Shelter/dog tents

[Poor Private]

Has anyone taken the time to compile, and diagram the different ways a dog tent can be set up?

[MarkTK36thIL]

I don't have my copy of Hardtack and Coffee, but I believe there are pictures in it.

You might try locating an Edwin Forbes book. He was an artist that travelled with the Federal army.

Arguably one of the best image accounts of the war are his books, many of the daily chores and habits of enlisted men.

[flattop32355]

I assume you mean both individually and with other shelter halves.

Many, many ways, from the simple lean-to to roofing over winter quarters log huts to a multi-half shebang to 2-4 buttoned together to make traditional or long shelter tents.

Or you can just use it as another blanket or ground cloth.

In hot weather, you could stake them up off the ground for better ventilation.

Most likely, if you can think of a way, it was probably done then at least once.

[Claude Sinclair]

I do know that most people set up a dog tent incorrectly. Most will reverse a side of the shelter half and button both rows of buttons. When a side is reversed it defeats the reason for the button end on the end. The buttons on the end were to join other halves to make a longer shelter and are not there to add a triangle end enclosure. Those type of ends didn't come into play until the end of the 1800's. I have set up four halves and made a longer tent just to see how it would look. I have also set up four halves and made a large fly for about 4 people to get under. I would suggest picking up Fred Gaude's(sic) book on Shether Tents and look at the various set-ups.

Regards,
Claude Sinclair

[RJSamp]

I do know that most people set up a dog tent incorrectly. Most will reverse a side of the shelter half and button both rows of buttons. When a side is reversed it defeats the reason for the button end on the end. The buttons on the end were to join other halves to make a longer shelter and are not there to add a triangle end enclosure. Those type of ends didn't come into play until the end of the 1800's. I have set up four halves and made a longer tent just to see how it would look. I have also set up four halves and made a large fly for about 4 people to get under. I would suggest picking up Fred Gaude's(sic) book on Shether Tents and look at the various set-ups.

Regards,
Claude Sinclair

yea those triangle thingies are a hoot.....

They must have been pretty skinny to use 3 shelter halves, 1 as a 'bell' end, and sleep 3 per 'tent'......

us 6'3" ground pounders just get wet.....

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Has anyone taken the time to compile, and diagram the different ways a dog tent can be set up?

Not that I've ever heard of, but then again, with such an open-ended question, one might as well ask if someone has categorized all the ways in which a soldier might be creative in the use of his "kit". Whether in diagrams in history books about soldier life (or diaries and memoirs, such as "The Civil War Journals of John Mead Gould"), I've read of numerous ways that ingenious soldiers set up shelter. To boot, I've seen most of 'em in use by reenactors, along with other ingenious ways of constructing shelter that I haven't seen in history books, but that certainly appear to be done entirely with period materials available to soldiers.

Reading is great, but at a certain point some "experimentation" in the field is also useful, educational, and probably historically accurate as well.

[Claude Sinclair]

yea those triangle thingies are a hoot.....

They must have been pretty skinny to use 3 shelter halves, 1 as a 'bell' end, and sleep 3 per 'tent'......

us 6'3" ground pounders just get wet.....

I am 6' and I put up the tent at the correct height and I sleep the width of the tent with room to spare. I have instructed others to sleep that way and they have been surprised at the added room they have. Two can sleep comfortable that way without their head or feet exposed to the elements.

Claude Sinclair

[MarkTK36thIL]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/12/14/1644238/Home%2C%20Sweet%20Home.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/12/14/1644238/The%20Picket%20Line.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/12/14/1644238/Picket%20Hut.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/12/14/1644238/Coffee%20Coolers.jpg

[RJSamp]

I am 6' and I put up the tent at the correct height and I sleep the width of the tent with room to spare. I have instructed others to sleep that way and they have been surprised at the added room they have. Two can sleep comfortable that way without their head or feet exposed to the elements.

Claude Sinclair

Can't put two 6'3" guys diagonally under two shelter halves at the same time Claude.....and I always slept diagonally in mine.....but alone.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

I agree with RJ on this one. I'm 6 feet 1.5 inches tall and a 5.5-foot long shelter half (or two of them) doesn't cover me that well in a driving rainstorm, regardless of how it's set up. :)

[Parault]

I have been known to just wrap up in one half of the shelter when on campaign,to stay warm ,or to slow down the rain from soaking through,when the other person who said that they would be there with the other half didn't show up.


