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Pvt.Fowler
09-26-2007, 11:02 PM
OK, I'm sick of it and would like some answers. I would love to here from the hardcore mainstream out there why you dont care. Why do you refuse to do things correctly? Why stainless steel? Why 22oz. navy blue faded purple coats? Why the modern work boots, modern glasses, plastic bottles in camp, cigarettes, coolers....? Give me your reasons to use these things which never existed. How do you justify it? Why do you reenact if you refuse to leave the modern comforts of home at home? Why the coleman heaters, flashlights, and air beds? Come on now, lets hear it. And Mr. Pritchett, if you delete this, it only strengthens my argument that the hardcore mainstreamer does not have to own up to the historical in-correctness that I have been yelling about.

flattop32355
09-27-2007, 12:25 AM
I'll make you a deal: You provide your real name, as have I, so I know to whom I am speaking, and I'll answer your question to the best of my ability.

Since I've been called a "militant farb in campaigner clothing" on another forum, I believe this qualifies me to respond.

Now, do we have a gentleman's agreement for this discussion to proceed?

YHS,

Bernard P. Biederman
Worthington, OH
30th OVI
Co. B

Memphis
09-27-2007, 12:42 AM
Not to get technical, but that describes farbs and not mainstreamers, unless the mainstream has really tumbled down in the recent past. Is it really that bad out there?

WestTN_reb
09-27-2007, 02:15 AM
If you want a good solid answer, look at the title of this post. People who don't make the "jump" are afraid to associate with people like you. You need to come down off whatever high horse you are riding and get a clue.

As the gentleman before stated, if you're going to be such a pain, you should at least have the common decency to sign your name to your posts. If not, you can blow it out your *** and quit ruining my day.

GrumpyDave
09-27-2007, 06:57 AM
Another beating for that poor dead horse. So very sad. Poor horse.


The answer is very simple: Those forlks don't care. They don't care what you post on a forum. They don't care because they enjoy what they are doing. They don't care because there's plenty of events for them to attend. And, now, get a pen or pencil so you can write this down; They are not going to change.

Now, for my morning coffee. :rolleyes:

Registration for Winter of '64 - 2008 is open.

hanktrent
09-27-2007, 07:34 AM
I think everyone wonders the same thing, at different levels. Why do campaigners/progressives put off reenacting as late as possible Friday evening or Saturday morning, and quit early Sunday, while farbs and mainstreamers generally stay at the same level Friday evening through Sunday afternoon? Do c/p'ers really dislike their hobby that much, that they try to avoid it?

Why would those who call themselves progressive bring a modern camera to a c/p event? It's not cheaper, it's not a health/safety issue, it's not lack of knowledge about correct cameras, it's just a way to make the event all about me me me and what I wanna do, while infringing on the period experience of others. And if you think people can't see you doing it, you're crazy.

Why do c/p'ers say they want all the functional, accurate situations and roles they're offered, that many event organizers go to a great deal of trouble to coordinate, and then farb it up by talking loudly about modern stuff on the march, at the rests, while cooking, in camp, late at night, endlessly? What good is pristine ground if it seems more like the past before the reenactors arrive?

The answers, of course, are because that's what they want to do, and I'd guess that it's the same answer to the questions in the original post. Anything else just starts to sound like an excuse.

And of course, at any level, there's always someone else above, complaining about all the things I/we/you do that seem like blatant farbisms to them.


If you want a good solid answer, look at the title of this post. People who don't make the "jump" are afraid to associate with people like you.

I've heard that a lot, and it always cracks me up. Why would anyone need to associate with a particular group, to try to follow what the history books say? The books and museums are equally available for anyone to study. Is there some rule that mainstreamers aren't allowed to be more accurate in their own units or at their own events?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Pvt.Fowler
09-27-2007, 09:48 AM
All this noise and yet no one has the B***s to answer my question. Just as I thought.

Mike Fowler

sbl
09-27-2007, 10:00 AM
http://www.orgs.ttu.edu/techjugglingclub/images/Stage%20Balls.jpg

KeystoneGuard
09-27-2007, 10:27 AM
:D Time for more noise! I didn't play the drums in school for nothing, ha ha!

I'll be the first to admit, when I first started out in the hobby I was a farb. I have since then fixed that problem. We all start out somewhere. Just like the new McDonalds commercial, you start out flipping burgers, then your in charge of flipping burgers, and then your the CEO of McDonalds. SAME CONCEPT in re-enacting!

dclarry
09-27-2007, 10:57 AM
I think everyone wonders the same thing, at different levels. Why do campaigners/progressives put off reenacting as late as possible Friday evening or Saturday morning, and quit early Sunday, while farbs and mainstreamers generally stay at the same level Friday evening through Sunday afternoon? Do c/p'ers really dislike their hobby that much, that they try to avoid it?

Why would those who call themselves progressive bring a modern camera to a c/p event? It's not cheaper, it's not a health/safety issue, it's not lack of knowledge about correct cameras, it's just a way to make the event all about me me me and what I wanna do, while infringing on the period experience of others. And if you think people can't see you doing it, you're crazy.

Why do c/p'ers say they want all the functional, accurate situations and roles they're offered, that many event organizers go to a great deal of trouble to coordinate, and then farb it up by talking loudly about modern stuff on the march, at the rests, while cooking, in camp, late at night, endlessly? What good is pristine ground if it seems more like the past before the reenactors arrive?

The answers, of course, are because that's what they want to do, and I'd guess that it's the same answer to the questions in the original post. Anything else just starts to sound like an excuse.

And of course, at any level, there's always someone else above, complaining about all the things I/we/you do that seem like blatant farbisms to them.



I've heard that a lot, and it always cracks me up. Why would anyone need to associate with a particular group, to try to follow what the history books say? The books and museums are equally available for anyone to study. Is there some rule that mainstreamers aren't allowed to be more accurate in their own units or at their own events?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net


I am not going to weigh in on either side of this debate, I have not been at it long enough to develop strong enough feelings about it.

However, I enjoy a good debate and a good argument, and I will weigh in here if only to praise Mr. Trent's well-worded, unemotional post that makes solid points. Well said.

Pvt Schnapps
09-27-2007, 11:47 AM
OK, I'm sick of it and would like some answers. I would love to here from the hardcore mainstream out there why you dont care. Why do you refuse to do things correctly? Why stainless steel? Why 22oz. navy blue faded purple coats? Why the modern work boots, modern glasses, plastic bottles in camp, cigarettes, coolers....? Give me your reasons to use these things which never existed. How do you justify it? Why do you reenact if you refuse to leave the modern comforts of home at home? Why the coleman heaters, flashlights, and air beds? Come on now, lets hear it. And Mr. Pritchett, if you delete this, it only strengthens my argument that the hardcore mainstreamer does not have to own up to the historical in-correctness that I have been yelling about.

It sounds like you go to a lot of events where people do these things. Why don't you ask them yourself?

Hank's response makes the key point. People make various degrees of commitment to history and the "authentic" wing is not free from sin.

I would go further and suggest that if your judgment on matters of authenticity is limited to the sort of items you name, you're as bad as anyone. The degree of material culture you seem to aspire to is relatively cheap, and if the purpose of your modest outlay is to assume a pinnacle from which to cast contempt on your fellow hobbyists, then you're no more dedicated to the study of the real history of the era than they are.

We all have our own list of pet peeves about authenticity. Personally I wish more people knew the difference between clothing, camp and garrison equipage, and ordnance, and that they would learn how to write. But I understand that some of them are studying tactics, others are reading up on 19th century horticultural practices, and still others are working their rear ends off in their day jobs so they can afford to take a few days off with their family and enjoy an "immersion" into their own understanding of a reasonable facsimile of 19th century life.

I don't mind any of them; I assume they're all doing what they can. When I want to hang out with folks who are doing more, I know where to find them. Ease up, Mr. Fowler, and stop yelling. I've read the posts you've made since you signed on here in August and they all sound a bit angry. That's a shame. You and I and everyone else have only a little time in which to enjoy this life. Don't cheat yourself by worrying so much about the other fellow's canteen.

KeystoneGuard
09-27-2007, 12:11 PM
Well said Mr. Schaffner! Well said!

