Catridge Pack Labels!

[69TH NYSV CO.C]

Hi All,

Any One Knows Where I Can Get Some Pack Labels For My Catridges Im Looking For New York Arsenal 1864 Any Information Will Be Very Helpful Thanks All Sincerly Pvt J.day 69th Nysv Co.c

[wagen dawg]

69th NY;

I got copies of mine from The CW Museum in Harrisburg. They have a St. Louis Arsenal 1864 and an Allegheny Arsenal 1861. You could also check with The QM Museum at Ft. Lee to see if they have any.

I'm also sending you a pm.

Tim 28th MA. Co H

[69TH NYSV CO.C]

i couldnt find any anywhere else you might reccommend

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Not to intrude on your quest but..
Historically speaking if you are interested in more authentic cartridge bundles you do not want bundle wrappers with arsenal labels for War time Federal cartridges unless it is St. Louis.

When the new M1855 series came out, the Ordanance Department recategorized the arsenals and armories based upon the type of work done there. (The New York Arsenal was an "Arsenal of Deposit" and did not make cartridges.)

In October 1856, the Ordnance Board recommended that the wrappers of packages be printed stating the nature of the contents. To help ensure uniformity, they set out to distribute samples. Frankford Arsneal was ordered to make the stamps, but only for the "Arsenals of Construction" Watervliet, Allegheny, St. Louis, Washington, and Benicia. However it was suggested that rather than stamps, they should use small printing presses. The five presses and plates for labels were done by mid 1857.

The labels were dropped at four of the five arsenals by 1861 and were gone by the time the 1861 Ordnance Manual was put together.
The 1861 edition of the U.S. Ordnance Manual calls for color-coded wrappers, but does not mention of printing labels or using them. No surviving correspondence exists directing the arsenals to stop marking labels, however Allegheny did continue into 1861 so there are surviving bandles/labels from there marked 1861.
The exception is St. Louis ho continued to use labels.

For the Civil War, the vast majority of cartridge packets made at the federal arsenals are unmarked, plain, "ordinary" bundles. Ammo attributed to a specific arsenal) other than St. Louis) if it was from an identified wooden packing box.


Also, much like the federal depot system, a unit raised close to an arsenal was not a guarrantee that the unit would be armed from that arsenal or even the nearest arsenal (or depot). The system shipped back and forth as needed, and a New York unit, depending upon time and place, might have even been using any arsenal's ammo depending upon how the requisitions were filled and shipped by the Ordnance Department..

In the 1980's in the era before computers and printers, there was a thriving industry of "cut and paste xeroxing" where creative lads and enterprising sutlers took copies of existing Pre War labels, and simply changed the late 1850's dates or so to 1861-1864 dates. Or took St Louis arsenal labels and changed the arsenal.

They still circulate in some circles as X generation copies of copies of copies of...

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[7thNJcoA]

Labels are not the best idea. Alot of progressive events dont want you to use labels for some of the above mentioned reasons. For a living history display you should just wrap them generic with no arsenal label or a generic laber IE...


577. Caliber
Rifled Musket

something along this sort with a small picture of a minne ball on the top usually works I saw one like this at an aution once. Also if for living history instead of using black powder and wasting 10 rounds try some sand to fill the powder cylinder.

[bob 125th nysvi]

I was at the Watervliet Arsenal Museum (on the Arsenal Grounds) and the person I spoke to said that he was pretty sure that the museum had examples of Watervliet Arsenal Packs, marked as such, going into the CW but wasn't sure of the date that they stopped marking the packs as coming from Watervliet.

Since at the time I wasn't interested in making my own but I'll try to get around to following up with them. (Been meaning to get over there anyway I think they have a Thompson gun on display I'd like to see.)

My office is just across the river (about 5 minutes).

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

I was at the Watervliet Arsenal Museum (on the Arsenal Grounds) and the person I spoke to said that he was pretty sure that the museum had examples of Watervliet Arsenal Packs, marked as such, going into the CW but wasn't sure of the date that they stopped marking the packs as coming from Watervliet.

Since at the time I wasn't interested in making my own but I'll try to get around to following up with them. (Been meaning to get over there anyway I think they have a Thompson gun on display I'd like to see.)

My office is just across the river (about 5 minutes).

That would be great. As the existance of a post 1861 Watervliet Arsenal label would be contrary to where our collective knowledge now resides- and would move it forward.

Please report back, especially now that my curiousity is "peaked."

Thanks, and regards!

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[pvt. Tony]

Could someone direct me to instructions for making proper paper cartridges and cartridge packs? A boolket of instructions or a link would be great! pvt. Tony, newby

[Western Blue Belly]

Could someone direct me to instructions for making proper paper cartridges and cartridge packs? A boolket of instructions or a link would be great! pvt. Tony, newby

Google is a wonderful thing…

http://members.aol.com/wis33rd/33articles/authcart.html

http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge.htm

http://www.17thmicoe.org/Paper%20Cartridges.htm

Or one could turn to page 105 in a copy of the CRRC II.

[pvt. Tony]

Thanks Ken.

[bob 125th nysvi]

there wasn't a "New York" Arsenal was there?

There was a New York Depot but they didn't (I think) make or contract out for cartridges there. Everything else under the sun but not cartridges.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

I thought I covered that earlier... ;-) :-) :-)

New York had two arsenals, "Watervliet" at West Troy, and "New York" at Governor's Island in New York Harbor.
Watervliet was a "1st Class' arsenal and an "Arsenal of Construction."
New York was a "3rd Class" arseanl and an "Arsenal of Deposit." (But had been made an arsenal in 1835 and had made cartridges prior to the Civil War.

To add to the confusion, there was also a New York Depot.

And to further mess things up, the five "arsenals of construction" that made cartridges ALSO purchased cartridges from private manufacturers. For example, Allegheny Arsenal used at least eleven companies to supplement their own production. Plus Allegheny purchased cartridges in New York City from private makers.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt