederate reminders

By The Associated Press

COLUMBIA, S.C. - South Carolina dedicates its monument to African-American history this week on a Statehouse grounds filled with reminders of the Confederacy.

"The semicircular arms of gray granite reach out to embrace a depiction of a slave ship's crammed cargo hold and a map of Africa, where a culture was uprooted. They are lined with 12 bronze panels illustrating 300 years of history. .................................."
http://wc.arizona.edu/papers/94/121/01_93_m.html

tompritchett
01-03-2008, 12:49 PM
Wouldn't this subject be better suited for the Whine Cellar?
Actually the Flags & Statue Conference got my vote given the subject of the post.

Claude Sinclair
01-03-2008, 01:38 PM
Actually the Slave memorial is on the East side and the Confederate Monument is facing North. The Flag is behind the Confederate Monument. Either detracts from the other.

As for Mick Romney's stance on the Confederate Flag in SC, there's more important issues that are more important in getting my vote. I would never vote for a politician based solely on his stance on the Confederate Flag. Bottom line is that someone running for president has very little say regarding where we choose to fly the Confederate Flag in SC.

sbl
01-03-2008, 02:14 PM
"....Bottom line is that someone running for president has very little say regarding where we choose to fly the Confederate Flag in SC...."

But they probably will. (sigh)

reb64
01-03-2008, 02:39 PM
Edwards hates the flag and all things confederate, scalawag by any definition.

Graves Mercantile
01-04-2008, 12:02 AM
Edwards hates the flag and all things confederate, scalawag by any definition.

Edwards hates everybody and everything, just watch him rant about the greedy corporations and his family working at the "mill". What a joke.

The man becomes ridiculously wealthy by stealing from successful companies and injured people and then pretends to care about the less fortunate.

www.ronpaul2008.com

Filthy_Confederate_Scum
01-04-2008, 11:56 AM
Edwards hates the flag and all things confederate, scalawag by any definition. A scalawag was a Southern white who joined the Republican party in the ex-Confederate South during Reconstruction. That lets Edwards off the hook by both time and party affiliation. Two of the most prominent scalawags were General James Longstreet, and Joseph E. Brown, the wartime governor of Georgia. If these two truly great men were scalawags (i.e., men who were unafraid to have the courage of conviction and refused to goosestep to the drumbeat everyone else was marching to) then count me also a scalawag.

Che
01-04-2008, 01:03 PM
The CS flag issue is passť. Drive throught the south sometime. Outside of the Civil War venue the number of CS flags flying from front porches or seen on bumper stickers is noticeable only because of their scarcity. The issue is simply not very important in the grand scheme of things.

flattop32355
01-04-2008, 05:21 PM
There's been a Confederate battle flag painted on the entire south side of a barn roof coming up I-71 from Cincinnati to Columbus for as long as I can remember. I guess that falls into the copperhead camp.

Seems it's still an issue to some.

skamikaze
01-04-2008, 06:43 PM
A scalawag was a Southern white who joined the Republican party in the ex-Confederate South during Reconstruction. That lets Edwards off the hook by both time and party affiliation. Two of the most prominent scalawags were General James Longstreet, and Joseph E. Brown, the wartime governor of Georgia. If these two truly great men were scalawags (i.e., men who were unafraid to have the courage of conviction and refused to goosestep to the drumbeat everyone else was marching to) then count me also a scalawag.

If you remember, the REPUBLICAN party was liberal and the Democrats were conservative until the big switch in 1896 during the Cleveland administration.

tompritchett
01-04-2008, 06:53 PM
Democrats were conservative until the big switch in 1896 during the Cleveland administration.

In more recent times, the Southern wing of the Democratic party, the "Dixiecrats", was also very conservative following FDR and the New Deal up through the defection of many of these individuals to Nixon in the Nixon vs. Humphrey's election in the late 60's. It could be argued that much of this defection was due to a negative backlash by the Dixiecrats towards the Northern Democrats pushing through the needed Civil Rights reforms on the South. (Of course later many of the same integration reforms were then forced upon Northern communities such as Chicago and Boston with similar, but less violent, protests.) I can remember growing up in Kentucky where Republicans such as my Aunt in Louisville would register as Democrats just so that they could vote in a primary. Then the only "Republican" strongholds were in the Louisville area and across the river from Cincinnati.

Mojo1842
01-05-2008, 11:10 AM
There's been a Confederate battle flag painted on the entire south side of a barn roof coming up I-71 from Cincinnati to Columbus for as long as I can remember. I guess that falls into the copperhead camp.

Seems it's still an issue to some.

AAAAAActually, Bernard, the guy that owns that place has that painted on his barn because of ahem... *another party affiliation*.

He used to own the local pool hall here in town.

CheeseBoxRaft
01-05-2008, 11:52 AM
There's been a Confederate battle flag painted on the entire south side of a barn roof coming up I-71 from Cincinnati to Columbus for as long as I can remember. I guess that falls into the copperhead camp. Seems it's still an issue to some. Is it the true Confederate "battleflag" (square) or is it the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack (rectangular) which most people mistake for the battleflag? There is a distinction and it's an important one. Most of those who fly the Naval jack seem to get most of their history from Gone With The Wind reruns.

