are we happy yet

[brianf40us]

WEll what i see with reenacting is it being divided into twp halves (mainstreamers and campaigners) i think it is rediculous that we would ruin such a hobby that all of us would agree that we are into it to help keep civil war history alive.
Anyone that does not see this split just look at this years gettysburg. now we are having two reenactments one in june and one in july. Im sorry but what was the problem with just having one in july. I will not attend the one in june because i view it as trying to destroy the reenactment in july. I know we get treated like crap at Gettysburg (AKA no rides for reenactors to the sutlers, expensive ice ETC.....) but i overlook this because i am there to help people understand the civil war. This nonsense with two reenactments about the same battle is stupid and if both sides of reenacting could come togehter this hobby will live on but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn.

[Huck Finn]

Same music. Same lyrics. Move along now, nothing to see.

[huntdaw]

"...but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn."

No, it won't.

[tenfed1861]

Some people don't feel like going to Gettysburg and basically being a carnivial.When you have fair rides (from how I heard it one year),funnel cakes,cheap fair souviners,and bad battles just to name a few,people aren't going to drive a distance for that.You said you want to help people understand the war.How can you when you have funnel cakes,a sea of canvas,and pretty much a fair going on?People will be more interested with a fair.They are having the living history to really help people.They can set up a bivouac camp,throw some salted pork on a fire,and show people what happened what happened.
Most of us will agree that the battles are the farbiest part of the hobby.That is why there will be a living history.To show the drill tactics,life on the march,and talk about socio-economical issues of a particular unit.Reenactor wise;some of us feel like getting more into a period mind set.At Chickamauga,we did night marching,rations issued,posted pickets,formed a skirmish line on Dyer Field.We were tired,hungry,sweaty.Many of us suffered from poison ivy,(my whole arm was covered and I suffered from it for a month and half).We were able to get into the mind set a little better.We would not have been able to do that in a sea of tents,corn dogs and cola with a joke battle being the high point of the day.
I agree with your post.The fighting is causing troubles in the hobby.How many people got out because they were tired of all the fighting.So I do understand what you are saying.I hope you can understand what I am saying.

[Justin Runyon]

"...but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn."

No, it won't.

What he said.

[bill watson]

"...but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn."


Nah, the hobby that's about history will have no impact at all on the hobby that thinks its all about proximity to sutlers, ice, propane stoves and riding the tumbrel shuttle to camp.

Unless some of those folks realize the hobby is supposed to be about history. Gettysburg didn't become a national shrine because two armies gathered there to cook weiners and shop.

[HighPrvt]

WEll what i see with reenacting is it being divided into twp halves (mainstreamers and campaigners) i think it is rediculous that we would ruin such a hobby that all of us would agree that we are into it to help keep civil war history alive.
Anyone that does not see this split just look at this years gettysburg. now we are having two reenactments one in june and one in july. Im sorry but what was the problem with just having one in july. I will not attend the one in june because i view it as trying to destroy the reenactment in july. I know we get treated like crap at Gettysburg (AKA no rides for reenactors to the sutlers, expensive ice ETC.....) but i overlook this because i am there to help people understand the civil war. This nonsense with two reenactments about the same battle is stupid and if both sides of reenacting could come togehter this hobby will live on but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn.


If you could hear the comments, and giggles from the audience at mainstream reenactments I've overheard, most of y'all FARBS would be embarrassed to take the field.
The premise that y'all hold dear to your heart, that they don't know how silly you are, and how wrong your stuff is, well it's just wrong....

You are being laughed at, at every event...

[Rob Weaver]

Us vs Them from the thread title - may be a record here folks. At the risk of sounding hypocritical, I refuse to post an opinion in UvT threads because they demean us all. Here endeth my catechism.

[KeystoneGuard]

Amen to that.

A re-enactment should not be a "carnival", if I want that I'll go to Knobels Amusement Park (free admission). I'm in this hobby to preserve and educate about this time in our countries history, not eat hot dogs and funnel cakes.

"so ends the reading"

[Craig L Barry]

Crash and burn? It won't and it hasn't. The hobby is there and it is essentially what you choose to make of it. We have more opportunities to do a variety of events and LHs, more quality gear available than we ever have had, and better research being published for those inclined toward "getting it right."