Kevin O'Beirne
09-27-2007, 12:12 PM
Another beating for that poor dead horse. So very sad. Poor horse.


Grumpy,

Great reply. There's only two types of reenactors: Those I associate with, and those I do not. This is very similar to the two types of events.

Those who are annoyed at "farbisms" they see at the events they attend should consider attending better events, rather than continuing to be unhappy at the events they do attend. If you cannot find events that are better than the ones you attend, find a new hobby.

Ohioreb1861
09-27-2007, 12:26 PM
Grumpy,

Great reply. There's only two types of reenactors: Those I associate with, and those I do not. This is very similar to the two types of events.

Those who are annoyed at "farbisms" they see at the events they attend should consider attending better events, rather than continuing to be unhappy at the events they do attend. If you cannot find events that are better than the ones you attend, find a new hobby.

I agree,

I really dont get to reenact that much anymore because of my job. Some people don't like to spend $300 for a jacket because of there budget so they get a uniform for $300. I personally don't have that kind of money to spend on my gear, but I do try to get something better every year. In the last year I have replaced my wool uniform to jean wool and have started sleeping on the ground instead of a tent.
The unit i'm in like to have a tent city and some of us don't, its up to the individual and there abilities. Some people have disibilities and need a matress or cot. So! if people are old or disabled means they should find another hobby because they are not authentic?

(off the soapbox)

bill watson
09-27-2007, 01:07 PM
Why do you all respond to an obvious polemic?

Anybody know a Mike Fowler?

Frenchie
09-27-2007, 01:46 PM
All this noise and yet no one has the B***s to answer my question. Just as I thought.

Mike Fowler

You don't have the B***S to walk into a camp where you see all these things you're complaining about and take them to task about it, so drop the challenging-our-manhood BS, okay?

As Bill Watson asks, does anyone whom we know know you? I think probably not. You're one of those perennially unhappy people who spends a lot of time and trouble trying to make others as miserable as you are. As far as I'm concerned there are two choices in dealing with the likes of you: ignore you or poke you with a sharp stick.

Pvt.Fowler
09-27-2007, 08:14 PM
Still waiting for an answer...Come on boys, go into your tent pull out another Bud from the cooler and tell me why you bother to reenact.
What really gets me is we ALL know the types I'm talking about. And I'll even bet that those types have read this thread. My guess is that they are too ashamed of themselves to answer the questions I've laid before them. No real surprise there.

Ohioreb1861
09-27-2007, 08:19 PM
Still waiting for an answer...Come on boys, go into your tent pull out another Bud from the cooler and tell me why you bother to reenact.
What really gets me is we ALL know the types I'm talking about. And I'll even bet that those types have read this thread. My guess is that they are too ashamed of themselves to answer the questions I've laid before them. No real surprise there.

if you haven't got it by now, you probably won't.

nhobbins
09-27-2007, 08:54 PM
My response is....who cares! I do this hobby for one person, and one person only.......that is ME! I choose to be on the more authentic side of the hobby, and this is my decision. If you are doing this to get a "high" from other people....then you are in the hobby for the wrong reason. It is people like you that give the more "hardcore" reenactors a bad name. For me I do all the research, and put the money into the hobby so that I know that I am doing the little justice to the men who served in the war. If you are worried about people around you, then decide to do something else. This hobby is made for people to have fun, and enjoy the time spent. If you don't want to see the things you are upset about...take yourself out of that environment. There are plenty of events out there...where you won't see that. Just my 0.02.

Regards,
Neil Hobbins
Stockton Guards Mess
Cumberland River Legion

tompritchett
09-27-2007, 09:07 PM
It appears to me that you are letting the actions of others outside your own unit dictate how much enjoyment that you are getting out of the hobby. Personally, except when it comes to safety issues, I focus only on my impression and the impression of the members of my unit. If someone else wants to be a militant farb, so be it. I am not coming to worry about it and I am not going to let it diminish my personal enjoyment of the hobby. Allowing someone else's action determine my level of enjoyment at an event merely surrenders control to that person of my emotions - something that I do my best to avoid doing.

[BTW, I have no moderator authority down here, so challenging me to delete your initial post has no meaning here.]

KeystoneGuard
09-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Mr. Fowler (using the term very loosely),

I feel that your tone of voice and disdain for fellow re-enactors is completely out of line and it is time for you to wake up and smell the coffee! Like others have said, if you don't like something then go elsewhere.

I don't know you from Adam or Eve, but I can say that your attitude is poor. Perhaps it is time for you to take the advice of others on the forum and seek other events. And also drop the "Holier than thou" attitude. If we all put our energy into, oh let's say saving battlefields or real civil war realics instead of fighting amongst ourselves over who is more authentic than who, than maybe we would have something to be proud of!


And by the way, I like Frenchie do not appreciate you insulting our manhood! Please do us all a favor and sign your name to a post.
Just my 2 cents.

Thank you and good night, I'll be here all week:cool:

bill watson
09-27-2007, 09:25 PM
Apparently there is no Mike Fowler attending cph events. It's a pretty small world, and nobody has ever heard of this guy.

So it's yet another internet sock puppet, probably someone pretending to be a big, mean campaigner in order to give big mean campaigners a bad name. Or another of those forum reenactors who doesn't go to events. Or a campaigner pretending to be a farb pretending to be a campaigner. Or a mainstreamer pretending to be a campaigner pretending to be a farb pretending to be a campaigner.

Next up: John Smith, who will attest to having attended some really exclusive events with Mike Fowler. (Sock puppet #2) How exclusive? Not even Rob Hodge was allowed to attend, he didn't measure up.

Got a ways to go. I think the record is one guy on one thread using three sock puppets, and arguing with himself to boot.

Don't people just watch television any more?

KeystoneGuard
09-27-2007, 09:34 PM
Bill,

Nicely put. I wonder if any of this will ever sink into his head? What part of PA are you from?

reb64
09-27-2007, 11:12 PM
All this noise and yet no one has the B***s to answer my question. Just as I thought.

Mike Fowler


unless you have a wooden one Im guessing your canteen contains some steel. and as I have always said, there is no one truly correct out there, we are all in costume.

flattop32355
09-27-2007, 11:33 PM
All this noise and yet no one has the B***s to answer my question. Just as I thought.

I do believe I said I would answer it. All I require is some input from you. Is that so difficult?

Do you have the B***s to meet me halfway?

In many ways, you sound like Greg Deese. Might I have guessed correctly?

YHS,

WestTN_reb
09-27-2007, 11:45 PM
My response is....who cares! I do this hobby for one person, and one person only.......that is ME! I choose to be on the more authentic side of the hobby, and this is my decision.

Ahmen! Brother. I wasn't near as eloquent, but that is exactly my feelings on the subject. The way I see it, your either a reenactor or your not. If you are, you attend whatever event you choose, and craft your impression as high quality as you desire.

peedeeguard
09-28-2007, 12:11 AM
In my unit we are striving to better our selves each year. We started out by each person in the unit invest in a Ben Tart NC coat and trousers. Our Federal impression has also been upgraded. Many of us need to upgrade our cartridge boxes,cap boxes, brogans, and learn to sleep in the open a little more, and do away with our hidden cooler, but we are trying and a cold one hits the spot at times. We do not wear any modern stuff on the field and never had, but by our choice. Not just to please anyone else, even "Mr. Fowler", but to honor the men we are trying to represent. Understand that four of those men in the 23rd N.C.T. Co. D were my ancestors, so we are trying. There will be a stumbling block for me over the next two years while I finish my medical classes, college courses cost out of the wazoo, not to mention the books.
Two different guys had to buy air condioners so their families could stay cool this hot dry southern summer we had. So "Mr. Fowler before you get on the computer and rant, but why don't you put yourself in their camps and ask, some may do this out of not knowing better, but their could be legit answers out there. I tend to hang out with all the different people I know and have a good time laughing and shooting the s*** with them at events when we have down time. Life is way too short to get ticked off and whine about things that you can't control.

Dewey McRae
23rd N.C.T. Co. D

Memphis
09-28-2007, 12:39 AM
Mike Fowler, you are my hero!

Just walk right in and speak your mind.

Keep 'em coming!

plankholder
09-28-2007, 06:06 AM
I have been in the hobby for 16 years, I have never done mainstream, and I would go out on a limb and make the statement that I have never been accused or thought of as a F-word(I choose not to use that word as it only aleignates and prevents people from wanting to bridge the mainstream/campaign gap). That being said, this is a hobby and everyone gets out of it what they need. This isnt life, this isnt reality, this isnt a profession-its simply a recreational outlet to escape the modern complexities of the 21st century, and the fulfillment of a primedial need for socialization. You want to know why mainstreamers do it the way that they do it? Get ready, here is the big secret enlightenment that has been carefully guarded since 1962.......get ready, here it comes.....are you ready, can you handle it?.....almost there...... BECAUSE THEY WANT TOO!!!!! Nothing more elaborate than that. You know what else? that is OK, because this is all make belief, reguardless of what level of accuracy you choose to pursue. The biggest "Farbism"(I cant believe that I used that stupid non-word) in this hobby is the attutudes. NO ONE IS AUTHENTIC, the only authentics died a hundred years ago, and truth be known they probably would think we are all pretty silly for doing this anyhow. If you are diluded enough to think that the right name brand sack coat makes you any more of a man, a better person, or even a more knowledgeble about the CW than someone else, then you are about 15 years old or you live a pathetic existence and have never accomplished anything in real life. Until, you knock out all of your teeth, contract dysentary, kill and avoid being killed, and campaign for 4 years...well then you really have nothing to tell me about how "authentic" you are. The only thing authentic about this hobby is the mindset, and the quality of the human beings that participate. Sorry to feed the fire guys, this guy is a tool and really doesnt deserve an answer, but now that he has one maybe he will go back to his rock and play dungeons and dragons with his loser buddies. -ELI GEERY- oh and that is my real name as it appears on my birth certificate, ask around.

bill watson
09-28-2007, 07:16 AM
Anybody been to an event with Roger Johns?

hanktrent
09-28-2007, 08:01 AM
Personally, except when it comes to safety issues, I focus only on my impression and the impression of the members of my unit. If someone else wants to be a militant farb, so be it. I am not coming to worry about it and I am not going to let it diminish my personal enjoyment of the hobby. Allowing someone else's action determine my level of enjoyment at an event merely surrenders control to that person of my emotions - something that I do my best to avoid doing.

Actually, I'd respectfully disagree with your post and Neil Hobbins' post above it.

I'm probably accused more than most, of concentrating on the hobby itself and not using it as a way of forming modern relationships, but even I don't want to travel all the way to an event just to have to ignore most of the people there.

The greatest enjoyment, in my opinion, comes when everyone at an event is cooperating toward the same goal. Otherwise, I could stay home and reenact alone, or go down to the city park, set up a tent, and chastise myself for surrendering control if I enjoy it less when the homeless people and teenagers make fun of me.

So what other reenactors do at the events I attend really is important to me. I've been to some where I know I'll have to pay attention only to one or two others around me and ignore everyone else as much as necessary, and it's okay, but not near as much fun as when I can interact with everyone and we're all pulling toward the same goal.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Pvt Schnapps
09-28-2007, 08:02 AM
Anybody been to an event with Roger Johns?

Not under that name, but I can think of a couple sad sock puppets who sound a lot like him.

tompritchett
09-28-2007, 08:34 AM
So what other reenactors do at the events I attend really is important to me. I've been to some where I know I'll have to pay attention only to one or two others around me and ignore everyone else as much as necessary, and it's okay, but not near as much fun as when I can interact with everyone and we're all pulling toward the same goal.

In that we agree. I guess that I did not express myself well. I also enjoy the interaction with others - the drilling, the maneuvering on the battlefield, etc. I should have been more precise in saying that when it comes to impressions, I only focus on myself and those in my unit. I am not going to let some else's impression in another unit ruin my enjoyment of the weekend nor will I allow any other negative interaction with another reenactor have a more than temporary impact on that weekend.

vamick
09-28-2007, 09:10 AM
Because the voices tell me to!:shock: now they tell me to have another Bud in my nifty correct rusty tin cup

Ohioreb1861
09-28-2007, 09:40 AM
Because the voices tell me to!:shock: now they tell me to have another Bud in my nifty correct rusty tin cup

NICE!!!!! Well said.. :D

Soldiers Girl
09-28-2007, 11:54 AM
I have to admit..I am not impressed with what the guy said..but impressed with the candor he believes himself to have to speak on. He does have this holier then thou attitude, which I for one find rather offensive..but as it's been said he is just a puppet..and he's pulled a few strings, and ruffled some feathers.Which he's done a great job of doing. As well as having some come out of the woodwork with some vey clever replies, which I have enjoyed reading. But truth be known...in the everyday scheme of things, if we were to all be sitting around at a table talking and b.s.ing about the hobby..no one would really pay him any mind...we've all heard that complaint before..we've heard people whine about it. (and I'm new to this!) but honestly, what does it matter? Why worry about about it in a post? So long as a person is happy doing their impression the way they see fit, then good for them. Who's to say who's right and who's wrong, because it doesn't fit into your idea of what's right? Hogwash. Let a person be who they are. The world, and this forum could do with one less person whining about another, save that for your own personal life. :rolleyes:

Memphis
09-28-2007, 12:22 PM
Who's to say who's right and who's wrong, because it doesn't fit into your idea of what's right?

History comes to mind.

MStuart
09-28-2007, 12:27 PM
Anybody been to an event with Roger Johns?

Who?

http://www.flayme.com/troll/

Mark

Soldiers Girl
09-28-2007, 12:34 PM
History comes to mind.

I understand that..but it saddens me when people have to pick apart others because of what they feel is wrong. And however, I do remember reading that some soldiers wore whatever they had, or could find.

sbl
09-28-2007, 12:43 PM
I understand that..but it saddens me when people have to pick apart others because of what they feel is wrong. And however, I do remember reading that some soldiers wore whatever they had, or could find.


Nikki, this is true but whatever they had or could find was actually from the time and place that they lived in.

tompritchett
09-28-2007, 02:24 PM
Pvt.Fowler is a mute point now. The Provost permanently banned him after the initial post in the thread that I deleted in the Military Discussion conference. Those of you that read the post will understand why. Those of you that did not - trust me it was deserved.

Kevin O'Beirne
09-28-2007, 03:57 PM
I agree,

I really dont get to reenact that much anymore because of my job. Some people don't like to spend $300 for a jacket because of there budget so they get a uniform for $300. I personally don't have that kind of money to spend on my gear, but I do try to get something better every year. In the last year I have replaced my wool uniform to jean wool and have started sleeping on the ground instead of a tent.
The unit i'm in like to have a tent city and some of us don't, its up to the individual and there abilities. Some people have disibilities and need a matress or cot. So! if people are old or disabled means they should find another hobby because they are not authentic?

(off the soapbox)

I reckon I don't truly need to reply to the above, being how my post on this thread had nothing to do with who could or could not participate in reenacting, and did not insinuate in any way that expensive gear = "better reenacting".

I've long since gotten past railing that reenactors should attempt to do better, and am usually just focused on the events I attend, without worrying about those that I do not.

Ohioreb1861
09-28-2007, 06:41 PM
Kevin,

I was just agreeing with you on your point, then I went on my own tangent.

indguard
09-29-2007, 10:30 PM
You know, the acrimonious argument between the "hardcores" and the "farbs" will probably never be concluded. But one thing needs to be remembered by ALL of us no matter a farb, a mainstreamer, or a hardcore.

PERSPECTIVE

My son is currently in the REAL U.S. army and so are many of our fellow reenactors and/or their sons and daughters. They are in places where they are REALLY being shot at. They are in places where people are REALLY trying to blow them up and kill them. They are in places where they CANNOT get nice showers, sometimes for days at a time. Many are in places where the comforts of life are far and few between.

On the other hand, WE go out in a field for a few hours. Later we drive off to a restaurant or a bar and have fun with our pards. Or we get a cool one out of our cooler in the car. Then, after a few hours, we go home to the comforts of our lives.

History is important, of course. But, to make our argument of farb vs. mainstreamer vs. hardcore the curx of your life... well, that makes you just a sad, sad person. You have no life, no perspective, no sense of what is important in life.