It would be captivating to see a book with all the ways you can erect a shelter tent. I can only envision how substantial this book would be.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

I have been known to just wrap up in one half of the shelter when on campaign,to stay warm ,or to slow down the rain from soaking through,when the other person who said that they would be there with the other half didn't show up.

It would be captivating to see a book with all the ways you can erect a shelter tent. I can only envision how substantial this book would be.

I've used my shelter half as an extra, lightweight blanket and even as a groundcloth many times. While it's great to sleep outdoors under the stars when the weather's nice, I've had it rain on me many times when I was doing that. While I figure that I'll dry out from such an experience, while being rained on it's not particularly fun, and a more-accurate repro shelter half will soak through in about 60 seconds.

The book of which you speak is unnecessary. Instead, experiment in the field with ways to set up a shelter half, or halves, as the case may be.

One of the quickest and easiest ways to erect a shelter tent is to carry a couple wooden tent pegs in your knapsack and, after buttoning your half to your comrade's, fix bayonets, bayonet your long-arm to the ground, and use the long-arms as the "uprights" for your shelter tent. Most folks who've done it can erect shelter this way in about five minutes or less.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

"One of the quickest and easiest ways to erect a shelter tent is to carry a couple wooden tent pegs in your knapsack and, after buttoning your half to your comrade's, fix bayonets, bayonet your long-arm to the ground, and use the long-arms as the "uprights" for your shelter tent. Most folks who've done it can erect shelter this way in about five minutes or less."

But due to the soft, untreated mild steel in Indian/Pakistani bayonets- they can often spend longer than five minutes trying to bend them back to straight after 'every which way AND loose.'
:-) :-)

Just a-funnin'...

Curt
Proud Member of the Jocularity Rifles

[TheQM]

You tall guys might try my system. I get a couple of sticks about a foot long and lift up one edge of my dog tent. I sleep crossways and let my feet stick out, covered by a rubber blanket. Three guys would be a plan. Two guys supply the tent. Use the third guy's shelter half to close the side where the wind in blowing. Two rubber blankets on the ground and one to cover everybody's feet.

BTW, correct shelter halves don't leak if they are pitched tightly and nobody touches the cloth.

[tompritchett]

But due to the soft, untreated mild steel in Indian/Pakistani bayonets- they can often spend longer than five minutes trying to bend them back to straight after 'every which way AND loose.'

Tell me about it. I tried Kevin's trick once of sticking the bayonette into the ground while attached to my rifle for the purpose of making a shebang with a groundcloth. The bayonette bent causing the rifle to become so off centered that everything came crashing down even before we could get the second rifle in the ground.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

But due to the soft, untreated mild steel in Indian/Pakistani bayonets- they can often spend longer than five minutes trying to bend them back to straight after 'every which way AND loose.'


Everytime I recommend that reenacctors pitch a shelter tent like original soldiers did -- using long-arms bayonetted to the ground -- someone always trots out the fact that repro bayonets are weaker steel than originals and so if you do this (pitch the tent this way) it's virtually guaranteed that your bayonet will quickly be rendered useless for anything.

That impression is false. Yes, the bayonets are weaker. I've seen them bend to huge angles with fairly little force applied to them. Pitching a shelter tent the way I recommend will potentially stress the bayonet so that it might bend. All that's true. BUT... it's not guaranteed. I've pitched a shelter tent this way several times with my REPRO bayonet with no ill effects. Hence, I avoid the blanket precautions because I've observed that is IS possible to do this with a repro bayonet.

Of course, an original bayonet is always the best bet, but not everyone has $100 or more to spend on one.

Kevin "Myth Busters Mess" O'Beirne

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Tell me about it. I tried Kevin's trick once of sticking the bayonette into the ground while attached to my rifle for the purpose of making a shebang with a groundcloth. The bayonette bent causing the rifle to become so off centered that everything came crashing down even before we could get the second rifle in the ground.

The key here is to apply brainpower to do it intelligently. Avoid stressing the bayonet. To do that, one bayonets it to the ground, bayonets the other to the ground, stakes out the tent, and as the next to last step catches the "ridge" of the tent under the gun hammers, and as the last step stake down the ropes that are atached to the "ridge" of each shelter half as-pitched.

