stuck nipple

[BigYankee]

I have a armi sport 53 enfield and the previous owner didnt take good care of it. So now the nipple is completely stuck, i tried everything i could think of, niplle wrench, hot water, even pliers and the nipple is starting get rounded.

So does anyone know how to fix this?

[Dave Myrick]

I have a armi sport 53 enfield and the previous owner didnt take good care of it. So now the nipple is completely stuck, i tried everything i could think of, niplle wrench, hot water, even pliers and the nipple is starting get rounded.

So does anyone know how to fix this?
Soak the cone with a good pentrating oil, then use a tight fitting cone wrench. If that doesnt work, then try heating the bolster or simply take the thing to a gunsmith.
Dave Myrick

[BigYankee]

cool i'll soak it.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Once the square shoulders of the cone (nipple) get rounded, it gets harder to remove.

A few drops of penetrating oil on the cone (nipple), IMHO, is as good as a soaking. Sometimes ordinary light oil, and even WD-40 can seep into the threads overnight or so.

In addition to heat and penetrating oil, sometimes the right tool for the right job is needed.
A nipple wrench or combination tool works well for an unstuck cone (nipple), but sometimes one needs more "torque" to free it.
A 1/4 inch socket set wrench, or the 1/4 hex set often has enough enough torque and will fit even the Italian metric cones well enough. (And sometimes placing either one on the cone and rapping it with a hammer will set up a "harmonic" that will break it free..)

However, sometimes the threads have rusted and fused (often found on poorer condition originals), and they need drilled and "easy outtted" and removed.

IMHO, for what a gunmsith would charge, you can buy a single 1/4 socket or hex-driver and have dollars to spare. My local black-powder shop would do it for free if they thought they could sell you a replacement cone to put back in...)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[7thNJcoA]

I just had this problem... One of our new members got a 61 springfield from his uncle who left the hobby 10 years ago and put it away after an event (with out cleaning it) and put it in the basement. NO OIL OR ANYTHING. When we saw this thing it made me almost cry. I have seeing any firearm abused!!! I had a small can of WD 40 and sprayed a bit in the barrel and used a piece of leather to block the cone between the hammer. I sloshed it around the barrel and left the tompion on. After bout an hour we tried to get the cone out and give it a good cleaning it was tough we ended up using robo grip pliers and tapped it lightly with a hammer it finaly gave and we took the old cone and trashed it and put a nice stainless steel one on they are much easier to clean. It makes me mad when I see someone get something like this handed down to them and not know how to clean it and is stuck with a piece of junk till someone helps them clean it up. You should see it now I stripped and refinished the stock and cleaned the barrel and polished all the metal looks like a new gun! Since I was already working with It I defarbed it too not a bad deal for 50 bucks...

[BigYankee]

im soaking it as we speak. I used the robo grips and nothing, but now i'm soaking it overnight and i'll try it tomorrow with the robo grips and order a new nipple if/when i get it out.

thanks for all the help

[Jim Mayo]

Get a 3/8 allen wrench and a 3/8, 1/4 inch drive socket. Put the square end of the socket over the cone if it will fit. If the cone is damaged it may not. Take the 3/8 allen wrench and use it on the end of the socket to remove the nipple. Don't put all your strength into it (your name is Big yankee) because it could break the cone off. I have never come across one I couldn't get out using this method unless it was a 100 year old original that had been screwed in forever.

[BigYankee]

cool, i'll go see if i can find one

[Southern Cal]

I've had many similar problems over the years with used "irons" I've acquired or helping other pards get their's working after neglecting them. I remove all carbon deposits from the nipple area with an old toothbrush and dental picks (and occasionally carburetor cleaner, oiling immediately afterwards). Then I apply order of preference, Kroil or Liquid Wrench, a drop or two around the nipple (into the nipple as well so some oil gets on the inside of the bolster and barrel where the nipple screws in) and let it sit a day or two, tapping the nipple lightly with a brass punch every day. After a day or so I give the cone a twist with the nipple wrench. If it don't budge I add a drop of oil and wait another day or so doing the same operation. The nipples or screws almost always come out eventually. The method using the sockets described above is a very good idea. Don't know why I didn't try it before. Even an old trooper can learn something new.

[fifthnycav]

Or... You could just, buy a new musket......:rolleyes: :p

[Frenchie]

Jim Mayo's method is one of those "Why didn't I think of that?" moments, what a great idea!

I'd definitely soak the whole thing in Kroil (love that stuff) for a day before trying anything.

But after it's out, I'm thinking the nipple threads will need to be re-cut to a slightly larger size due to corrosion. A bottoming tap would be good for this, or a slightly oversize Ampco nipple could be forced into the cleaned, oiled threads. Dixie Gun Works has Ampco nipples in many incremental sizes from .250 up to .285. You could get three or four and force them into the threads, smallest size first, to "stretch" out the threaded hole until you have a solid base for it, absolutely necessary for safety.

[reb64]

If you have to do some drilling, wrenching, soaking etc on the nipple, perhaps removing it from the stock will save the lock spring form snapping. some penetrants have been known to snap a lockspring.

[Frenchie]

I think it's taken for granted that he'll be doing all this with the barrel removed from the stock. But tell me, how does penetrating oil cause the lockspring (by which I assume you mean the mainspring) to break?

[tompritchett]

If you have to do some drilling, wrenching, soaking etc on the nipple, perhaps removing it from the stock will save the lock spring form snapping. some penetrants have been known to snap a lockspring.

Excellent reminder.

I think it's taken for granted that he'll be doing all this with the barrel removed from the stock.

Frenchie, surely you remember what your NCOs in the real military about making assumptions. :D

[BigYankee]

I did remove the stock, but still working on it, havent been to the store yet
i will today though.

A fellow in my unit said he'll do the work on it for what it cost to buy the supplies, so i'll have him take a look at it.

[reb64]

I think it's taken for granted that he'll be doing all this with the barrel removed from the stock. But tell me, how does penetrating oil cause the lockspring (by which I assume you mean the mainspring) to break?

I personally saw a guy using pb bl@#ter on his nipple with stock on, some got into the lock area and I heard a pop, it was the mainspring snapping. another time i saw a guy about to use another big name brand liquid wrench type product and I warned him, but again, some got intop thge lock and again another pop. From camp fire chat I heard of one other case. This time a fellow was actually cleaning the lock with a liquid wrench type product and it snapped. I haven't investigated the cause fully, but it happened once the cleaners soaked the mainspring. perhaps a chemist or some knows why on this forum.


I only can say use caution since all liguid wrench/gun oils/cleaners are not the same or safe for all metals. I have seen some springs that look like heat treated steel, some bright steel, some looked like iron or others are much thinner than others.

[31stWisconsin]

I fail to see how oil or any penetrate can affect the grain structure of steel. The only thing that can change this is either stress or rapid temperature change. It sounds like an old wives tale to me.

[Frenchie]

He claims to have seen this happen. I have some WD40, Kroil and BreakFree CLP here. I sold my musket, but I have a complete ArmiSport lock, a Henry carbine and four revolvers. I'm going to soak the entire lock and all five mainsprings in penetrating oils overnight, then try them out tomorrow. Stay tuned.

[Frenchie]

I only can say use caution since all liquid wrench/gun oils/cleaners are not the same or safe for all metals. I have seen some springs that look like heat treated steel, some bright steel, some looked like iron or others are much thinner than others.

Okay, I think I can safely bet you can't explain why penetrating oils aren't safe for all metals. You might be able to answer this, though: why would a company make a lubricant or penetrating oil that was unsafe to use on certain metals, and not put a warning about it on their product containers? And how do you think it's happened that in the 40 plus years since I started working on cars, engines, firearms and many other machines, I've never heard anything like the idea that oils of any kind can damage the structure of spring or any other kind of steel?

For pity's sake, you say the most outrageous things and it seems you never bother to try to back them up with facts. Whatever you may think you saw, it's absolute nonsense to claim that any kind of oil can weaken a spring and cause it to break.

[tompritchett]

I personally saw a guy using pb bl@#ter on his nipple with stock on, some got into the lock area and I heard a pop, it was the mainspring snapping. another time i saw a guy about to use another big name brand liquid wrench type product and I warned him, but again, some got intop thge lock and again another pop. From camp fire chat I heard of one other case. This time a fellow was actually cleaning the lock with a liquid wrench type product and it snapped. I haven't investigated the cause fully, but it happened once the cleaners soaked the mainspring. perhaps a chemist or some knows why on this forum.


I only can say use caution since all liguid wrench/gun oils/cleaners are not the same or safe for all metals. I have seen some springs that look like heat treated steel, some bright steel, some looked like iron or others are much thinner than others.

Speaking as a chemist, the only two ways that I can think that penetrating oils could have this effect are as follow: 1) the mainspring was already fairly corroded and the the dissolving of the corrosion further weakened that area of the mainspring that it finally gave or 2) the locking pin for the mainspring was semi-loose and the penetrating oil broke loose whatever residue was still holding the pin in place allowing it to pop loose. As far as I know, by themselves, penetrating oils are not designed to attack healthy metal but rather break loose corrosion that might be binding two metal pieces together. I am not saying that what you heard did not occur but am rather trying to give possible explanations based upon the chemistry of these oils and the various tensions on the spring in the lockplate area. I am sure that others with even more knowledge of the internal workings of the lockplate might have even more possible explanations.

[69TH NYSV CO.C]

Use Wd-40 It Will Work!

[Russell Stanleu]

Adam
Do not heat your cone, lock, or anything .you can do serious damage that way.Hopefully you haven't done it already.Use the appropriate size easy out. lots of penetrent and gentle pressure. Keep the heat away. Just trying to save you a musket and possibly your face.And anyone else that is standing around you. A sixth grade science book will tell you what excessive heat will do to metal.
Russ Stanley

[1stTexas]

Hope the threads do not come out of the bolster with the nipple.

It took me three weeks to find a nipple that fit my defarbed P53 Enfield. I tried every supplier I could locate on the internet. The company that defarbed my ArmiSport P53 Enfield said it was "supposed" to be a 8mm x 1 but it is not. The only supplier I found that had the correct nipple for my P53 Enfield was Dixie Gun Works and it was special design 5/16" x 18 (DGW item NP1430). Every other 5/16" x 18 nipple I purchased will not completely seat. DGW was out of stock when I placed my order and I waited two weeks before they were shipped. I bought six nipples in case they are out of stock again because that particular nipple must be uncommon because no other 5/16" x 18 nipple is made just like it. I was told that a Parker-Hale P53 Enfield used a 5/16" x 18 nipple. In my personal opinion, I think my ArmiSport P53 Enfield bolster was damaged by the company that defarbed my rifle and the nipple threads were retapped to fit a 5/16" x 18 Parker-Hale nipple.

If you don't take the threads out of the bolster with the nipple, be sure and put a small daub of Gorilla Grease (breech plug grease) on the new nipple threads.