In fact, Mr. Fowler (by the way, nice name choice. You ARE a fowl person apparently), your little rant can be turned on its head and reversed right on you. A so-called hardcore can be made fun of just as easily as the farb. (By the way Mr. Fowler. I'd like to introduce a concept to you: GRAMMAR. Yours is atrocious)

Let's see what we can do to a hardcore with your own style:


OK, I'm sick of it and would like some answers. I would love to here from the hardcores out there why you are so arrogant. Why do you think you are better than other people? Why peeing on buttons? Why spend more for a jacket you'll wear one time and never again than you would on your Mother's birthday gift? Why talk of your cool hardcore sutlers, threads, warp and weave, dyes... ? Give me your reasons to talk about clothing all day at an event when a REAL civil war soldier would never care about his stuff. How do you justify it? Why do you reenact if you refuse to leave the sutler talk off the field and refuse to act like a soldier? Come on now, lets hear it. And Mr. Pritchett, if you delete this, it only strengthens my argument that the hardcores do not have to own up to the historical in-correctness that I have been yelling about.

So, the next time you so-called hardcores puff yourselves up that you are the "real" thing, remember that we have REAL soldiers in harm's way. You militant farbs, when you are sitting in your luxurious camps and claiming you "know" something of war, remember we have soldiers wishing THEY had even the most basic comforts to enjoy... and some of them will never come home to enjoy them again.

Folks we have a HOBBY here. In the long run EVERYTHING we do is nearly meaningless. We are out there to have FUN not to cure cancer or further world peace! A militant farb is no better in REAL life than a militant, arrogant hardcore all things being equal.

We are NOT soldiers. We are NOT from the civil war. We do NOT truly understand what they went through. We are NOT in harm's way. We are NOT really officers. We are just dudes play acting JUST like we did when we were 10 years old. We now just have more expensive toys.

So, all of us should just chill out, grow up and gain just a little...

PERSPECTIVE.

Thank you for your time

Warner Todd Huston
About sick of this hobby and 1 year from quitting
(come on Oct. 2008!)

hanktrent
09-30-2007, 08:25 AM
OK, I'm sick of it and would like some answers. I would love to here from the hardcores out there why you are so arrogant. Why do you think you are better than other people? Why peeing on buttons? Why spend more for a jacket you'll wear one time and never again than you would on your Mother's birthday gift? Why talk of your cool hardcore sutlers, threads, warp and weave, dyes... ? Give me your reasons to talk about clothing all day at an event when a REAL civil war soldier would never care about his stuff. How do you justify it? Why do you reenact if you refuse to leave the sutler talk off the field and refuse to act like a soldier? Come on now, lets hear it. And Mr. Pritchett, if you delete this, it only strengthens my argument that the hardcores do not have to own up to the historical in-correctness that I have been yelling about.


Hee hee. Don't tempt me. I'll answer! I will!

Hank Trent
Been in the hobby 18 years and every event still feels like Christmas!
hanktrent@voyager.net

Linda Trent
09-30-2007, 09:51 AM
We are out there to have FUN not to cure cancer or further world peace!We'll never achieve the level of authentic, but it is something that many of us try to pursue. Why do we pursue it? Because it's fun! :twisted:

BTW, you're preaching to the choir to all of us here when you say that we have "real" soldiers fighting in Iraq, Afghanastan, and other parts of the world. God Bless them, every one!

Linda

hanktrent
09-30-2007, 10:53 AM
BTW, you're preaching to the choir to all of us here when you say that we have "real" soldiers fighting in Iraq, Afghanastan, and other parts of the world.

It occurs to me that WTH's same line of reasoning could be used to trivialize almost any hobby or, for that matter, most professions.

To an author: You're just sitting there making up stories, while there are people really doing what you're only imagining.

To a fisherman or hunter or gardener: You're deliberately getting food the hard way, even though you could go down to the store and buy it. Don't forget there are starving Africans who really have to get their own food themselves and don't consider it play.

To an architect: You're just sitting there making drawings, but don't forget that there are construction workers out there really building these buildings, risking their life and health.

I think most people realize that yes, there are other people out there doing more important things than them. And yet the quickest way to boredom or burnout is to keep telling oneself that what you're doing is nothing, unimportant, pointless, useless, so much less than what others do, so... who cares? why bother?

So you move on to what seems like another more important activity, until you start to realize the same things about it, and so on. At some point you just have to stop and say, this may not be important to anyone else, but it's important to me.

And then we can talk about priorities. Jobs come before hobbies, because they feed one's family. But families come before jobs, because you can get another job but your loved ones are forever. But religion comes before family, because it affects your eternal salvation. But not everyone believes that's true, and people get divorced, so maybe jobs are more important because even divorced atheists have to eat. But you can get fired from a job or laid off. Yet if you do what you really love without expectation of payment, it'll stay with you always and always give you joy. So, how far down on the list of priorities are hobbies, anyway?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

indguard
09-30-2007, 11:26 AM
It occurs to me that WTH's same line of reasoning could be used to trivialize almost any hobby or, for that matter, most professions.

Um, no. Not really. Fishermen feed people. Architects build things to help people make life better. Writers offer culture, etc.

Hobbies?

Just fun man. Not very far up the ladder of importance.

And, since hardcores claim they hate talking to the public because their harcore hobby is THEIR hobby and they aren't there for the public, they cannot even claim to be furthering the cause of history.

And since few farbs know much about history in the first place.... they are outta luck, too.

Sorry, but no one who is serious about what is important and what isn't would never equate a mere hobby to something as important as feeding or housing people!

WTH

plankholder
09-30-2007, 11:37 AM
To all,
I figured that it was time that this thread take a new direction. Although I have really enjoyed it, especially because it has had the opposite effect that the original poster intended, its kind of a dead issue. Anyway, now that the oppurtunity has presented itself, I wanted to thank all of the members of the forum who have shown thier support to all of us troops, sailors, airmen and marines. My deployment is coming to an end, and in a little over two weeks, I will be boarding a flight back to the states, after nearly 18 months away from home. Everyone that I have come into contact with from this forum(as well as the other two forums) have been great, your words of appreciation and encouragement have meant so much to me. I hope to meet you all on the field and be able to thank you personally. This really is a great hobby, because its full of great people. Thanks and God bless you all.- ELI GEERY

Linda Trent
09-30-2007, 01:10 PM
And, since hardcores claim they hate talking to the public because their harcore hobby is THEIR hobby and they aren't there for the public, they cannot even claim to be furthering the cause of history.Ah, so you're not including other reenactors as part of the public? Each event I attend is a learning experience not only for myself, but for those around me. Anytime anyone learns something whether it's large scale, or small, it's never "meaningless."

There are some events that are immersion-style that are not for the public, but they're not the majority of events by any means, they're just the ones that most people talk about because they're the most fun. But I forgot, according to you, we're not supposed to have fun unless it meets your criteria.:roll:

Again, it all goes back to a person's definition of "fun." For me, it's constantly pushing the envelope and trying to push authenticity to new heights to keep events from becoming dull, boring and hum-drum, and burn-out. Others don't find what I do enjoyable, but why do people try to prevent progression? Easy enough to answer. When others raise the bar higher it means those who were at the top now have to either acccept that they're not at the top or they have to work harder to get back up there, and neither is what they want. So, trying to stop the bar from going up is the easiest solution.

'nuff said,

Linda.

hanktrent
09-30-2007, 01:57 PM
Hobbies?

Just fun man. Not very far up the ladder of importance.


Sorry, but no one who is serious about what is important and what isn't would never equate a mere hobby to something as important as feeding or housing people!

You might be interested in Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs. Or, on a more practical level, Viktor Fankl's observations about human behavior in concentration camps.

Maslow stated that as soon as basic needs are met, humans have other natural needs, such as friendship, self esteem, fulfillment of curiosity, creativity, etc., all of which can be met by activities which one could loosely define as hobbies, and by reenacting in particular if one so desired.

