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Jas. Cox
11-01-2007, 03:30 PM
This morning I was visiting with my friend Kevin Alvey, CEO of "Gore Galore" http://www.gore-galore.com/. They primarily make gory latex items for haunted houses, individuals, etc. Kevin is also a very good sculptor and has others on his staff with great talents. He's made various things for companies like a Discovery Channel program for which he made a small mummified child. On my website, in the photojournalism section, I have images of him making this item.

It occurred to me, while I was wandering his shop, looking at body parts, that there may be some interest in the Civi War Medical reenactment world for his services. He can do life casts along with his other works, and perhaps someone might be interested in realistic head wounds, amputated body parts, etc. I approached him with this idea and he said if either 1. there was enough interest to make a profitable quantity selling directly to reenactors or 2. He could sell the same items to unrelated groups then he would be interested. In short, if there is a high enough demand to make it worth his investment, then he's interested. He will also do custom work, but feels for most people it would be cost prohibitive.

So I put before this group. Does anyone think there is a need/outlet for such services? If not, no harm, no foul. I think it would be cool, but that's just my opinion.

NoahBriggs
11-01-2007, 04:11 PM
My personal opinion - I am not a big fan of the rubber limb school of surgery. The bias stems from medical reenactors who toss large amounts of fake blood around and try to emphasize the gore.

However, with advanced preparation and proper coaching for the volunteer patient, I feel realistic and anatomically correct wounds/sores/other conditions would reinforce the medical program's major message - war generates some hideous wounds, and they are a bitch to fix, even today. Thus, I would be one of those interested in the possibility of investing in moulagees.

funhistory
11-01-2007, 04:49 PM
I've been investigating the creation of a simple, clean bullet entry wound prosthetic that I could place on the chest of on the dead who come through our tent as a means of explaining the cause of death that I would then have to pack and possibly suture as part of the preparation process.

I've also wondered what it would take to create a prosthetic upon which I could create an incision in order to raise either the carotid or brachial artery. I have too much respect for the dignity of the dead (and also the living) to attempt to raise the femoral artery. I'm not seeking blood and gore because I believe that in our case, we'd drive away many who would otherwise be our audience if we went that direction. I'm convinced that the public would be far more receptive to seeing bloody, living "patients" as opposed to bloody corpses.

mmartin4600
11-04-2007, 04:21 PM
With my group this topic has come up in the past. I don't think we need to have huge bloody wounds, or sawing off body parts, but something accurate that we could incise on and probe would be beneficial to the hobby.

Michael Martin

NoahBriggs
11-05-2007, 07:11 AM
Just occured to me, in the shower this morning, before tea - a skullcap with a depressed fracture, which would allow us to simulate a trephination. Insert something wooden underneath to get that insidious bone rasp and let us use the elevators and lenticular knives in those $700 Archer kits.

Just skimmed Gore Galore. I think I now know where the CBS props department gets their methods for creatin crispy critters on CSI. I like to come across inexpensive ways to reproduce wounds.

for a good compound fracture of the leg take some unrolled cotton balls, a small piece of stick, karo syrup blood and a Ben Nye bruise wheel.

prep the patient's leg with the bruise wheel. Use eyeliner pencil to simulate black vein below the wound.

Lay out the unrolled cotton in a () format. Insert the stick part into the top part of the cotton.

Drench with the fake blood.

Wrap with a bandage and improvised splint.

Pour a small dollop of karo blood into your blistering cup, then insert a mangled mini-ball.

You can now probe the wound under the cotton. Use the ball extractor, cup the blistering cup in your other hand, and slowly extract the mangled bullet from the blistering cup.

It will look like you have just extracted a bullet from under the compound fracture.

Sad as it may seem I use The Color Atlas of Domestic Violence by S. Scott Polsky for reference photos of trauma.

Jas. Cox
11-05-2007, 10:30 AM
I been trying not to comment on this thread, despite the fact I started it, because I'm gauging a need that I don't want to bias.

I was going to make a comment about Noah thinking about such things in the shower, but honestly, that's where I have some of my best ideas.

Thus far, and there hasn't been a great response, it seems like most of you have an interest in somehow creating simulated wounds on which one can "operate" and none in body parts per se. I will try to sort through the types of wounds and see if any other ideas occur before I run them past Kevin. He might actually be able to market gunshot wounds to other markets. I don't know anything about his business, so this is just speculation.

As for fake blood. Kevin was telling me that Wal-Mart actually had some of the more realistic fake blood he has seen. A nice brown tint to it. I actually ventured into that .... place this weekend to see if there was any left of the Halloween specials. I saw none and barely escaped with my life and without my sanity. For the do-it-yourself folks like me, the new thing in fake blood is to replace the standard karo syrup with hair gel. Some with a slight blue tint works well when mixed with red food coloring (it's all trial and error until one gets the desired look). It's a substitute I learn from my connection with Troma Studios. The advantage of the gel over the syrup is that in outdoor settings, it is less likely to attract bees and other insects.

Please continue with your ideas and if you know other medical reenactors ask them as well. There is no guarantee anything will come from this, but if we don't ask, nothing will.

NoahBriggs
11-05-2007, 02:16 PM
It's a cool site, don't get me wrong. The vibe I am getting is that the conversation will devolve into tips for doing wounds on a budget. (Okay, mea maxima culpa.) I know I do not do simulated amputations - it's done to death already, requires more resources than I care to invest and gives the medical community an undeserved rep. I'd prefer to do wounds which allows us to "save" the patient's leg, or other things.

Here's another idea that could be marketable. I was at an emergency medicine convention way back a few years ago, and one of the vendors was selling training "skin" on which to practice sutures. If a minor wound could be created which allows us to suture for real, that would be cool. Otherwise I'm stuck slicing and suturing raw chicken from the grocery store.

I will try to sort through the types of wounds and see if any other ideas occur before I run them past Kevin.

Here; this ought to get you started:

Wounds: GSW/VS, pistol and musket calibers. I'm talking the actual small wounds, not those goofy, wide "traced around a quarter" type of GSWs.
Wounds: shrapnel: metal, or wood (spalling from trees, wooden interiors and the like)
Wounds: cut, various incisions/slashes, from oopsies with a pocket knife to saber slashes.
Wounds: wicked abrasions
Wounds: rubber skullcap to simulate a depressed skull fracture.
Wounds: stab, three-sided bayonet
Wounds: stab, flat-bladed
Wounds: first, second, third degree burns.
Wounds: fractures, particularly compound.

Disease: second stage smallpox. The military's bioweapons moulagee kit has it, why can't we? It's high time the visitors saw what disease was really like.

Compile a disease handbook with reference photos of the real thing and how to simulate it with makeup. Also a section on coaching a patient to behave properly.

Jas. Cox
11-05-2007, 03:52 PM
It's a cool site, don't get me wrong. The vibe I am getting is that the conversation will devolve into tips for doing wounds on a budget. ....

Oh no. I wasn't trying to say you were disparaging the site in anyway. Besides 1. I have no vested interested in this other than to help the reenactment community in general and if it helps my friend's business that's cool, but neither impacts me directly. 2. His website is more to show of what he's capable. Nothing there is to be directed towards our needs. It is "Gore Galore" after all. That's his bread and butter.

I also am getting the impression that those who have responded are more interested in wounds and not body parts per se. Again, that's fine with me. I'm trying to flesh out (pun intended) the needs of the community and your list is very helpful. I will e-mail it to him and see what he thinks. H*ll, he might even just tell us how to do it on our own.

NoahBriggs
11-05-2007, 03:57 PM
Gore-Galore may have cured my Halloween ennui.

Jas. Cox
11-05-2007, 08:20 PM
Very cool
I will have to do some research to figure this out but I think there might be a way to get this done.
We might be able to do a single sculpt with several of these [wounds] on it.
Then we can just sell each wound set separately and I think I might already have an idea for a suturable skin.
I will give it some thought and let you know. Kevin

So that's where this stands.

Jas. Cox
11-28-2007, 06:43 AM
I e-mailed Kevin to see if he had had a chance to do any research for this wound/disease project. He says they are currently in their busy season getting ready for a trade show in March, but he's still very much interested.

For the research for what y'all want, he needs help. I do need someone to help me find the right kinds of wounds and I think it is something we can use in other realms too. So if any of you know where he can locate such visual images, please let me know and I will pass them on to him.

If we can pull this off, I think it will be a very cool and very unique asset to our impressions.

NoahBriggs
11-28-2007, 07:19 AM
www.trauma.org

The downside is that you have to have some sort of membership to view them. Guess That's to keep out the morbid curious.

Googling "gun shot wound" on Images will definitely turn up good examples. A lot of them are GSWs from Iraq.

Jas. Cox
11-28-2007, 07:29 AM
www.trauma.org

The downside is that you have to have some sort of membership to view them. Guess That's to keep out the morbid curious.

Googling "gun shot wound" on Images will definitely turn up good examples. A lot of them are GSWs from Iraq.

But it looks like it's a free registration. How similar do you think a modern GSW and one from the Civil War would be? You wanted second stage small pox as I read. Well, not WANT, but you know what I mean. Perhaps I will do some web searches and develop some links for him. Thank you for the input.

Oh and Kevin said someone contacted him directly about doing a full body. He contacted him back, but has received no response.

NoahBriggs
11-28-2007, 07:56 AM
It's an excuse simply to compile pictures of common wounds and illness images - for reference and as a subtle reminder of what the surgeons faced on a day-to-day basis.

Jas. Cox
11-28-2007, 08:09 AM
It's an excuse simply to compile pictures of common wounds and illness images - for reference and as a subtle reminder of what the surgeons faced on a day-to-day basis.

What's an excuse?

I found plenty of images for reference for small pox. It's making a comeback as a weapon of war. Trying to find specific images for the following is tough, unless they are on that one website.

Wounds: GSW/VS, pistol and musket calibers. I'm talking the actual small wounds, not those goofy, wide "traced around a quarter" type of GSWs.
Wounds: shrapnel: metal, or wood (spalling from trees, wooden interiors and the like)
Wounds: cut, various incisions/slashes, from oopsies with a pocket knife to saber slashes.
Wounds: wicked abrasions
Wounds: rubber skullcap to simulate a depressed skull fracture.
Wounds: stab, three-sided bayonet
Wounds: stab, flat-bladed
Wounds: first, second, third degree burns.
Wounds: fractures, particularly compound.

May have to end up shooting, stabbing, cutting a pig like they would on Myth Busters.

celtfiddler
11-28-2007, 11:01 AM
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/FORHTML/FORIDX.html


Trying to find specific images for the following is tough, unless they are on that one website.

Wounds: GSW/VS, pistol and musket calibers. I'm talking the actual small wounds, not those goofy, wide "traced around a quarter" type of GSWs.
Wounds: shrapnel: metal, or wood (spalling from trees, wooden interiors and the like)
Wounds: cut, various incisions/slashes, from oopsies with a pocket knife to saber slashes.
Wounds: wicked abrasions
Wounds: rubber skullcap to simulate a depressed skull fracture.
Wounds: stab, three-sided bayonet
Wounds: stab, flat-bladed
Wounds: first, second, third degree burns.
Wounds: fractures, particularly compound.

May have to end up shooting, stabbing, cutting a pig like they would on Myth Busters.

Jas. Cox
11-28-2007, 01:21 PM
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/FORHTML/FORIDX.html


Cool, thanks. I have sent the info off to Kevin.

Jas. Cox
03-24-2008, 10:22 AM
This is mostly a bump. However, I did remind Kevin of this project. He responded:

"Just got back from that tradeshow .... We did alot of business. Now we have to fill the orders;) Hopefully in downtimes we can work on this project."

Basically, sure sales first. So this is where this project currently stands.