Apply the same practice as tightening and loosening lug nuts when changing a tire. It's necessary to avoid stressing it too much in one direction. Pitching a tent like this while putting all the stress onto one repro bayonet is, indeed, virtually inviting it to bend.

Kevin "Gotta 'Splain Dis Stuff Mess" O'Beirne

[Silas]

Three guys would be a plan. Two guys supply the tent. Use the third guy's shelter half to close the side where the wind in blowing. Two rubber blankets on the ground and one to cover everybody's feet.

Did that with two other guys on a wet, cold November night in Northern Virginia. Two gums down. One blanket on top ; one on the bottom. Two of us had greatcoats, so we put those atop the topmost blanket. With the remaining gum, we put a couple feet of it at the foot of our bedding and folded the reamining 4-1/2 feet on top of our legs. This made it tougher for any of us to kick a foot out the blankets and let in a bunch of cold air. The folding method is something I usually employ when combining blankets and gums with others.

We kept the remaining blanket in reserve to apply as we thought best. By the time our home was pitched it had stopped raining. The remaining blanket was placed on the open end of the shelter. We slept warm and dry while others were miserable.

We ran a rope or some heavy twine between a couple trees upon which we suspended the canvas. We pitched the pair of halves pretty low to the ground. Could't sit up without a head hitting the canvas. Many folks make the error of pitching it high.

There's really no one way to pitch shelter tents. What works well in some situations is overkill or unnecessary in others.

I made my half by using period spec's. My shelter had several years in the field. One of my tentmates had a new half. The buttons didn't match well as mine has shrank over time. It was a period moment.

[TheQM]

We ran a rope or some heavy twine between a couple trees upon which we suspended the canvas. We pitched the pair of halves pretty low to the ground. Could't sit up without a head hitting the canvas. Many folks make the error of pitching it high.

Silas,

The only problem with pitching the shelter tent close to the ground is you are more likely touch the cloth from the inside. Not an issue unless it's raining!

[Rob Weaver]

If you can drive the bayonet deeply into soft ground, you'll be fine. One of my bayonets is living proof that they bend when you try to pitch a dogtent this way. Anyone who's seen me fix bayonets on my Springfield has seen that wicked home-made scimitar of mine. (Or is it a Tulwar? Robert E Howard used that word a lot, and I just wanted to use it once in my life.)

Everytime I recommend that reenacctors pitch a shelter tent like original soldiers did -- using long-arms bayonetted to the ground -- someone always trots out the fact that repro bayonets are weaker steel than originals and so if you do this (pitch the tent this way) it's virtually guaranteed that your bayonet will quickly be rendered useless for anything.

That impression is false. Yes, the bayonets are weaker. I've seen them bend to huge angles with fairly little force applied to them. Pitching a shelter tent the way I recommend will potentially stress the bayonet so that it might bend. All that's true. BUT... it's not guaranteed. I've pitched a shelter tent this way several times with my REPRO bayonet with no ill effects. Hence, I avoid the blanket precautions because I've observed that is IS possible to do this with a repro bayonet.

Of course, an original bayonet is always the best bet, but not everyone has $100 or more to spend on one.

Kevin "Myth Busters Mess" O'Beirne

[Silas]

We based the height upon how much space do three people need laying on their backs plus some room on each side of the tent so neither end soldier is laying against one of the sides.

The math works this way :

Each half is approximately 66" long - when new. The total length of a pair of halves would be 132". Subtract four inches for buttoning - two inches from each half - and you've got a length of 128".

Each person is approximately 24" wide from shoulder to shoulder. With three of us, that's roughly six feet. The only variable is how much space between each end soldier and the edge of the canvas.

Using the Pythagorean theorem, you can use these two measurements - each divided by two - to determine the height of the ridge pole or height of the rope slung between two trees.

128/2 = 64. This represents the length of the half and is the diagonal measurement or the "C - squared" in the theorem.

72 + 12 = 84/2 = 42. This represents three men with six inches of space between each end man and the canvas. This is the "B - squared."

AxA + 42x42 = 64x64. This makes the height a tad over 48 inches when there is only six inches of space for each outside man and a tent wall. If the space is kicked out to a foot, the height becomes a tad more than 42 inches.

My copy of Gaede's work on shelter tents coincidently states, "[t]he poles for War-time shelter tents needed to be about 4 feet in length to achieve a usable pitch to the tent." Two other period comments have the poles being about four feet long. A period comment from a New Jersey soldier describes the poles - actually sticks - as being "about three feet in length and three-quarters of an inch in diameter..."