There are actually two hobbies, not one w/ two "separate" divisions and the common thread is US Civil War historical interpretation. For you history buffs, think Protestant Reformation. As far as I can tell it did not prove to be the end of the Catholic church.

[ejazzyjeff]

Brianf40us, this year you should attend the June event, you still help people understand about the civil war, but without the other distractions. It may not change you mind, but you will see a difference.


This nonsense with two reenactments about the same battle.

Go to the website At High Tide (located on this forum), you will see that this event is not about the whole battle of Gettysburg, but certain parts of the battle that take place during those days. The scenarios are coordinated to match the time line of the actual battle scenario and the actual movement of the troops, it’s not a stand there an hour within 50 feet of each other firing volleys.

[RJSamp]

it’s not a stand there an hour within 50 feet of each other firing volleys.

Descriptions of the recent Outpost III Spring Hill TN 'battles' should be analyzed elsewhere.

[Chip]

WEll what i see with reenacting is it being divided into twp halves (mainstreamers and campaigners) i think it is rediculous that we would ruin such a hobby that all of us would agree that we are into it to help keep civil war history alive.
Anyone that does not see this split just look at this years gettysburg. now we are having two reenactments one in june and one in july. Im sorry but what was the problem with just having one in july. I will not attend the one in june because i view it as trying to destroy the reenactment in july. I know we get treated like crap at Gettysburg (AKA no rides for reenactors to the sutlers, expensive ice ETC.....) but i overlook this because i am there to help people understand the civil war. This nonsense with two reenactments about the same battle is stupid and if both sides of reenacting could come togehter this hobby will live on but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn.


Taking our delayed time stamp into consideration (eight hours behind), ever notice how these threads usually get started right about the time that the writer could potentially have 3-4 barley "pops" helping to influence their thinking?;)

[RJSamp]

WEll what i see with reenacting is it being divided into twp halves (mainstreamers and campaigners) i think it is rediculous that we would ruin such a hobby that all of us would agree that we are into it to help keep civil war history alive.
Anyone that does not see this split just look at this years gettysburg. now we are having two reenactments one in june and one in july. Im sorry but what was the problem with just having one in july. I will not attend the one in june because i view it as trying to destroy the reenactment in july. I know we get treated like crap at Gettysburg (AKA no rides for reenactors to the sutlers, expensive ice ETC.....) but i overlook this because i am there to help people understand the civil war. This nonsense with two reenactments about the same battle is stupid and if both sides of reenacting could come togehter this hobby will live on but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn.

Actually there are THREE hobbies, and it's guys like you and events like 'GAC Gburg' and 'Chic, CFreak' that can't differentiate between Farb, Mainstream, and CPH that are splitting this hobby and ruining the mainstream hobby. We need more McDowell's, At High Tide, South Mountain, September Storm, NSA Mill Springs....and less old timey pop tart fests.... Why doesn't GAC run a recyling program at their events? Why do they have to in the first place?

Why is GAC running this thing EVERY year....enough already. We are very glad to see them fold up their tent from 2 per year in the 1990's to only 1 per year.....and no one lost any sleep when they folded their SAME WEEKEND event in 1998. We came together as one event in 1998, not run by GAC.....let's do it again in 2008.....but HISTORICALLY ORIENTED. GAC doesn't have a clue on how to run a reenactment. They might be able to give some advice to our local Ren Faire.....

[Memphis]

Doesn't that 1998 135th anniversary medallion have a big red Gettysburg Anniversary Committee star on it?

[Rob Murray]

I'm happy! But with no rides to the sutlers and expensive or no ice, I must be going to the wrong events.

Rob Murray

[ButtermilkRanger]

I'm happy! But with no rides to the sutlers and expensive or no ice, I must be going to the wrong events.

Rob Murray

They have ice at reenactments? How do you keep it from ruining everything in your haversack? I must have been away from the hobby too long. The next thing you're going to tell me is that people actually bring coolers to an event to keep the ice in and sleep in big ol' wall tents on cots.

Say it ain't so!

Larry Morgan
Buttermilk Rangers LHC

[Kevin O'Beirne]

"Can't we all just get along?"


just look at this years gettysburg. now we are having two reenactments one in june and one in july. Im sorry but what was the problem with just having one in july.

First, I'd doubt that it's correct to call the June event at Gettysburg a "campaigner" event--it'll have 4,000 participants and that sure isn't "campaigners only".