When one has basic physical needs taken care of, and one is actively striving to meet the other needs, one is in the process of becoming a "self-actualizing" person, an ideal he described as follows (thanks to Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs for the cut-and-paste)

1. Awareness

efficient perception of reality
freshness of appreciation
peak experiences
ethical awareness2. Honesty

philosophical sense of humor
social interest
deep interpersonal relationships
democratic character structure3. Freedom

need for solitude
autonomous, independent
creativity, originality
spontaneous4. Trust people

problem centered
acceptance of self, others, nature
resistance to enculturation - identity with humanityViktor Frankl, a psychologist who became imprisoned in concentration camps during World War II, observed that not only did humans strive for self-actualizing-type needs once they had food and shelter, those other needs were of a high priority, even when food and shelter hadn't been met.

In other words, humans are complex critters, and there's more to life than food and shelter.



And, since hardcores claim they hate talking to the public because their harcore hobby is THEIR hobby and they aren't there for the public, they cannot even claim to be furthering the cause of history.


Actually, during reenactments, I like talking to anyone who appreciates living history. A lot of times, that would be the spectators, rather than the reenactors.

But speaking of non-public events... I attended my first reenactment as a public spectator, like most people, and it was a mainstream one, the kind most spectators stumble across.

I thought how wonderful it was to be around people so interested in history, and I wanted to become a reenactor too, because I thought, if they're this interested in recreating history even with all the distractions of the public around, it must be even more wonderful to be allowed to stay here after hours, when everyone can be as accurate as they want!

Imagine my surprise. :rolleyes:

Thankfully, I finally found reenactments where the most interested spectators really can stay, if they're willing to help with the historic recreation too, and finally experience what I was hoping to experience

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

GaWildcat
09-30-2007, 04:41 PM
Eli,

Welcome Home brother. Thanks for your service, glad your coming home OK.

bill watson
09-30-2007, 05:21 PM
"since hardcores claim they hate talking to the public because their harcore hobby is THEIR hobby and they aren't there for the public"

This may be a misunderstanding, Todd, since I know of no hardcores who eschew the public all the time. I just don't. And I know scores if not hundreds of them. They tend to be glad they can show off their stuff to an appreciative audience. The living histories at national parks are a big draw for what you call "hardcores" due to the fact that the national parks are just about the only public-recognized venue that actually has standards living historians must meet in order to present to the public. Some events do, as well, but ask the average spectator what they are and you'll get a "huh?" But at a national park, spectators have an expectation that someone somewhere has troubled to get the presentations historically researched.*

As noted, not everyone wants every event to be open to the public. But the biggest non-public event of the season was just held near Harper's Ferry, and it was a mainstream event. The progressive event the week before was open to spectators. I believe most events at the hardcore end, as well, all have had public components.

*Some may quibble not all parks are picky. Yeah, ok. But enough are that being allowed to present there is a feather in most people's hats. Oops, animal part....

huntdaw
09-30-2007, 07:05 PM
I personally don't see much difference between the type of post Mr. Fowler initially wrote and what Mr. Huston has responded with. Both are hateful diatribes that try to stereotype and belittle a particular aspect of the hobby. Neither one accomplishes anything except allowing the poster to vent their spleen for whatever reason they see fit.

I guess there is one visible difference - Mr. Fowler has only done this once that we know of. Mr. Huston has posted such things a myriad of times.

I do campaign style events - I like them better. I will do mainstream events but I do not, as a rule, find them to be as personally satisfying. Blasting me for my mindset and trying to portray me as something I'm really not will have no effect on the type of events I go to. So, why don't we all just give it a rest. This poor horse has nothing left to beat.

tompritchett
09-30-2007, 08:59 PM
Quote:
OK, I'm sick of it and would like some answers. I would love to here from the hardcores out there why you are so arrogant. Why do you think you are better than other people? Why peeing on buttons? Why spend more for a jacket you'll wear one time and never again than you would on your Mother's birthday gift? Why talk of your cool hardcore sutlers, threads, warp and weave, dyes... ? Give me your reasons to talk about clothing all day at an event when a REAL civil war soldier would never care about his stuff. How do you justify it? Why do you reenact if you refuse to leave the sutler talk off the field and refuse to act like a soldier? Come on now, lets hear it. And Mr. Pritchett, if you delete this, it only strengthens my argument that the hardcores do not have to own up to the historical in-correctness that I have been yelling about.

Just out of curiosity, who are you quoting? Or are you using the quote mechanism to launch your own counter-attack against a supposed spokesman for the "hardcore" side of the hobby who has since been banned. If you will notice most of the "hardcore" members of this forum reacted very negatively towards Pvt.Fowler's rant so it is apparent that on this forum most "campaigners" do not share his extremely negative sentiments against the mainstream side of the hobby. I might also add that based upon a previous poll on this forum, the membership here seems to be approximately 50/50 mainstreamer/"campaigner" so that if he did have such support here, it would have already come out by now.

David Meister
09-30-2007, 09:09 PM
I am Suprised that this thread has not been closed.

Micah Trent
09-30-2007, 09:25 PM
Others don't find what I do enjoyable, but why do people try to prevent progression? Easy enough to answer. When others raise the bar higher it means those who were at the top now have to either acccept that they're not at the top or they have to work harder to get back up there, and neither is what they want. So, trying to stop the bar from going up is the easiest solution.

Well put Linda!

indguard
09-30-2007, 09:34 PM
Linda,


Ah, so you're not including other reenactors as part of the public?

No. I am not.

But, I see your point.

Oh, and plankholer.... thanks for your service.

indguard
09-30-2007, 09:39 PM
Tom,


Just out of curiosity, who are you quoting?

I was not "quoting" anyone directly. I was using the first poster's words to show that his style could be used against his own side of the hobby. I am not attacking hardcores at the expense of them or to support mainstreamers or farbs. I am saying that the entire hobby can be made fun of from farb to hardcore and everything in between. I am saying that the original poster investing so much hatred and emotion in a silly hobby shows him to be a sad person.

My purpose was NOT to start attacking hardcores, instead. My purpose was to relate that we ALL need a little perspective and that our hobby is not that important in the scheme of things.

tompritchett
09-30-2007, 09:59 PM
My purpose was NOT to start attacking hardcores, instead. My purpose was to relate that we ALL need a little perspective and that our hobby is not that important in the scheme of things.

Thank you for clarifying that and clarifying your intentions as I am afraid that some readers, myself included, were not sure exactly where you were going with the material in that quote.

indguard
09-30-2007, 11:26 PM
Glad I could clarify. Like I said, I was making a general point about all of us, not one about any particular segment of the hobby over another.

Still, we all know that many people here are all ready to jump to conclusions based on their hatred for an individual as is obvious by their many attempts in the past to attack that person both on and off the board as well as behind the scenes of the board.

Frenchie
09-30-2007, 11:31 PM
Still, we all know that many people here are all ready to jump to conclusions based on their hatred for an individual as is obvious by their many attempts in the past to attack that person both on and off the board as well as behind the scenes of the board.

Who are you talking about?

tompritchett
09-30-2007, 11:35 PM
Who are you talking about?

I really do not think that we need to go down that alley.

Frenchie
10-01-2007, 12:27 AM
Well, doggone it, if whomever he's talking about has been "attacked many times both on and off the board", etc., how come I don't know who it is? I'm here every day, pretty much. Nobody tells me nuthin', grumble, mumble...

indguard
10-01-2007, 12:41 AM
You must be outta the loop, Frenchie! LOL

Not everyone here can be part of the inside cabal! If EVERYONE was in it, it wouldn't be a cabal!

;)

Doug Cooper
10-01-2007, 12:46 AM
Tom Pritchett has it right - what we are witnessing ad nauseum here is the ranting of the .005% of the hobby that make up the two codependent subgroups...

Were Mr Indguard and Mr Fowler each to be handed a mirror, they might be surprised to see that nobody is standing behind them on their "side" of the hobby. Must be lonely...and sad.

indguard
10-01-2007, 02:14 AM
... apparently you missed the context of my post. Talk about sad. But expected.

flattop32355
10-01-2007, 09:29 AM
Anybody been to an event with Roger Johns?

What's a "Roger Johns"?
Come to think of it, Bill, I've never seen one at a reenactment. Haven't even heard of one mentioned.

Can't be anything important, then, can it. ;)

vamick
10-01-2007, 10:56 AM
I am Suprised that this thread has not been closed.