Ross L. Lamoreaux
01-05-2008, 12:34 PM
Is it the true Confederate "battleflag" (square) or is it the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack (rectangular) which most people mistake for the battleflag? There is a distinction and it's an important one. Most of those who fly the Naval jack seem to get most of their history from Gone With The Wind reruns.
Lest we forget that the Confederate Army of Tennessee did indeed use a rectangular battle flag for some regiments, particularly regiments from Tennessee and Florida attached to the Dept of Georgia, Alabama, and West Tennessee, mostly regiments formed in 1862. For instance, the flags of the 6th and 7th Florida (of which the 6th's is in the Florida state museum in Tallahassee) were rectangular battleflags with the words "6th (or 7th) regt" in the red above the cross and the words "Fla Vols" in the red below the cross. There are several other documented flags in state museums and the MoC that are rectangular, not just naval jacks.

reb64
01-08-2008, 10:21 AM
A scalawag was a Southern white who joined the Republican party in the ex-Confederate South during Reconstruction. That lets Edwards off the hook by both time and party affiliation. Two of the most prominent scalawags were General James Longstreet, and Joseph E. Brown, the wartime governor of Georgia. If these two truly great men were scalawags (i.e., men who were unafraid to have the courage of conviction and refused to goosestep to the drumbeat everyone else was marching to) then count me also a scalawag.


the parties have changed sop much i consider him a scalawag nevertheless. hes a yankee politician in southern disguises.

reb64
01-08-2008, 10:24 AM
Is it the true Confederate "battleflag" (square) or is it the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack (rectangular) which most people mistake for the battleflag? There is a distinction and it's an important one. Most of those who fly the Naval jack seem to get most of their history from Gone With The Wind reruns.


check flag photos, some were rectangular too. maybe not official, but rectangular.

flattop32355
01-11-2008, 12:17 PM
Is it the true Confederate "battleflag" (square) or is it the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack (rectangular) which most people mistake for the battleflag? There is a distinction and it's an important one. Most of those who fly the Naval jack seem to get most of their history from Gone With The Wind reruns.

'Tis rectangular in shape, to fit the roof, so I suppose you can call it the naval jack. My guess is he just wanted it to cover that entire side of the roof.

tompritchett
01-11-2008, 04:29 PM
My guess is he just wanted it to cover that entire side of the roof.

There you go, inserting logic in a perfectly good argument. :wink:

Parault
01-12-2008, 10:01 AM
There you go, inserting logic in a perfectly good argument. :wink:

I hate it when that happens:rolleyes:

jat
01-12-2008, 11:05 AM
Hey, I think one person said that the flag was the stars and bars, was it not the navy jack. I thought the stars and bars was the the first national.

Parault
01-12-2008, 01:48 PM
The stars and bars is the first national

2nd_mi_johnny
01-12-2008, 09:00 PM
The stars and bars is the first national

No the First national was the circle of Stars, on a blue black ground with a white stripe sandwhiched between two Red ones It was also the battle flag but it fell out of favor due to its resemblance to the United States battle flag The Stars and Bars; Incase we're not talking about the same thing; the battle standard, was exactly that.. the battle flag, though some do refure to it as the 'third national' I don't believe that the confederate battle flag was ever established as the national flag for the confederate states of america., though on that I may be wrong.

Spinster
01-13-2008, 01:43 AM
Since there seems to be some confusion, lets turn to some handy links--put up by some folks who have had a good bit of political infighting as to the various flags.

The First National--The Stars and Bars
http://sos.georgia.gov/museum/html/flag_1861-1863.htm

The Second National-- The Stainless Banner
http://sos.georgia.gov/museum/html/flag_1863-1865.htm

The Third National-Last Flag
http://sos.georgia.gov/museum/html/flag_1865.htm

Differentiation should also be made that these are flags of the government. Various military branches and units carried other versions.

Beauregard's flag design,submitted into the competition that chose the First National design, was the familar blue cross on a red field--and produced in a square version on the suggestion of the Quartermaster.

The rectangular version of the same design became the Naval Jack by 1863

As Che mentions, the Confederate flag, in its Naval Jack version, is far less common in homes and yards in the South. Today, it seems to be most commonly seen hanging as curtains in the homes of college students living off campus. (Yeah, honey, that's what my folks fought and died for, some yahoo's right to have curtains)

Interestingly, whats on the rise is the flying of the First National--on any given day, I can locate 5 such within a mile of my home, in a historic district. Not that these are antebellum homes--most were built from 1900-1920. Still, the First National seems to be a sort of 'in crowd' wink and nod around here--especially since the Alabama Senate removed the Beauregard flag about a decade ago, and substituted the First National.

2nd_mi_johnny
01-13-2008, 04:29 PM
Thank you for the clarification, I got confused on rather the Stars and Bars was the first national, or if it was in refferance to the first national (Which was also the first official battle flag, and was discontinued for the reason I mentioned in my last post on this matter. I stand corrected about what I called the stars and bars though

Thank you Mrs. Lawson

Johnny