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OVI
07-26-2007, 12:04 AM
Lets get the ball rolling on Chris Anders 145th Gettysburg. Its set for 4000 military reenactors. Given that number and the scale, what scenarios would you like to see done and what troops can that number portray? Remember, this event is going to be about history...not some shoot-em-up!!!

Kent Dorr
"Devils Own Mess"

indguard
07-26-2007, 05:01 AM
To start with, he'd never get 4,000 participants.

WTH

Claude Sinclair
07-26-2007, 05:34 AM
To start with, he'd never get 4,000 participants.

WTH

The NSA is talking about putting one of the two Gettysburg on their schedule for 2008. My guess is that they will opt for Anders event and our battalion supports the NSA.

plankmaker
07-26-2007, 06:18 AM
The actions in the Wheatfield. In particular, the actions of 4th Brigade, 1st Division of 2nd Corps. Richard A. Sauers has researched and documented the actions in great detail. I also have quite a bit of information on the 53d PVI and its part of the attack. It would be good to see this type of action carried off as it would have a lot of attack and counter attacks. It was tried at the 135th, but didn't go off so well.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

plankmaker
07-26-2007, 06:40 AM
I couldn't remember if I had a linky dinky or not.

http://www.geocities.com/plankmaker_1999/GETTYSBURGCAMPAIGN.html

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

Regular3
07-26-2007, 06:52 AM
The actions in the Wheatfield. (snip) It would be good to see this type of action carried off as it would have a lot of attack and counter attacks. It was tried at the 135th, but didn't go off so well.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TNI'd be all for the Wheatfield as well, since that's where the Regular division saw its major action of the battle. I thought that scenario was done pretty well at the 125th, with one battalion after another on both sides going in and getting pushed back.

Anders
07-26-2007, 06:53 AM
Folks,
I am interested in your ideas, and will be reading this thread hourly...:)

But keep in mid scenarios are often dectated by the land availible.

If I had my druthers it would be

Archer's Brigade at Willoughby Run/or Rail Road Cut/Or Iverson's Attack

Culps Hill on July 3

Dusk Attack on Cemetary Hill

Wheatfield- many scenarios to pick from

But the land will dictate the scenarios of course

Figure on 3 scenarios for the weekend.

Pards,

Jubilo
07-26-2007, 08:17 AM
Dear Sir ,
I suggest Iron Brigade vs. Archer ; Little Round Top and for many folks including spectators ( i.e. , the average person interested in history but not a hobbyist ), it would really have to include Pickett's Charge to do Gettysburg justice . I think you could get 4,000 reenactors if the event was promoted globally . The next "big " Getyysburg reenactment will probably have A.A.R.P. sponsorship .
all for the old flag,
David Corbett

skamikaze
07-26-2007, 08:34 AM
I'd love a scenario that involved either the 72nd or 95th PA since we have the uniforms. If there is not, there is a good chance we will not attend because our zouave uniform is our main impression and our standard federal impressions are not up to snuff for most members of the unit. I would rather go to your event but if it means that members of my group cannot come I will probably stay with the unit. I don't want to do the g-burg carnival either so hopefully you can incorporate a few zouaves in the mix.

I'll provide the documentation of our involvement as well!

And I agree with Mr. Corbett, although it seems so lame to those who have seen it a million times, there should probably be a pickett's charge. Besides, unless you are really trying to, it is hard to mess that scenario up. And the 72nd was behind the wall too!

Dunn Browne
07-26-2007, 08:38 AM
To start with, he'd never get 4,000 participants.

WTH

My guess is that Chris will have to turn folks away. Registration in my unit's parent organization for September Storm is up well over 50% what we have been turning out for an event the last couple of years. We also had our largest turnout since the 140th Spotsylvania for Down the Valley this past June.

A quality event with all the proceeds going to preservation. I would register now if I could. Thanks for all your hard work Chris.

TimKindred
07-26-2007, 08:41 AM
Chris, and all...

Well, here's what I would like to see: Gettysburg, Day 2.

If you can replicate the Emittsburg Road, you could run a skirmish/piquet line all night long the way both sides did. In the morining, there is a bit of a lull although sporadic firing keeps up.

On the federal side, 3 Corps is beginning to shake itself out, after the second division arrived during the night. Around noon, Sickles send out a recon force of 100 men in 4 companies from the 1st USSS, supported by the 210-man strong 3rd Maine to Pitzers woods to see what's up. They run into a brigade of Alabama & Georgia troops, some 1100 strong, and get into a vicious firefight at close range for nearly a half an hour before the feds pull back.

Sickles has seen everything he needs to support his deployment of 3rd Corps along the pike with his left refused along plum run.

Meanwhile, Longstreet's corps has to divert further around because of Sickle's deployment. Sporadic firing between skirmishes occirs all during this time, supported by some artillery.

Meanwhile, the troops in the Peach Orchard spot Hood's division crossing the Emittsburg Pike and call up a battery to harass it. Finally, Hood is deployed and begins his assault.

This sort of an action could be done in real time over the course of a single day. It could allow participants to be assigned to portray members of specific commands and identify with them and learn more about what happened to those fellows. Yes, it would be scaled down like a wargame, about 10:1 ratios, meaning a 100-man reenactor group would portray a 1000-man brigade, but it could be done.

Anyway, that's my 2-cent's worth. The opportunity to recreate a single day of the battle in real time might be a big draw, and certainly something I do not remember being done before.

This, of course, doesn't mean you couldn't do other scenarios on other days, but the 2nd day's actions of 3rd Corps offer much potential, to this old fellow's thoughts.

Respects,

skamikaze
07-26-2007, 08:50 AM
The only reason he may not get the 4000 is that this is an anniversary year for g-burg and a lot of mainstream units are giving it one last shot. That's the reason some units in our org. are going to the Lomas event. They want to see one more "big" gettysburg but with the quality and complaints of the last few years and the rival event, I don't think even the Lomas event will get 4,000.

Oh well. I'm just looking forward to september storm.

OVI
07-26-2007, 09:03 AM
The only reason he may not get the 4000 is that this is an anniversary year for g-burg and a lot of mainstream units are giving it one last shot. That's the reason some units in our org. are going to the Lomas event.
.

This will be a mainstream event....just one based on history and with some standards. Why play in the minors when the big leagues are calling?

Tim...I like your idea.

Kent Dorr
"Devils Own Mess"

RJSamp
07-26-2007, 09:03 AM
Chris, and all...

Well, here's what I would like to see: Gettysburg, Day 2.

If you can replicate the Emittsburg Road, you could run a skirmish/piquet line all night long the way both sides did. In the morining, there is a bit of a lull although sporadic firing keeps up.

Respects,

What would be fun here would be to recreate Humphrey's night march to get to the battlefield on July 1-2. Bugler's tacit (silent)....they actually run smack dab into the confederate picket line...and an artillery bugler doesn't get the word and sounds the artillery halt. A bunch of rebels come over to the road to see what's up and it's bit of a ticklish situation while the federal column goes cross lots and moves East away from the rebels position.

TimKindred
07-26-2007, 09:25 AM
RJ,

Yeah,

I can imagine Humphries nearly swallowing his tonque to keep from killing that guy.

What is amazing is that they had to counter-march the entire division at night. Wow. The logistics of such a move amazes me today.

For those who might want to recreate that march, it's not hard. Emittsburg to Gettysburg, depending upon which set of original routes you use, is between 9 and 11 miles. I was part of a group of 110 who did it about 10 years ago. We spent the night before on the same fields that 3rd Corps camped on, and stepped off around 8am. Even with hourly 10-minute halys, we made it to Gettysburg to the reenactment site by about 1pm, and that without breaking a sweat, as they say. Doing it at night would be even easier with the cooler temperatures, et al.

ideas... ideas....

Respects,

skamikaze
07-26-2007, 09:32 AM
Well, if you are up for a march to gettysburg, this event looks pretty good:

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4935

I am going to try it.

Memphis
07-26-2007, 09:42 AM
To start with, he'd never get 4,000 participants.

Yet another shining example of the power of positive thinking! :rolleyes:

TimKindred
07-26-2007, 09:55 AM
Well, if you are up for a march to gettysburg, this event looks pretty good:

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4935

I am going to try it.


Yes, but I am not interested at the present time in marching the ENTIRE route from the Rapidan to Gburg :) Not that I find it physically daunting. I walk from 3-5 miles a day at present. However, I simply cannot get time off for that as well as Chris's event, etc.

Sad, but true. I need to figure out a way to get paid for reenacting.

Respects,

cblodg
07-26-2007, 11:08 AM
Chris, and all...

Well, here's what I would like to see: Gettysburg, Day 2.

If you can replicate the Emittsburg Road, you could run a skirmish/piquet line all night long the way both sides did. In the morining, there is a bit of a lull although sporadic firing keeps up.

On the federal side, 3 Corps is beginning to shake itself out, after the second division arrived during the night. Around noon, Sickles send out a recon force of 100 men in 4 companies from the 1st USSS, supported by the 210-man strong 3rd Maine to Pitzers woods to see what's up. They run into a brigade of Alabama & Georgia troops, some 1100 strong, and get into a vicious firefight at close range for nearly a half an hour before the feds pull back.

Sickles has seen everything he needs to support his deployment of 3rd Corps along the pike with his left refused along plum run.

Meanwhile, Longstreet's corps has to divert further around because of Sickle's deployment. Sporadic firing between skirmishes occirs all during this time, supported by some artillery.

Meanwhile, the troops in the Peach Orchard spot Hood's division crossing the Emittsburg Pike and call up a battery to harass it. Finally, Hood is deployed and begins his assault.

This sort of an action could be done in real time over the course of a single day. It could allow participants to be assigned to portray members of specific commands and identify with them and learn more about what happened to those fellows. Yes, it would be scaled down like a wargame, about 10:1 ratios, meaning a 100-man reenactor group would portray a 1000-man brigade, but it could be done.

Anyway, that's my 2-cent's worth. The opportunity to recreate a single day of the battle in real time might be a big draw, and certainly something I do not remember being done before.

This, of course, doesn't mean you couldn't do other scenarios on other days, but the 2nd day's actions of 3rd Corps offer much potential, to this old fellow's thoughts.

Respects,

Tim I love these ideas! I feel that the 3rd Corps involvement goes no further than Sickles controversy, but as you pointed out provided some needed extra time.

Not to mention the fact that two NH regiments fought in this action. 12th NH further up and along the Emmitsburg Road, and the 2nd NH at the vertex of Sickels' line in the Peach Orchard.

I too would like to see the Wheatfield done 'right' and I think Mr. Anders is the one to do it!

Huzzah for all of your hard work Mr. Anders!


Chris

bob 125th nysvi
07-26-2007, 11:15 AM
that the first day's actions would be a great jumping off point.

If you could get enough of them it would give the Cavalry a chance to do something they really never get to portray, an extended holding action.

On the Union side the infantry would get a chance to come up straight from the march and replace the cavalry on the MLR (a difficult manuver).

On the Confederate side they'd have to shake out units as they arrived, get them into action and then coordinate a flanking attack.

Everybody would have lots to do.

I think Little Round Top would also be a nice scenario because of scale. It really was about a brigade sized action in a limited space (our battlelines would look fairly realistic) with a limited number of guns in support. It might come fairly close to realistic force ratios and be a nice stand up little fight.

8thILCavalry
07-26-2007, 11:31 AM
First Day action would be a great one. But thats just me because of the unit I am in. (8th IL CAV First Shot at Gettysburg). LOL But I remember 135th battle of the first day and it was VERY INTENSE.

If the organizers can promise NOT to postpone Gettysburg next year, Our unit would LOVE to join in. but after 2003 we are very cautious.

Our unit is planning a trip to Gettysburg next year but the joining in the battles is questionable at the moment.
We are talking about tours and sightseeing.

tompritchett
07-26-2007, 01:56 PM
They want to see one more "big" gettysburg but with the quality and complaints of the last few years and the rival event, I don't think even the Lomas event will get 4,000.

They will get it if for no other reason than Chris can only accommodate 4000 reenactors.

flattop32355
07-26-2007, 02:08 PM
Since the land will be a major factor in determining what actions are feasible, could we have an idea of the layout of the land available? Even a sketch map with prominent terrain features, such as streams, hills, woods and fields, buildings would allow for a better understanding of what can be done. Let's make use of some of that officers' training from this past spring at Bedford. Somehow, I doubt that Google Earth will be detailed enough at close resolution to help, although having the coordinates would be nice.

While we need to accomodate spectators, please make them secondary to the reenactors for the fighting. Rather than a panorama of the action, let them feel the uncertainty as men rush by, both advancing and withdrawing. A well choreographed battle can ebb and flow across their viewshed while we take care of business.

Our goal shouldn't be to "give them what they expect" as far as the mandatory Pickett's Charge; they can see that anywhere. Let's give them nasty fighting from days 1 & 2. If they want an extra battle, and we have enough cavalry, what better than East Field from day 3? The Horsey People would be thrilled.

To be honest, I really don't give a rat's tee-heiney-boo what scenarios we do, so long as they are moderately accurate and intense. A four hour fire fight with an hour of spectator display and a lull or two would go down just fine. Let's just not do Culp's Slight-Rise-In-The-Ground or Devil's Rock.

Evan3MD
07-26-2007, 03:44 PM
I would like to see the late Afternoon of July 1st - mainly the I Corps part - that would be cool.



Evan

Dignann
07-26-2007, 04:26 PM
I am interested in your ideas, and will be reading this thread hourly...:)

But the land will dictate the scenarios of course

Figure on 3 scenarios for the weekend.
Since you're interested...I understand that the land will determine the actions to be depicted, and since I've not seen the property I won't offer suggestions on them. I would, however, ask that you consider two battle actions, instead of three. Three crammed into a weekend can be rather taxing, especially in the July heat. I'm sure we, the participants, would be just as happy with two engagements, and I seriously doubt that an additional one will result in more spectators.

Good luck, Chris. I'm sure my unit will seriously consider this event when we set down to discuss our 2008 schedule.

Eric

Anders
07-26-2007, 07:09 PM
ERic,

Thanks for the kind words. The number of scenarios is not based on the public at all, in fact not too much is.

We always do either a dawn or dusk scenario just for participants with no spectators, for more realism.

We'll see what all this brings, right now I am up to my eyeballs in September Storm.

Pards,

indguard
07-26-2007, 07:24 PM
This will be a mainstream event....just one based on history and with some standards. Why play in the minors when the big leagues are calling?

If it is true that it "will be a mainstream event", WHY do it??? You also make the lie to that claim with your follow up saying "Why play in the minors" etc, etc. You would have no need to call Anders' event a "major league" event if it didn't intend to be more than mainstream.

Someone else said he will turn people away, of that I am sure. But it won't be no 4,000! Not with the "other" Gettysburg going for a big anniversary event again the same year/month.

A lot of units had begun to get their minds set on a "big one" for this year. If Anders really goes ahead with this one this year all he will do is make both of them smaller.

Personally, I think it would make better sense to plan it right and do it for 2009. Give everyone plenty of advanced notice and get past this year's date. I think Anders can make a great event, but why purposefully set it up to compete with one that had been on everyone's radar screen in 2008?

I really do, though, wish him luck with the plans. Gettysburg is, indeed, a touchy issue with the eastern block of the hobby. I have every confidence that he can make a good event.

I do question whether there are 4,000 reenactors of the caliber that he wants at an event in the whole hobby, though. Do you really think there are 4,000 CPHers even out there?

When even mainstream events are lucky to get 5,000 participants anymore, can an event of 4,000 "hardcores" come off?

I just don't see it.

bill watson
07-26-2007, 07:50 PM
"I think Anders can make a great event, but why purposefully set it up to compete with one that had been on everyone's radar screen in 2008?"

For the history? In a battle anniversary year?

Aren't you being a little disingenuous? Trying to suggest this one is better on an off year?

And what's this hardcore thing? Trying to scare folks? Let's move on.

You're getting an event that is history's servant, run by folks who are trying to provide a better experience for the reenactor and, vicariously, for the spectator.

You've still got a chance to find out what it's about at September Storm, you know? If you haven't done one of these events, you're filling in a lot of blanks with an overactive imagination. And we're trying to describe the elephant to people who have only seen the king's cameleopard.

Dave Myrick
07-26-2007, 07:52 PM
I'd love to see Farnsworth's charge done, but in reality it can't. Getting the number of mounted troopers on the field and able to pull off a charge against a line of infantry would be ambitious to say the least. Buford's stand on July 1 would be great, it would give a chance to work the mounted and dismounted cavalry into a scenario. Just dont do the July 3rd cavalry action on the East Cav field. Something else that would be interesting would be the 6th US at Fairfield. Not technically a Gettysburg "battle" but Fairfield isnt that far away and it was on July 3rd.

Dave Myrick
Grumpy Horse Soldier

Memphis
07-26-2007, 07:52 PM
In defense of the minor league players in baseball, they do try harder, and the game is much more gritty and real. At least to me it is, and if I'm buying the ticket, I want to see players who play to win, and not just play "not to get hurt."