The voices tell me its high time bhoyo:shock: let us lift our minds to more pleasent things! Im wastin time here at work and its depressin me:rolleyes:
course it IS payday!!:D

7thNJcoA
10-01-2007, 01:58 PM
I am a mainstream member but camp authentic and enjoy it... IT IS YOUR HOBBY TO DO AS YOU PLEASE!!! KEY WORD HERE




HOBBY

sbl
10-01-2007, 02:04 PM
Sure...why can't canoes take part in the America's Cup?

Linda Trent
10-01-2007, 02:09 PM
Sure...why can't canoes take part in the America's Cup?I think he means; look at the event rules and guidelines and chose the events that fit your style of reenacting. :D The America's Cup has rules against canoes, or so I would assume. :rolleyes:

Linda.

tompritchett
10-01-2007, 02:36 PM
Sure...why can't canoes take part in the America's Cup?

Because they would get their fanny perpendiculars kicked, unless of course you are referring to catamarans similar to the one that was used to take the Cup about a decade ago. :) .

dclarry
10-01-2007, 05:06 PM
The America's Cup has rules against canoes, or so I would assume.



Don't you oppress me!

CLF
Canoeist Liberation Front

Poor Private
10-01-2007, 05:14 PM
I would rather use a Kayak lighter to carry

sbl
10-01-2007, 05:24 PM
Dear Linda,

I'm sure that was what he meant but I just didn't like his big ol' letters. :)

sbl
10-01-2007, 05:26 PM
A Kayak? What color panties do they wear in kayaks? :twisted:

Ohioreb1861
10-01-2007, 06:18 PM
About sick of this hobby and 1 year from quitting
(come on Oct. 2008!)[/QUOTE]

Oh no, your colonel for life! :D

RJSamp
10-01-2007, 06:23 PM
About sick of this hobby and 1 year from quitting
(come on Oct. 2008!)

Oh no, your colonel for life! :D[/QUOTE]

Just saw WTH at Lockport IL event (first weekend after Labor Day).........Federal, Private, with a rifle in his hands.

and clean shaven!

jkobler
10-01-2007, 08:01 PM
I took a 12 year hiatus and look, some things never change. LOL. I love all you guys... farb or mudseal. God bless you sorry bastages. Now let's get back to the historical rhetoric.



--Jonathan Kobler, conveniently inbetween Farb and Hardcore.

Ohioreb1861
10-01-2007, 09:10 PM
[QUOTE=
Just saw WTH at Lockport IL event (first weekend after Labor Day).........Federal, Private, with a rifle in his hands.

and clean shaven![/QUOTE]

Federal Private??? clean shaven?? we talking about the same person?:D

8th TexCav
10-01-2007, 11:46 PM
I am confused as to which obnoxiously stated extremist view to support. I suppose that I will just return to research, civilized discourse, continued self improvement and enjoyment of the hobby.

While I do not believe that these types of threads advance one’s position or offer a reasoned approach to convert from one faction of the hobby/hobbies to the other, they are entertaining.

One caveat; I have seen a few reasoned responses.

indguard
10-02-2007, 02:22 AM
Federal Private??? clean shaven?? we talking about the same person?

Oh, yes. SAME person!!!
Call it a midlife crisis, call it a mental breakdown, call it what you will...

But it's me, it's me, it's WT!

LOL

Ohioreb1861
10-02-2007, 09:27 AM
Oh, yes. SAME person!!!
Call it a midlife crisis, call it a mental breakdown, call it what you will...

But it's me, it's me, it's WT!

LOL

i've seen everything now..... :shock:

captdougofky
10-02-2007, 12:53 PM
Tom Pritchett has it right - what we are witnessing ad nauseum here is the ranting of the .005% of the hobby that make up the two codependent subgroups...

Were Mr Indguard and Mr Fowler each to be handed a mirror, they might be surprised to see that nobody is standing behind them on their "side" of the hobby. Must be lonely...and sad.

I'll stand behind WTH on any day time or place, his interest in the hobby, like I said hobby is real. I'm sure he makes a fine private because I know he makes a fine General. He just does not embrace the CPH view on all matters. That may be where he runs into problems here. This is the place to run down mainstreamers from the A/C forum, open dialog not allowed there.

Always

Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

RJSamp
10-02-2007, 01:48 PM
I'll stand behind WTH on any day time or place, his interest in the hobby, like I said hobby is real. I'm sure he makes a fine private because I know he makes a fine General. He just does not embrace the CPH view on all matters. That may be where he runs into problems here. This is the place to run down mainstreamers from the A/C forum, open dialog not allowed there.

Always

Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

Heck Doug, I regularly run down the CPHers (and mainstreamers and farbs) on this forum..... when the Emperor has no clothes you simply document the facts and call him naked.

billwatson2
10-02-2007, 03:53 PM
Actually WTH usually runs into problems when, apparently acting on bad information he's received, characterizes cph values and positions inaccurately. He has a standing invitation from me to fall in at any history-heavier event where I've got a leadership role to correct his understanding of what goes on at these events, including the underwear inspections, rancid food commissary and stitch validation tent. :D

Ohioreb1861
10-02-2007, 07:04 PM
Heck Doug, I regularly run down the CPHers (and mainstreamers and farbs) on this forum..... when the Emperor has no clothes you simply document the facts and call him naked.


You shouldn't be running down anyone, people need to understand that this is a HOBBY!!! key word: HOBBY

Main Entry: hobby2
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hobbies
Etymology: short for hobbyhorse
Date: 1816
: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation.
(http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary)

I also stand behind WTH as well. so, the next time someone wants to call someone a FARB look into a mirror....

Parault
10-02-2007, 07:51 PM
Thats right......Hobby 1st....Job 2nd.....No! wait,isn't that susposed to be the other way??? I can't remember

Ohioreb1861
10-02-2007, 07:55 PM
Thats right......Hobby 1st....Job 2nd.....No! wait,isn't that susposed to be the other way??? I can't remember

I think it was hobby 1st......I think, i'll ask my boss tomorrow.

indguard
10-02-2007, 08:46 PM
...stitch validation tent.

Now, I'm sure you mean "stitch validation tent" only at early war events, right? Later in the war, they didn't have tents for that purpose of course... especially on the Confederate side.

Still, your post imagines I have never had contact with a CPH event or any of its adherents.

You would be wrong.

indguard
10-02-2007, 08:55 PM
Doug Thomas,

As always, I appreciate your feelings. I have always only done the best I can... even as I take fire from the front and rear at times!

The shame is, that boards like this often do far more harm than good. How Perryville '06 was about destroyed by so many on this board and those who run it is a perfect example of that trouble. They set out to ruin the event and smear many of its participants and they nearly succeeded with the mods' help.

We won, though, but it was a hard fought battle before the first musket was fired. We had a great event, and all concerned (and I do mean ALL) did a fantastic job when it was all said and done.

But THIS place didn't help even a tiny bit. And it rarely does.

WTH

Pvt Schnapps
10-02-2007, 08:59 PM
Doug Thomas,

As always, I appreciate your feelings. I have always only done the best I can... even as I take fire from the front and rear at times!

The shame is, that boards like this often do far more harm than good. How Perryville '06 was about destroyed by so many on this board and those who run it is a perfect example of that trouble. They set out to ruin the event and smear many of its participants and they nearly succeeded with the mods' help.

We won, though, but it was a hard fought battle before the first musket was fired. We had a great event, and all concerned (and I do mean ALL) did a fantastic job when it was all said and done.

But THIS place didn't help even a tiny bit. And it rarely does.

WTH

Go ahead -- fall in with Bill. I'll do the paperwork and you'll have the time of your life.

huntdaw
10-02-2007, 09:09 PM
I don't quite understand you Mr. Huston. I do not know you so all I have to go by are your posts on this forum. But the impression I have gotten over the past based on your posts is that you tend to stir things up and then try to portray yourself as the victim.

If I remember correctly, a lot of the flap about Perryville was started by you. I also think that a lot of the flap on this particular thread was started by you with an attack on all those that didn't agree with your particular style of reenacting.