Why can't there be only one Gettysburg 2008 event? Ask the folks running them. The two different sponsoring entities have different motives that are probably diametrically opposed: the GAC (July event) is run by town merchants and its goal is to bring in tourists to spend money in the town's businesses--that's always been the GAC's goal. The June eent (a.k.a. "Andersburg") is a non-profit venture being run by reenactors for reenactors. If I were attending a Gettysburg event in 2008, it wouldn't take a Ph.D. to figure out where I'd be: at the one that's run by reenactors, instead of the one that's run by moneychangers-in-the-temple.

[flattop32355]

WEll what i see with reenacting is it being divided into twp halves (mainstreamers and campaigners) i think it is rediculous that we would ruin such a hobby that all of us would agree that we are into it to help keep civil war history alive.
Anyone that does not see this split just look at this years gettysburg. now we are having two reenactments one in june and one in july. Im sorry but what was the problem with just having one in july. I will not attend the one in june because i view it as trying to destroy the reenactment in july. I know we get treated like crap at Gettysburg (AKA no rides for reenactors to the sutlers, expensive ice ETC.....) but i overlook this because i am there to help people understand the civil war. This nonsense with two reenactments about the same battle is stupid and if both sides of reenacting could come togehter this hobby will live on but if we have people that view them selves as a BETTER REENACTORS (more historically correct) that want to make seperate events this hobby will crash and burn.

All kinds of possibilities here: Flame bait, someone concerned about possible fragmentation of the hobby, someone with financial/emotional ties to the GAC event, many, many others....

As one would (should?) expect, the rhetoric and emotion started out at a high level, and the Us vs Them "debate" went into overdrive.

Can anything be salvaged from it? Probably not, but I just started vacation and have some time this morning, plus I'm feeling in a generous and mellow mood, so here goes my effort to make silk out of a sow's ear....

"Brian" (I have no clue if it's your real name, as your profile gives zero info on you),

Our beloved hobby is "divided" along more than two lines. Why this should be a surprise to anyone requires ignoring any other hobby, sport, etc in our culture. There are always those who choose to be "duffers" (to use a golf metaphor) who take whatever hobby/sport casually. There are those who want to get better, but can't or won't go beyond a certain level of convenience/interest to "improve" to the point of being really good at it. There are those who go at it driven to be the best at it. And there's lots of folks who fall into the spaces in between.

What one end of the hobby can't understand about the other end is why they insist that the hobby must be done "their way" or it's not worth doing. The other end can't understand why those other guys aren't as passionate about the hobby as they are. Throw in a nice mix of horse's arses in all aspects of the hobby who just like to rain on other people's parades, and you know what you get? The same thing as any other hobby, just with its own, unique flavorings.

Some folks may disagree, but I'd wager that darn near everyone who does this crazy hobby believes that he/she is contributing positively to the hobby as a whole, and is "teaching history" to the masses, honoring those who fought, and doing things "right". Our problem seems to be the definition of "right"; it varies from person to person, and short of actually being in that war, there's no way to be completely "right".

As for the two events for G'burg splitting the hobby, let's take a look at that a bit more closely.

At one time, there were two G'burgs being done each year. It was before my time in the hobby begain, so I'm not sure on the details; as best I surmise, it was a move by two different groups to try to cash in (read that "for profit") on the popularity of Gettysburg, arguably the Mecca of CW reenacting. In the end, only one survived, but the distaste by some reenactors to the driving force of the events being, not history, but commercialism, spectacle and profit caused them to seek a different emphasis on the events they attended. It was an honorable goal, even if not always so honorable in its practice by some of that view's adherents. (The same could be said about some anywhere along the reenacting spectrum.)

I've been to the traditional G'burg reenactment once, in 2003 for the 140th, as a spectator; shelled out the big bucks, was amazed at the number of reenactors present (even though reduced by the rescheduling) as well as the number of spectators and vendors. I also noticed many, many things that just didn't seem correct to me as a CW history afficionado, plus the circus atmosphere, even though I was part of the circus. While the excitement and spectacle and size appealed to me on one level, it disturbed me on another, more historical level, causing much mulling over of what I had seen.