Getting 4000 hardcores? Think of it as weeding out 4000 who might not be ready for the minor league.

westcoastcampaigner
07-26-2007, 08:05 PM
All,

Can Chris get 4,000 participants for this event...sure. Will they all be of C/P/H quality...probably not. From what I observed at Down the Valley, Chris is not looking to get everyone on the field with a 100% C/P/H impression. He is, however, looking for folks that are willing to follow the uniform guidelines as best as possible and make the necessary changes to their impressions for the event so that they are better than your average farb. I don't think any mainstream unit will be turned away from any of Chris's events if they follow the rules, make an effort to to improve their impressions before taking the field and come to the event with a positive attitude. Wall tants, cots and coolers aren't gonna cut the mustard.

Chris has done an excellent job thus far of making these types of events work, sure there are always snags here and there and you will always have those who aren't happy with certain things (it's to be expected) but 9 times out of 10 you will leave one of Chris's events taking more with you that you ever will coming from a Lomas event.

Chris my hat is off to you for taking on this enormous task and I look forward to updates. Can I also say that I would love to see a dusk or dawn assault on Culp's Hill...an incredible amount of action that is so often overlooked.

Remember what Jim Morrison told Wayne in Wayne's World 2..."If you build it, they will come."

Josh Sawyer
Liberty Rifles
Hardtack Society

dedogtent
07-26-2007, 08:29 PM
As we had low level plans on the 145th 'Big One' next year in Gettysburg, that has all changed for me with this event announcement. I have already sent the notice out to my company and I am sure they will all follow me to this Chris Anders event. Also, the 2nd Delaware can't wait for September Storm.

Parault
07-26-2007, 10:11 PM
I want to do Devil's Den. The second day. The 3rd Ark did that one. We don't get to portray the 3rd down here in Arkansas. I was told we will be the 3rd at least one battle. That is something else that we don't get to do, fly the 3rd's flag,only when we come east. I will be carrying the flag. We actually took the orginial out of display and examined and handled it. We had one guy that made the flag by hand like the ladies of Fredricksburg I am more excited about doing the monument ceremony than doing any battle. I am going to bring a handful of soil from my Grt Grt Grandfathers grave and place it on the marker. There are a few others in our unit that talked about doing the same thing with their ancestor's grave dirt. After the second days battle I don't care what unit we portray. I am very excited about Gettysburg.

Silas
07-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Longstreet's countermarch. From my studies about it, no one really knows specifically how it was done, but much was written about its effect upon the battle.

If Hoods' and McLaw's divisions performed the countermarch as written in the SoC and SoB, then the order of march for the two divisions and the respective brigades therein would have reversed. There was no reversal. I'm not talking about the reenactor countermarch which is not found in the SoC or SoB, but occurs at reenactments all over America.

McLaw's postwar speech makes it clear he did his best to make sure his brigades marched in columns of companies - after - the big turnaround. It's not clear how they marched before then. Probably the same. This is the practice noted in Hardee's and Casey's SoB.

This is something we don't see reenacting companies perform : marching in column of companies. It's always by the flank which is a much slower method of travelling because the formation elongates well beyond its original length.

What happens when a road is only wide enough to support a platoon? Either break a certain number of files temporarily behind the company or break the companies into platoons. Both are infrequently done by reenactors who seem to have a hard enough time doubling into fours.

Silas Tackitt

TimKindred
07-26-2007, 11:25 PM
I want to do Devil's Den. The second day. The 3rd Ark did that one. We don't get to portray the 3rd down here in Arkansas. I was told we will be the 3rd at least one battle. That is something else that we don't get to do, fly the 3rd's flag,only when we come east.

Well,

You fellows might actually be portraying the 3rd Arkansas, but historically, the entire brigade got mixed together about the time they got to Plum Run.

John Polley and Val Giles both recount how the regiments began to get squeezed together, then overlapped, and finally ended up pretty much all mingled together with fellows from different companies and regiments side by side, or in small groups.

Don't get me wrong here. I am NOT putting down your unit or you. But historically, that fight was one of the worst the Texas Brigade ever got into, and it ended up a true soldier's fight, both sides under cover and no way to really get out of there until after dark fell.

Like I posted earlier, it would be neat to recreate a good portion of the 2nd day's fight in real time.

Respects,

flattop32355
07-27-2007, 03:57 AM
I do question whether there are 4,000 reenactors of the caliber that he wants at an event in the whole hobby, though. Do you really think there are 4,000 CPHers even out there?
When even mainstream events are lucky to get 5,000 participants anymore, can an event of 4,000 "hardcores" come off?

There aren't 4,000 "hardcores" in the hobby.
However, there are 4,000 reenactors (and probably many more) of good quality who can meet and surpass the required standards for the event.

The vast majority of them will be mainstreamers who like, or desire to try, to do events that are somewhat more demanding than what is considered to be the run-of-the-mill standard event.

For those who don't think that they measure up, for whatever reasons, they have almost an entire year to work on drill, impression, etc, to gain that knowledge and experience needed. All it will take is a mild to moderate amount of effort to get where they want to be.

Also, keep in mind that many of the things that prevent someone from meeting the standards for such events are simply things not to bring to the event; excessive tentage, coolers and other modern items, heavier cooking gear, and the like. Leaving such behind for a weekend is not much of a hardship. It's amazing what you can do with a boiler, cup, canteen half/plate, small skillet (optional), pocket knife and a ramrod, for example.

Perhaps the greatest impediment to successfully attending such an event is a belief that you (the generic "you") won't fit in. I suffered a lot of doubts the first time I went to an "upscale" mainstream event, as well as my one trip (so far) to a campaigner event. In both cases, the anxiety was unfounded, and I was able to function quite well. The transition from "samo-samo" to "upscale" is not that great.

As for having the two events closely scheduled, I'm not seeing that as a great problem. In my case, I wouldn't be attending the other anyway this year, and have been looking forward to Anderburg since it was first announced as a possiblility. For others, it's a choice between the known quality of the usual event and the promised quality of the other. To play Devil's Advocate: Even if Andersburg fails to meet its (my) expectations, can it be any worse than what is expected from the other event?

bill watson
07-27-2007, 06:55 AM
There you go again, Bernie, being logical and rational. Darned radical!

Jubilo
07-27-2007, 07:22 AM
Dear Sir ,
I think this is a brilliant scenario ; perhaps you should be an advisor to the event .
all for the old flag ,
David Corbett

Frenchie
07-27-2007, 07:35 AM
There you go again, Bernie, being logical and rational. Darned radical!

Not to mention calm, clear and cogent. I don't know about you, but sometimes it gets on my nerves. :-P

plankmaker
07-27-2007, 08:46 AM
The action in the wheatfield was done piecemeal with brigades, so I think it would match the numbers being talked about. The Irish Brigade went in before the 4th Brigade, 1st Division, 2nd Corps and retreated through them as they advanced (their smoothbores, reportedly had staggered the Cornfed at short range before they were overwhelmed by numbers). The 53rd PVI went into the action with 135 men and suffered 79 casualties.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

From the Official Reports - Lt. Col. Richards McMichael

No. 95. -- Reports of Lieut. Col. Richards McMichael, Fifty-third Pennsylvania Infantry.

NEAR SANDY HOOK, MD., July 17, 1863.

SIR: I have the honor to transmit the following report of the part taken by my command in the late action near Gettysburg, Pa.:

My regimant arrived on the field about 8 a.m. July 2, and was marched to a position in the rear of the left center of the battle-line, where we remained for several hours.

Between the hours of 3 and 4 p.m., in accordance with the orders of Colonel Brooke, commanding brigade, I moved by the left flank tp the left, and formed line of battle on the edge of a wood, with the Sixty-fourth New York on my right and the Twenty-seventh Connecticut Volunteers on the left. All this time we were exposed to a severe shelling from the enemy's batteries. My command was then moved forward in order of battle through a wheat-field, about the center of which we commenced firing, continuing for fifteen minutes or more, when orders were received from Colonel Brooke to fix bayonets.

This was done, and, in connection with the brigade, we charged upon the enemy, driving him before us, capturing some prisoners, and finally carrying the crest of the hill. This position was held for a short time, when it was discovered that the enemy was crowding upon our flanks. The brigade, including my command, was ordered by Colonel Brooks to fall back. This was done successsfully through a heavy fire from the enemy's infantry and artillery.

About 8 p.m. I marched to a position near the one I held just before the action and bivouacked during the night.

During the morning of the 3d, my command was engaged in throwing up earthworks.

In the afternoon, we were under a severe artillery fire for several hours, but there were no casulaties.

The loss in my command is proportionally lrge, the casualties nearly all occurring in the hotly contested engagement in the wheat-field.

All my officers and men did their duty nobly and well.

I herewith forward you a list of casulaties. (*)

I have the honor to be, sir, respectfully, your obedient servant,

R. McMICHAEL,

Lieut. Col., Comdg. Fifty-third Pennsylvania Volunteers

Lieut. CHARLES P. HATCH

Actg. Asst. Adjt. Gen., Fourth Brigade

----

HDQRS. FIFTY-THIRD PENNSYLVANIA VOLUNTEERS,

August 3, 1863.

SIR: As required by circular from brigade headquarters of this date, I have the honor to transmit the following report of the operations of my command at the battle of Gettysburg:

I arrived on the field with my command about 8 a.m. on July 2, and was marched to a position in the rear of the left center of the line.

Remaining here about an hour, I marched with the remainder of the brigade to a position on the front, where I remained until 3 p.m., when the engagement opened. From 3 to 5 p.m. we were under severe shelling fire, at which hour, in compliance with the orders of Colonel Brooke, commanding brigade, I moved with the brigade by the left flank across a field, finally forming line of battle, with a grain-field in the front.

The Sixty-fourth New York Volunteers was on my right and the Twenty-seventh Connectucut Volunteers on my left. I then, as ordered by Colonel Brooke, in conjunction with the brigade moved forward in line of battle. When midway in the grain-field, firing commenced, lasting about fifteen, minutes, when, in accordance with orders from Colonel Brooke, bayonets were fixed, and I charged upon the enemy, driving him from his strong position on the crest of the hill in our front. The position was held about 15 minutes, when it was discovered that the enemy in force was getting in the flank and rear; then I fell back, in accordance with orders from Colonel Brooke.

During the night of the 2d, my regiment was engaged in constructing breastworks.

On the 3d, my command lay behind the intrenchments under a heavy artillery fire.

My command went into action with 15 officers and 120 enlisted men.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

R. McMICHAEL

Lieutenant-Colonel, Commanding Regimant.

Lieut. CHARLES P. HATCH,

Acting Assistant Adjutant-General

MDRebCAv
07-27-2007, 09:08 AM
that the first day's actions would be a great jumping off point.

If you could get enough of them it would give the Cavalry a chance to do something they really never get to portray, an extended holding action.

On the Union side the infantry would get a chance to come up straight from the march and replace the cavalry on the MLR (a difficult manuver).

On the Confederate side they'd have to shake out units as they arrived, get them into action and then coordinate a flanking attack.

Everybody would have lots to do.




Our unit never does G'burg because most of the battles portrayed would not involve cavalry--mounted nor dismounted--BUT, if day 1 is done, I might be able to talk them into buying blue jackets and falling in as dismounted with Buford's boys. Not all of my guys have Sharps carbines, though...what would be acceptable for this scenario...Sharps, Smith, JP Murray, 3-banders?

plankmaker
07-27-2007, 10:29 AM
Some friends who haven't reenacted for a few years have contacted me about getting together again for this event. Even some old crippled up folks are thinking about it. I have a feeling there are more types like this than you think. Many became disillusioned when attending events that seemed to have the attitude "everyone can play." While not having perfect kits, many do their best and don't really care to have Grizzly Adams, Pancho, or Mingo in the ranks with them or against them. I actually put on my uniform last weekend and it actually looks baggy. I'm considering attending if nothing else but to provide my world famous gray coffee and stew.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

Memphis
07-27-2007, 10:34 AM
Mark, are you planning to fall in with any particular group? I may be able to convince my dad to come along to this one, and he doesn't get around too well either. He does drive like a bat out of **** and can typically beat the mapquest times.

plankmaker
07-27-2007, 10:43 AM
A bunch of us (so far about 20 or so) that were in the same company for the 135th have been emailing back and forth (thus the interest in the 53rd PVI). Based on converstaions so far, there may be a few more of the older, and not so older, former members getting together for one last hurrah.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

Chip
07-27-2007, 11:53 AM
If some portion of Pickett's charge was to be included, could this be considered?:

Source: http://www.civilwarhome.com/hallgettysburg.htm


Reports of Col. Norman J. Hall, Seventh Michigan Infantry, commanding Third Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

HDQRS. THIRD BRIG., SECOND DIV.. SECOND CORPS,
Pleasant Valley, Md., July 17, 1863.

Capt. A. H. EMBLER,
Actg. Asst. Adjt. Gen., Second Div., Second Corps.

[I]CAPTAIN: I have the honor to submit the following report of the operations of the brigade under my command in the recent engagements near Gettysburg, Pa.:
.

...No serious attempt was again made by the enemy on the 2d against the position of the Second Corps. During the night the line was strengthened as much as possible with rails, stones, and earth thrown up with sticks and boards, no tools being obtainable.
Nothing more than occasional skirmishing occurred until the afternoon of the 3d. At 1 o'clock the enemy opened with artillery upon that portion of the line between the cemetery and the right of the Fifth Corps, several hundred yards from Round Top. The number of pieces which concentrated their fire upon this line is said to have been about one hundred and fifty. The object was evidently to destroy our batteries and drive the infantry from the slight crest which marked the line of battle, while the concentration of fire upon the hill occupied by the Second and the right of the Third Brigades indicated where the real attack was to be made. The experience of the terrible grandeur of that rain of missiles and that chaos of strange and terror-spreading sounds, unexampled, perhaps, in history, must ever remain undescribed, but can never be forgotten by those who survived it.

...Knowing that the enemy's infantry would attack soon, I sent Lieutenant [William R.] Driver, acting assistant adjutant-general, to the Artillery Reserve for batteries, with orders to conduct them to the crest, if they were granted, with all possible speed. He arrived with one, which, though too late for service in arresting the advance of the enemy, yet had the opportunity to do him much damage.
At 3 o'clock exactly the fire of the enemy slackened, and his first line of battle advanced from the woods in front in beautiful order. About 100 yards in rear came a second line, and opposite the main point of attack was what appeared to be a column of battalions.




...The perfect order and steady but rapid advance of the enemy called forth praise from our troops, but gave their line an appearance of being fearfully irresistible. My line was single, the only support (the Seventy-second Pennsylvania Volunteers) having been called away by General Webb before the action had fairly commenced. There was a disposition in the men to reserve their fire for close quarters, but when I observed the movement the enemy was endeavoring to execute, I caused the Seventh Michigan and Twentieth Massachusetts Volunteers to open fire at about 200 yards. The deadly aim of the former regiment was attested by the line of slain within its range. This had a great effect upon the result, for it caused the enemy to move rapidly at one point and consequently to crowd in front--being occasioned at the point where his column was forming, he did not recover from this disorder. The remainder of our line reserved its fire until within 100 yards, some regiments waiting even until but 50 paces intervened between them and the enemy.
There was but a moment of doubtful contest in front of the position of this brigade. The enemy halted to deliver his fire, wavered, and fled, while the line of the fallen perfectly marked the limit of his advance. The troops were pouring into the ranks of the fleeing enemy that rapid and accurate fire, the delivery of which victorious lines always so much enjoy, when I saw that a portion of the line of General Webb on my right had given way, and many men were making to the rear as fast as possible, while the enemy was pouring over the rails that had been a slight cover for the troops.
Having gained this apparent advantage, the enemy seemed to turn again and re-engage my whole line. Going to the left, I found two regiments that could be spared from some command there, and endeavored to move them by the right flank to the break, but, coming under a warm fire, they crowded to the slight cover of the rail fence, mixing with the troops already there. Finding it impossible to draw them out and reform, and seeing no unengaged troops within reach, I was forced to order my own brigade back from the line, and move it by the flank under a heavy fire. The enemy was rapidly gaining a foothold; organization was mostly lost; in the confusion commands were useless, while a disposition on the part of the men to fall back apace or two each time to lead, gave the line a retiring direction. With the officers of my staff and a few others, who seemed to comprehend what was required, the head of the line, still slowly moving by the flank, was crowded closer to the enemy and the men obliged to load in their places. I did not see any man of my command who appeared disposed to run away, but the confusion first caused by the two regiments above spoken of so destroyed the formation in two ranks that in some places the line was several files deep...
During this time, the Fifteenth Massachusetts Volunteers, First Minnesota, and Nineteenth Maine Volunteers, from the First Brigade of this division, had joined the line, and are entitled to a full share in the credit of the final repulse.
The line remained in this way for about ten minutes, rather giving way than advancing, when, by a simultaneous effort upon the part of all the officers I could instruct, aided by the general advance of many of the colors, the line closed with the enemy, and, after a few minutes of desperate, often hand-to-hand fighting, the crowd--for such had become that part of the enemy's column that had passed the fence---threw down their arms and were taken prisoners of war, while the remainder broke and fled in great disorder. The Second Brigade had again joined the right of my line, which now occupied the position originally held by that command...
.
...Twenty battle-flags were captured in a space of 100 yards square. Several colors were stolen or taken with violence by officers of high rank from brave soldiers who had rushed forward and honestly captured them from the enemy, and were probably turned in as taken by commands which were not within 100 yards of the point of attack. Death is too light a punishment for such a dastardly offense.
To the efforts of a few officers and the courage and good discipline of the men is due the great result of the final repulse of the enemy. Conspicuous acts of individual bravery were unusually frequent. Colors were captured with clubbed muskets, and many men of both our own and the enemy had their clothes blown off for a large space around their wounds by the close discharge.
Between 1,500 and 2,000 prisoners were captured at the point of attack, where the First, Second, and Third Brigades were equally present. Piles of dead and thousands of wounded upon both sides attested the desperation of assailants and defenders.
The services of many officers of my command would, under ordinary circumstances, claim particular notice and reward, but so great was the necessity for every possible exertion that all who saw their duty I believe did it, forgetting all question of danger.
... Lieutenant-Colonel Steele, of the Seventh Michigan Volunteer, behaved most gallantly, and was killed in the line of his regiment, urging men forward. Every regimental commander did his whole duty nobly. Three of the 5 were killed or have since died of their wounds, viz: Colonel Revere, of the Twentieth Massachusetts Volunteers; Lieutenant-Colonel Thoman, Fifty-ninth New York Volunteers, and Lieutenant-Colonel Steele, Seventh Michigan Volunteers. Lieutenant-Colonel Macy, Twentieth Massachusetts; Lieutenant-Colonel Wass and Major Rice, Nineteenth Massachusetts Volunteers, were severely wounded. ...
...Captains [S. Newell] Smith and[George W.] Leach and Lieutenant [William E.] Barrows, of my staff, were most conspicuous in closing the ranks, maintaining the lines, and pressing them against the enemy, while Lieutenant Driver, acting assistant adjutant-general, twice ran the gauntlet of the terrific artillery fire in bringing fresh artillery...