Under the two possibilities for which I've done the math, the guy in the middle can sit up, but the other two cannot. It's no big deal because the shelter gets torn down and moved to a new location the next evening where the math gets repeated - only no one is pulling out calculators to figure out optimum spacings.

Carrying a pair of issue ridge poles would solve the problem about adequate space inside the tent, but I've only seen a handful of repro poles in the field. Don't know if I'd want to carry one. Too much length - even when halved - to carry adequately when on campaign.

[10TN]

Good day gentlemen- just a couple of notes to post

As to 'triangle thingies"-to neither approve or disapprove I first call your attention to the thrid illustraion in the above post which seems to shoe a 'dog tent' with a triangle endpiece of some kind. Second- the following citatation from the book "With Sherman to the Sea" , the C.W. Diaries and Reminiscences of Theodore F. Upson is called to your attentionMr. Upson served in the 100th Ind.

"May 28, 1864-in front of Kennesaw

"We are supplied with what the boys call pup tents. We each have a piece of canvas nearly 7 ft. long, 31/2 ft. wide, with eyelets along sides and end. Two men go together, lace up the sides of the canvas, get end sticks and a ridgepole and have a good little tent to sleep in. Sometimes we can get a three cornered piece to close the end"

It's interesting that they apparently were issued a shelter half significantly different fron the common pattern. Perhaps a reproduction of it would be just the thing for us guys over 6 ft:-)

As to tent set up-here is one of my favorite- From the CivIl War Letters of Wilbur Fisk(2nd Vermont Inf). To set the scene they had only recently recieved their shelter tents and expierenced the joys of using them in cold weather:-)the letter was written in march of 1862

"We put up our miniture tents on an improved plan. By elevating the ridgepole and leaving one side nearly open we formed them in a sort of circle and built up a rousing fire in the midst"

I remain, etc.

Leland Hares

[RJSamp]

Good day gentlemen- just a couple of notes to post

As to 'triangle thingies"-to neither approve or disapprove I first call your attention to the thrid illustraion in the above post which seems to shoe a 'dog tent' with a triangle endpiece of some kind. Second- the following citatation from the book "With Sherman to the Sea" , the C.W. Diaries and Reminiscences of Theodore F. Upson is called to your attentionMr. Upson served in the 100th Ind.

"May 28, 1864-in front of Kennesaw

"We are supplied with what the boys call pup tents. We each have a piece of canvas nearly 7 ft. long, 31/2 ft. wide, with eyelets along sides and end. Two men go together, lace up the sides of the canvas, get end sticks and a ridgepole and have a good little tent to sleep in. Sometimes we can get a three cornered piece to close the end"

It's interesting that they apparently were issued a shelter half significantly different fron the common pattern. Perhaps a reproduction of it would be just the thing for us guys over 6 ft:-)

As to tent set up-here is one of my favorite- From the CivIl War Letters of Wilbur Fisk(2nd Vermont Inf). To set the scene they had only recently recieved their shelter tents and expierenced the joys of using them in cold weather:-)the letter was written in march of 1862

"We put up our miniture tents on an improved plan. By elevating the ridgepole and leaving one side nearly open we formed them in a sort of circle and built up a rousing fire in the midst"

I remain, etc.

Leland Hares

Issued versus working with canvas in the Day of Sail is of course, two different things. Am sure cotton drill was available.....and scraps/larger pieces could be recut, resewn, reworked, as needed. The triange thingies are the machine button sewn, tin buttoned, hemmed edged buy from today
's sutler thing....if you've got a contract/PO/reference that in 1862 the 200th Indiana was issued them in Louisville and used them during their march through Tennessee and Kentucky I'm all ears.

You start with a stolen Hospital fly.......

We've got plenty of quotes on using a 3rd half to form a bell/pyramid/triangular space on the end of two or more halves....

Slightly different twist on the poles and wooden stakes....absolutely made, warehoused, issued, used by the troops. Now after 2 weeks on the road at 15 miles per day....how many of the men still had the poles and wooden stakes.....and had the wagons come up....

[RJSamp]

We based the height upon how much space do three people need laying on their backs plus some room on each side of the tent so neither end soldier is laying against one of the sides.