Fast forward to my becoming a reenactor. On the spectrum between "duffer" and "professional", I picture myself falling somewhere to the right of center but no where near that far end; mainstream with a progressive bent who attends some campaigner events while maintaining loyalty to my mainstream home unit. I like events that will challenge me, that stretch my perceived limits, while at the same time wanting to lay back and "taste the funnel cakes" on occasion at other events. At none of them do I want to be bored out of my skull, or be subjected to officers who don't know their jobs and scenarios that are a mockery of even vain attempts to display something to the public.

Now, for the two G'burg events this coming year: One is the event that survived the dual events from years past. It is open to anyone who chooses to participate, with very few restrictions on impression. It is a known quantity. You, yourself, recognize some of its "shortcomings". To be honest, for the two specific ones you listed, I've never thought of those as negatives, as I don't expect either from any event. But I'd expect we both agree on any number of other "shortcomings" at that venue.

The other is a new one, the first time it's been tried. The focus of that event is to be different from the other one, being organized by reenactors and geared to the experience of those who will participate rather than for spectator satisfaction or for profit by the organizers. The number of reenactors is limited to 4000. It will have more stringent standards for impressions and scenarios, but having attended similar events in the past, put on by the same folks, it doesn't take that much effort to meet those standards.

Some folk in the hobby will be more comfortable attending the GAC event. Some will get more enjoyment from the other. Some would like to attend both, and some of those will, unfortunately, find that they are unable to do so. It is also probable that some who attend one have absolutely no desire to attend the other. Each will chose what is best for him/her. For me, that will be the June event, as it is geared more towards what I personally want from the hobby. It is neither a right nor a wrong decision; it's just what I prefer.

One of my goals in the hobby is to progressively become a "better" reenactor. I think it's safe to say that is true for most reenactors.

For me, that means increasing the accuracy of my equipment and impression, and trying to become more like "they" were, up to a point at which I am capable and satisfied with my effort to portray a Civil War soldier. I know I can't get there, but I can get somewhat closer. My goals are unique to me; others will have variations on the theme, but will flavor theirs in their own ways.

I don't see it, in this case, as the events competing with each other for exactly the same people (although, admittedly, it can and will be perceived by some as being so, and some will be torn between one or the other), but as offering alternative choices to those of differing reenacting styles. It would be wonderful if we all agreed on how best to do our personal version of the hobby, but like in everything else in life, that just won't happen.

At best, at some point we may all get together at some event, G'burg or other some other, and the entire hobby can be on the same field at the same time, with everyone tolerating each others differences and focusing on our shared goals. Unfortunately, such a venue does not exist at the present time, and possibly never will or can. We'll have to wait to see what the future holds.

[tompritchett]

WEll what i see with reenacting is it being divided into twp halves (mainstreamers and campaigners)

I am going to respond to the initial question and then close the thread as it is definitely turning into another "us" versus "them" war.

Basically the reason that the hobby (or hobbies) has split along two basic divisions is that every reenactor has different primary reasons for pursuing the hobby. These reasons tend to fall into two basic categories: 1) to have a good time in an historical setting and 2) to relive history as accurately as possible in a safe manner. Neither side is "right" nor is either side necessarily "wrong" (the wrong only comes into play when someone claims to be correctly portraying history to the public when in reality they are not). Events have developed to cater to these different reenactor expectations. Some reenactors attend events catered towards only one type reenactor expectations, while others attend both types of events. The key for the reenactor is to select the events that meet his or her expectations and to set his or her expectations for a specific event based upon the event guidelines themselves and not some set of idealized expectations. As for the rest of the bickering, I tend to ignore them as I found that focusing on others' dissatisfactions can only degrade my own personal enjoyment of the hobby. My focus is only on my impression and the impression of my unit members.

In the case of the two Gettysburg events, Ander's event was created at the request of reenactors across the hobby (many of those requests were made here on this forum) who wanted to attend a Gettysburg event that focused more on the history of the event so that they could enjoy reliving that history rather than attending a large reenactor show geared primarily towards the enjoyment of the spectators. The primary draw for the reenactors for this latter event is participating in the large troop formations that this event typically draws, especially on the 5 year anniversaries. Having two Gettysburg reenactments, IMHO, is merely having two events that address two different general reenactor expectations and thus generally are addressing two different groups in the hobby. Granted, there are some in the hobby that can enjoy both types of reenactment, but, they still have the option of attending both if logistically possible.

[tompritchett]

Bernard, I am glad you got your response in as I was typing mine. It was a good response and made some points that I missed in mine.