I haven't seen any mainstream bashing on the AC for a while. But I have seen CPH bashing here. Seems like there's a contradiction there. Yet, all we ever hear is how awful the folks on the AC are yet folks here are so nice and loving that they welcome everyone with open arms. Yet, the posts that show up seem to point to the exact opposite.

So, why do you continue to frequent this particular forum when you wish to belittle it so much, basically saying it's pretty worthless as far as contributing to the hobby?

I'm not trying to make a personal attack here - just stating what my impressions are based on the only thing I have to go on and trying to figure out where the truth lies amid all the contradictions.

flattop32355
10-02-2007, 09:55 PM
I'm not trying to make a personal attack here - just stating what my impressions are based on the only thing I have to go on and trying to figure out where the truth lies amid all the contradictions.

Ya see now, right there: That there's your problem.

You are trying to maintain cordial and respectful discussion rather than factional one-upmanship. You are bent on taking each person's posts as being an accurate reflection of their true intentions, thoughts and feelings. You are holding to the naive belief that we can all gather here and hold meaningful and gentlemanly (or lady-like) conversation and debate without choosing to take offense. You seem intent upon believing that, despite our differing philosophies of what makes us happy in this hobby, that more than one viewpoint is possible.

Everyone knows that everyone else on these fora has a hidden agenda bent on destroying the hobby, and that only "you" (the universal "you") can stop the degeneration of the hobby.

Well, let me tell you one thing right here, Mister: Good for you! ;)

Ohioreb1861
10-02-2007, 10:11 PM
[QUOTE=huntdaw]
I haven't seen any mainstream bashing on the AC for a while. But I have seen CPH bashing here. Seems like there's a contradiction there. Yet, all we ever hear is how awful the folks on the AC are yet folks here are so nice and loving that they welcome everyone with open arms. Yet, the posts that show up seem to point to the exact opposite. /QUOTE]

Correstion, is open arms is what I got, I hate to see what you do to other new members. thats why I left.

Micah Trent
10-02-2007, 10:44 PM
The shame is, that boards like this often do far more harm than good. How Perryville '06 was about destroyed by so many on this board and those who run it is a perfect example of that trouble. They set out to ruin the event and smear many of its participants and they nearly succeeded with the mods' help. WTH

I see that to this very day you are still convinced that the "mods'" helped ruin the Perryville event....:confused: We've seen you list that the mods are against you before. I was at Perryville and know some of those who helped planned it. No "mods'" man! But you know that already. So what's your beef with them?

captdougofky
10-03-2007, 01:28 AM
Doug Thomas,

As always, I appreciate your feelings. I have always only done the best I can... even as I take fire from the front and rear at times!

The shame is, that boards like this often do far more harm than good. How Perryville '06 was about destroyed by so many on this board and those who run it is a perfect example of that trouble. They set out to ruin the event and smear many of its participants and they nearly succeeded with the mods' help.

We won, though, but it was a hard fought battle before the first musket was fired. We had a great event, and all concerned (and I do mean ALL) did a fantastic job when it was all said and done.

But THIS place didn't help even a tiny bit. And it rarely does.

WTH


WTH

I do not know you that well, but I know your heart. Those that want to beat on you don't know me. Mill Springs this year was a joke, I know that as well as you. I'm not a hard man to find at any event in Kentucky. Keep up the good work.

Always Doug
Lyons

indguard
10-03-2007, 05:00 AM
Mr. Comer,

I will take your post one sentence at a time in reply and then finish with some further commentary.


I don't quite understand you Mr. Huston. I do not know you so all I have to go by are your posts on this forum. But the impression I have gotten over the past based on your posts is that you tend to stir things up and then try to portray yourself as the victim.

Your "impression" is irrelevant. You come from one ideological position, so ANY questioning of "your side" is seen by you as an out and out attack. No questioning of your folk is permitted. I, on the other hand, represent no "side." I call the situation as I see it with no "side" as my launching grounds.


If I remember correctly, a lot of the flap about Perryville was started by you. I also think that a lot of the flap on this particular thread was started by you with an attack on all those that didn't agree with your particular style of reenacting.

First of all, I did not appear on this thread until 3 DAYS after it started, so for you to say "a lot of the flap on this particular thread was started by" me is absurd on its face.

And your Perryville claim is not true at all. Again, you come from the so-called hardcore side and my part in that situation was portrayed by the mods and the hardcore community as a personal attack on them when it was nothing of the kind.

You are completely uninformed on the actual situation. Let me try to explain it better.

As to my actions prior to Perryville, none were without sanction. In FACT, I made NO move, posted NO message, and advocated for NO policy or direction that I was not ASKED in advance to advocate for by the Perryville staff. Every action I took was feted through the state parks personnel before I made them. That some of those actions were not in line with the agenda of folks outside the park was neither may fault nor my concern. I was asked to do a job, my ground rules were laid out in advance, I accepted that position and followed through with that work on that basis. That I did not quake in terror at the so-called "authority" of the hardcore community and did not buckle under their badgering, cajoling, hatred, and troublemaking is all YOU are attacking me for.


I haven't seen any mainstream bashing on the AC for a while. But I have seen CPH bashing here. Seems like there's a contradiction there.

Your admission here that they have done it in the past sort of invalidates your seeming absolution for them for not having done it lately! So, a mass murderer should be excused if he hasn't killed anyone lately? Still, if the AC Forum has turned over a new leaf and decided that bashing is not their "thing," then I applaud them for that and hope they keep it up. But don't act as if they don't do it there when we both know they have and don't act as if members of the AC Forum don't sit about half their day making fun of the farbs at every mainstream event they attend. Farb catcalling is nearly a hobby within a hobby for them! I see it every single year. It is disingenuous to claim it doesn't happen.


Yet, all we ever hear is how awful the folks on the AC are yet folks here are so nice and loving that they welcome everyone with open arms. Yet, the posts that show up seem to point to the exact opposite.

Your perception is not necessarily reality. And, what does this have to do with me, anyway? I do not come to this board constantly attacking the AC Forum. ****, I don't even go there! I doubt you'll be able to even find a post where I've even mentioned the AC Forum. The times I went there, though, I found it chock full of great info. But, I have no axe to grind with that forum, per se.

Your going from questions to me directly then veering off to what others have done is what is called a straw man tactic in debate. Since I have not attacked the AC Forum here, tarring me with that brush is dishonest.

Now, you may not find any quotes of me attacking the AC Forum, but you WILL see some from me saying that we owe gratitude to the hardcore movement. Without their hard work we would not have as much knowledge of the material culture of the era we love so much as we now do. They have been indispensable for our greater understanding of the era.


So, why do you continue to frequent this particular forum when you wish to belittle it so much, basically saying it's pretty worthless as far as contributing to the hobby?

Why to see what you are saying about me of course! Wait, am I violating a law by coming to a place that I feel is not worth a whole lot? Ever heard of entertainment?


I'm not trying to make a personal attack here - just stating what my impressions are based on the only thing I have to go on and trying to figure out where the truth lies amid all the contradictions.

No, you are saying what you have been told about me by folks in the purported hardcore community that have an axe to grind against me. You are parroting their bias and simply assuming them 100% correct. But, then again, it is natural to trust your pards.

The fact is, various people outside the Perryville parks desperately wanted to get me eliminated from the Perryville event despite that I was only doing what I was asked to do, nothing more and nothing less. That fight was carried out on this board with the active assistance and participation by the mods here. I was also attacked on several other boards (only one of which I replied on. I left the others go without comment).

What it all comes down to is that I dared to defy certain people who imagined themselves to be the rulers of all they surveyed in the hobby.

I won.

Your side lost.

Too bad for you.

But, what has always disheartened me was that the mods on this board were as active as they were in the attempted ouster and destruction of that event.

Still, I had a great time there, enjoyed working with the AOT (an organization that did a fantastic job on grounds that weekend) and left that event proud of our achievements and with a wealth of memories. Everything went great despite the attempts by so many here who tried their darndest to destroy everything.

I saw the absolute worst of the so-called hardcore community at the Perryville 2006 event. I saw how destructive this board could be.

There is no reason for me to forgive and forget. Mainly because there was never any rapprochement for such a forgiveness, They lost, we went on with the event, and they slunk away into the night never to mention it again.

Since then, I've learned never to trust this board or the moral authority of the claimed hardcore community.