The math works this way :


the math works that when you are on your side/spooning a file is 22-24" wide. at the minimum....that now become your height.....and you can't touch the side of the tent in the rain. 6" space? our Feet stick up higher than that if you are on your back.

Side by side those tent poles get in the way awfully quick for the middle guy......and sideways your head/shoulders feet start touching the side of the tent quickly, even if you lay it out like a fly.

The only way I've been able to work this for 6'+ reenactors is to use the rubber blanket as a foot/lower leg cover as it sticks out the tent.....and this works just fine. If you've marched 10+ miles in a day your legs tend to cramp if you sleep balled up and don't let your legs 'stretch' out....and they aren't as rested for the next days march. Yea we don't do a lot of campaign marching in reenacting but they did.....something to think about.

[TheQM]

Using the Pythagorean theorem, you can use these two measurements - each divided by two - to determine the height of the ridge pole or height of the rope slung between two trees.

Silas,

I'm afraid I didn't use any theorems to figure out how long to make the sticks I use to hold up the shenter tent. LOL I just sat down on the ground and cut a couple of sticks about 6 or 8 inches longer than I was. The old boys were right and these sticks turned out to be about four feet long!

As I said before, one side of the tent gets pegged down to the ground, while the other side gets lifted up on short sticks, maybe nine inches long. I carry some hemp string to peg this end down. I use the rope that came with my shelter half to hold the center of the tent up and taught. Since everyone sleeps cross ways in the tent, everybody has the same amount of head room, with their feet sticking out under the edge of the tent, covered by a rubber blanket.

In regard to using weapons as tent supports. I'm way, way, too anal about my Shootin' Iron to use it as a tent pole unless there was no other option.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

RJ's right about this. That I understand, there's no (or very, very few) existing records that show triangule end-pieces being issued to troops during the Civil War.

[10TN]

Just to note-my citation never claimed that any form of end piece was [B]issued[B] during the war. The citation only illustrated that at one point a soldier specifically mentioned being able to acquire a "three cornered piece" to close off the end of his tent ,and that an illustration posted in this thread appeared to show a winterized dog tent with the end closed off by a fitted triangular shaped piece of cloth and that thus someone may have been supplying a percieved need during the period. The reference to the non-standard nature of their issued shelter halves aimed at the reported length of " nearly seven feet long" when the official 'issued' version is less than six feet.
It was not an endorsement of the modern end pieces fabricated by purveyors of reenactment tentage nor an exposition on their merits or claim for widespread common use

I remain, etc

Leland Hares

[TheQM]

As to tent set up-here is one of my favorite- From the CivIl War Letters of Wilbur Fisk(2nd Vermont Inf). To set the scene they had only recently recieved their shelter tents and expierenced the joys of using them in cold weather:-)the letter was written in march of 1862

"We put up our miniture tents on an improved plan. By elevating the ridgepole and leaving one side nearly open we formed them in a sort of circle and built up a rousing fire in the midst"

That quote brought back memories. When I was in the Boy Scouts, many moons ago, we used World War Two Army Surplus Pup Tents. When we went winter camping, we would set up three single halves in a "U" shape and build a fire in the center. It made for pretty comfortable sleeping, except for the night someone went a little overboard on the firewood and a spark landed on my shelter half. By the time I woke up, there was nothing left of the tent, except the grommets and buttons!

[RJSamp]

That quote brought back memories. When I was in the Boy Scouts, many moons ago, we used World War Two Army Surplus Pup Tents.

I've still got some orange metal tent stakes from the 1960's.....when we had the 'sleepovers' out in the back yard at age 8 - 13 we slept in a pup tent. Our gym and book bags were medical musettes....right up until the back pack craze started (with your waffle stompers, Earth Shoes, et al).

[TheQM]

I've still got some orange metal tent stakes from the 1960's......

RJ,

I've still got a pair of Dog Tags from the 1960"s. Oh yeah, they've got my name on them!

[RJSamp]

RJ,

I've still got a pair of Dog Tags from the 1960"s. Oh yeah, they've got my name on them!

Ouch, now THAT is old! My dad can still rattle off his rifle serial number from Basic Training, Fall 1943....sharp mind at Age 83. He became a Colonel in the Reserve, that's where we got the stakes and pup tents.....pork chops at the Camp McCoy Officer's Mess....for an 8 year old, that was some eatin'...