I hope this helped answer some of your questions, if answers are, indeed, what you were looking for.

Yours,

WTH

cannnfodder
10-03-2007, 05:23 AM
OK, while we're getting way off the original subject, in response to the original question, why do mainstreamers do what they do- MONEY and TIME. Working 55 + hours a week, trying to make ends meet, raising a family, trying to make time for events (and stay married) taking an interest in history, I'll try to answer the original questions
1. Stainless steel- easier to take care of, less time
2. 22oz navy purple coats- I don't know, I've had my $159.00 uniform special from C&C sutlery for over 3 years now and can't complain one bit. 30+ events, rain, shine, no problems.
3. Modern work boots- as long as their black, until we save up the $100. + for decent brogans
4.Modern glasses- money- too much for original ones made to modern prescriptions
5. Plastic bottles- Ignorance, no excuse. Please bring it to their attention
6. cigarettes- Ignorance, ditto as above (maybe rip the filters off? ) I chew anyway!
7.Coolers- Try to keep them hidden or easily make a period correct one from a styrofoam filled wooden box
8. Coleman heaters- no excuse- bring an extra army surplus blanket
9.Flashlights- sometimes in the middle of the night it's the quickest thing to see- I try not to abuse it
10. Air beds- No excuse- SUCK IT UP-it's only 1-2 nights!!!
11. It's tough getting into a hobby 100% if you don't know if you'll stick with it- go a little bit at a time to see if you are really interested in it before spending gobs of dough. I know- I've been into classic cars ("67 Mustang Fastback), Dirtbikes, rollerblading, fishing, etc. All hobbies have there extreme hardcores, don't spend a ton of dough until you decide if you really like it. If you do, upgrade a little at a time, that way you stay married!
I know, I'm in it for the long haul (my family goes back to 1630) but for a newbie it's tough to commit a ton of money to a hobby you may not stick with. Don't get intimidated into thinking it"s hardcore or nothing at all- we appreciate you being there and turning out in numbers

tompritchett
10-03-2007, 09:21 AM
But, what has always disheartened me was that the mods on this board were as active as they were in the attempted ouster and destruction of that event.

For the record, contrary to the above accusation, we moderators, as moderators, have no interests in the promotion, organization or functioning of any event. Our function as moderators is solely to insure that dialog on this forum is conducted in a respectful manner - as it would be at a dinner party. We tend only to step in when the the parties in the discussion no longer are showing proper respect for the other parties in the discussion. These are obviously judgment calls on our part and, being human, we do sometimes make mistakes and/or miss the more subtle insults that are based upon specific events known only to the participants. Unfortunately, we moderators are only human but we do try to do our jobs in as unbiased manner as possible.

Also, there have been times that we have let some discussions play out for the purpose of allowing all the parties to give their sides of the story in order to let the full story finally come out. The incident WTH describes is one in which it became apparent that there had been an apparent and significant breakdown in communications between the Perryville park staff and the AOT command staff. Unfortunately WTH had not been aware of that breakdown and ended up being caught in the middle of a firestorm when he made his post because it ran counter to the what the AOT had thought the park staff had agreed to. Again, WTH was acting in good faith on the requests of the Park staff and was totally unaware that his post was exposing a serious breakdown in communications between the AOT commander, the overall commander for the CSA side as appointed by the park staff, and the park staff itself. Another example of a controversy being allowed to play out until the full story played out was the case where a PaARNG unit was initially severely condemned and official complaints were lodged through the state Army National Guard's chain of command against the unit's Bn commander by the organizers of the Remembrance Day Parade because of its color guard falling into the parade at the explicit request of the commander of the reenactor unit with whom they fell in. Again, this was the result of a grave misunderstanding which ultimately came to light through discussions on this forum.

Ohioreb1861
10-03-2007, 10:07 AM
Jeff,

I tried explaining that in not so many words and they stiff don't understand that. I believe they just don't wan mainstream people on the field anywhere till they do get all there stuff. the chp's could be given historic information to them by the hand of God himself!!! and they would still dispute it. To let everyone know, I'm a progressive and my gear gets upgarded every year. I'm trying to get new stuff by the next season.

If you guys think about it, this whole CHP vs. Mainstream thing is like a school yard. "my stuff is better than yours", "don't play with us till you have the name brand stuff, like ours, then we'll think about letting you play with us."

It takes some remembering, but it sounds familiar. But! this is my view of it. It makes me laugh every time.

Malingerer
10-03-2007, 10:25 AM
Correstion, is open arms is what I got, I hate to see what you do to other new members. thats why I left.

What, exactly, does this mean? I can't make heads or tails out of it.

Ohioreb1861
10-03-2007, 10:38 AM
What, exactly, does this mean? I can't make heads or tails out of it.

sorry lack of sleep, What I was trying to say was, I wasn't treated very well.

Memphis
10-03-2007, 01:40 PM
Sure...why can't canoes take part in the America's Cup?

Obviously elitism has ruined that hobby. :rolleyes:

Ohioreb1861
10-03-2007, 02:27 PM
Obviously elitism has ruined that hobby. :rolleyes:

I'm starting to wonder myself.

flattop32355
10-03-2007, 02:30 PM
If you guys think about it, this whole CHP vs. Mainstream thing is like a school yard. "my stuff is better than yours", "don't play with us till you have the name brand stuff, like ours, then we'll think about letting you play with us."


Let's put this one to rest once and for all:
There are horse anal openings on both sides of the argument. There are personality types on both sides, and everywhere in the middle, that I wouldn't associate with given the choice. Fortunately, they are, by far, the exception rather than the rule along the reenactor spectrum. Unfortunately, some of them seem compelled to haunt the various fora, believing that any opinion contrary to their own is a personal attack upon their right to breathe air. This is, of course, pure undiluted male bovine fecal matter.

I've been called everything from a hardcore wannabe to a militant farb in campaigner clothing. Coming from the persons who made both claims, I take them both as a compliment. I've played with both sides. Apparently I'm doing something right, or both sides wouldn't have people who don't like me. ;)

There's not a single one of us who is worth the effort to try to destroy his reputation or reeancting pursuits. I'm sorry, but we just aren't that critical to the world's existance to warrent such expenditure of time, money and effort, and for sure none of us are powerful enough to actually be able to pull it off.

You are correct about one thing: The entire pissing contest between "them and us" is juvenile. The part you're not quite seeing is that it originates from persons on both sides of the hobby, not just the cph. It's understandable that if one is on one side of the question, it is most obvious that the other side has faults, but an honest assessment demonstrates a relatively equal amount of pissy-ness no matter where it originates. Been there, done that, got the stains on my sackcoat, front and back, from standing in the middle.

Some believe that you should reenact as accurately as you can. Others believe that you should reenact as accurately as you want. Some even believe you can move between the extremes and live in both worlds. All have their place, and believe it or not, there is room for all to attend the same events under proper conditions and tolerance levels in order to achieve common goals.

Hearsay is common to both sides; both sides are generally misinformed when relying upon it. Ditch the paranoia, pre-conceived notions and rumors and dig for the facts of what is actually said and done. You'll probably find that most of it is pure bunkum (look it up), and unworthy of consideration.

indguard
10-05-2007, 09:29 PM
... is it just me or is it hilarious that Michael comer demands a reply of me, and then slinks off into the night without acknowledging that I did so??

And, nothing the mods here can say will erase what they tried to do to Perryville '06. Fact is, they colluded with certain parties to undermine the event. It almost worked, too.

huntdaw
10-05-2007, 11:01 PM
Didn't slink off. Read your reply. I just didn't think it was worth the effort and time to get into an argument that would never end.

I posted and you answered. I did not know I was supposed to do a rebuttal and keep the thing going. You and I have a difference of opinion about the hobby. In some things I'm sure we agree. Let's just let it go at that.

indguard
10-06-2007, 10:25 AM
Let's just let it go at that.

Fine.

But, a "thanks" would have been nice. Especially when you probably assumed that I wouldn't answer at all.

Have a nice day.

8th TexCav
10-06-2007, 11:22 AM
After reading this thread for quite a while I think my favorite quote applies.

"Homer Simpson, smiling politely."

I will move on to another forum for civilized and reasoned discourse.