In claiming for my brigade and a few other troops the turning point of the battle of July 3, I do not forget how liable inferior commanders are to regard only what takes place in their own front, or how extended a view it must require to judge of the relative importance of different points of the line of battle. The decision of the rebel commander was upon that point; the concentration of artillery fire was upon that point; the din of battle developed in a column of attack upon that point; the greatest effort and greatest carnage was at that point; and the victory was at that point...

Very respectfully,
NORMAN J. HALL,
Colonel, Commanding Brigade.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.


Might prove to incredibly confusing and would take some prep, to pull off the "loss of organization" but would be interesting to see and be part of.

Sam Lowe
Botsford Mess

Memphis
07-27-2007, 11:58 AM
Can't have Gettysburg without Pickett's Charge (apologies to all Tar Heels), but wouldn't it be so much fun to do Barksdale's Charge instead? Oh, the glory of it all! What might have been.

RJSamp
07-27-2007, 12:29 PM
Can't have Gettysburg without Pickett's Charge (apologies to all Tar Heels), but wouldn't it be so much fun to do Barksdale's Charge instead? Oh, the glory of it all! What might have been.

We know what might have been Rog?! They gave it their all and a couple of well manned batteries finally stopped the 21st MS.....and the other regiments slowly lost cohesion and men whilst smashing through the Peach Orchard and breaking any line that Graham, Humphrey, Brewster, et al remnants could set up.

Agree that a Trostle Farm scenario.....Peach Orchard Salient.....Klingle Farm..... would be great. And we've recently started to do the NY State retreat (plant your Colors 50 yards behind the battle line, Sound to the Color and fall back and reform on the Colors....volley a few times....and repeat).

TimKindred
07-27-2007, 01:48 PM
RJ,

Indeed. The 3rd Maine lost 128 out of 210 engaged and most of those in the Peach Orchard. They took a volley from one of Barksdale's Mississippi regiment while attempting to change front to face them (the 3rd had been posted with it's right flank on the pike, it was literally at the point of the samlient), that killed or wounded everyman of the colour guard and colour company. In the ensuing melee, no one noticed the colors go down.

Only later that night, when the remaining survivors mustered for roll call, did they realise the loss of both the guard, company, and the colours.

Interestingly enough, to this day, there is no record of what happened to the 3rd Maine's colours after they were lost. No one mentions them anywhere as being recovered, found, captured, etc. It remains a true mystery.

Respects,

flattop32355
07-27-2007, 02:55 PM
Not to mention calm, clear and cogent. I don't know about you, but sometimes it gets on my nerves. :-P

Sorry, guys. I'll try to be more badder. ;)

RJSamp
07-27-2007, 03:02 PM
RJ,

Indeed. The 3rd Maine lost 128 out of 210 engaged and most of those in the Peach Orchard. They took a volley from one of Barksdale's Mississippi regiment while attempting to change front to face them (the 3rd had been posted with it's right flank on the pike, it was literally at the point of the samlient), that killed or wounded everyman of the colour guard and colour company. In the ensuing melee, no one noticed the colors go down.


Respects,

Wasn't that a Maine unit (the 4th?) that was on the Picket Line of the III Corps.....and they wore Frock Coats and are in the Sullivan picture "A Harvest of Death" that was initially id'd as the Dead of the (24th Michigan)/or Iron Brigade?

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/O/osullivan/osullivan_gettysburg.html

My cousins are descended from Holman Melcher (the officer who gave the command for the 20th Maine's left wing to charge)

If we do a III Corps Scenario I've got the perfect candidate for a Gustave Schurmann impression, and the G Cavalry Trumpet he used (see p. 241 Echoes of Glory US, top).

Parault
07-27-2007, 08:22 PM
Well,

You fellows might actually be portraying the 3rd Arkansas, but historically, the entire brigade got mixed together about the time they got to Plum Run.

John Polley and Val Giles both recount how the regiments began to get squeezed together, then overlapped, and finally ended up pretty much all mingled together with fellows from different companies and regiments side by side, or in small groups.

Don't get me wrong here. I am NOT putting down your unit or you. But historically, that fight was one of the worst the Texas Brigade ever got into, and it ended up a true soldier's fight, both sides under cover and no way to really get out of there until after dark fell.

Like I posted earlier, it would be neat to recreate a good portion of the 2nd day's fight in real time.

Respects,
I understand Mr. Kindred. No hard feelings taken. Facts are facts. They only had 500 of the 3rd take the field anyway.

Parault
07-28-2007, 07:23 AM
Dear Mr. Kindred

I have to disagree with your statement about the 3rd on the 2nd day of battle at Gettysburg. The 3rd and the 1st Texas stepped off at 4:00 pm along
with the rest of the Texas Brigade. Not to long before they hit the Rose Woods the 4th and 5th Texas were order to veer right toward Big Round Top.

They just to the right of Devils Den. The 1st Texas and the 3rd Arkansas went through the Rose Woods. Driving the Federals out off the Rose Woods the
1st Texas and the 3rd Arkansas hit the federals at Devils Den. Here they slammed into the 20 Indiana, 86 New York, and 124 New York. The 3rd veered
to the right of Devils Den to what is Houck's Ridge. This ridge is just north of Devils Den. Here they drove back part of 86th and all of the 20th Indiana.
Here the two sides meet in a fierce hand to hand fight. After the Federals fled the 3rd Captured 3 Artillery pieces of Smith's Battery.

The 3rd regrouped on Houck's Ridge to make another advance. While doing this the 2nd US Sharpshooters meet up with the 3rd just the other side of
Houck's Ridge. Here another fierce fight broke out. This fight lasted until dark. The 3rd was order to pull back to the ridge. They were not engaged on
the 3rd day. During this days action. the 3rd Arkansas suffered 41 killed, 141 wounded out of 480 men. This was 38% of their regiment. They suffered
the 2nd highest in Robertson's Brigade. They were not mixed or scattered with anyone else around Plum Run.

Col Van Manning also suffered a severe wound that day. He received shrapnel in the face and had to relieve himself of command, giving it to Lt.Col Taylor

Saying all of that to say this, they knew right where they were at according to the reports.

According to the book "Hood's Texas Brigade" written by J.B. Polly, "Judging by its losses which are usually held true criteria of the gallantry of a
regiment and the dangers it faced, the 3rd Arkansas bore the brunt of the Battle of Gettysburg".

We think that J.B Polly was referring to the Texas Brigade as a whole.



.

Parault
07-28-2007, 07:24 AM
Mr. Polly was a private in the 4th Texas. In his book Col. Robertson who led the Texas Brigade that day. Stated that the 4th and 5th got seperated from the 1st and 3rd. When the Col. went to go find the 1st and 3rd to bring them back to the 4th and 5th he could not because they were already in a heated contest with the federals.

Upon leaving Lt. Col. Works in charge he went back to the 4th and 5th Texas. Upon arriving he found out that some how these two companies had ended up in
the center of General Law's Brigade and could not be pulled out to go help support the 1st and 3rd for it would compromise the line. He then asked General Law to look after them and went back to the 1st and 3rd.

Both of these posts were given to me by my friend and the Capt of our unit. He knows the history of the 3rd Ark. very well. He tried to place these on the site last night, but he just got on this site and hasn't got his approval through the moderator yet.

Thanks Mr. kindred for making me and Kurtis do some reasearch.

Huck Finn
07-29-2007, 03:51 PM
Have different units do two of the three scenarios, similar to how the actual battles developed. The various units, correctly identified, could be on the move, in reserve, etc.

Chris, the interest expressed here indicates the ability to take things to the next level on what all would consider to be a large scale. I must agree with Doc, having the events so close together will be meaningless. You only loss, if you could call it that, would be if Gen. Maupin is commanding the farb event, taking the Longsteet's Corps with him. There are a few progressive units that could probably fit the bill as they are a staple at McDowell and other SCA events. Maybe they would can the event, even if Maupin was commanding, to go to a better event.

You boo birds will see.

indguard
07-29-2007, 06:49 PM
Chris, the interest expressed here indicates the ability to take things to the next level

Boy, I wonder if somewhere around 10 favorable comments on a web message board could make you feel THAT is true!? I man, seriously. You have a few guys here saying how great the idea is and suddenly you explode that in your mind to represent thousands of people??? That seems like a leap. How do you know if he followed thru with the event it wouldn't just be these ten guys from the message board showing up and no one else?


Maybe they would can the event, even if Maupin was commanding, to go to a better event.


Do you really think so?

I find units are pretty loyal to their generals! I would doubt Maupin's progressive units would split away and go somewhere else the dame day their general is leading a national event. They'll more likely go where their general goes... that would be the probable assumption.

Some awfully wild assumptions you make there, Mr. Huck Finn.

I just find the plans for this idea are starting on the wrong foot.

The "we are going to plan an event on your weekend to stick a finger in your eye" idea is not the best basis t start an event, is it? Especially if you want more than just your own cheering section to show up!

I still say it would be better to plan it further in advance so that everyone knows that it is coming off and can plan better.

Huck Finn
07-29-2007, 07:23 PM
As I see things, the glass is more than half full. It is unclear why you are such a "doom and gloom" kind of guy. While my optimism may be wishful thinking, yours seems to be as well. Please continue on.:-P

p.s. - Seems like more than ten positive posts to me.

flattop32355
07-29-2007, 08:00 PM
I still say it would be better to plan it further in advance so that everyone knows that it is coming off and can plan better.

If memory serves, this project has been in the works for better than a year, with another year to go before it happens. We're just now hearing of it because it's reached that stage to inform the hobby.

As with any event, the proof will be in the execution. I'm not going to gush about this one until it's over and has earned it. By the same token, I have no problem stating that, given a choice of which Gburg event I'll be attending, it will be that of Mr. Anders.

You, along with every other reenactor, may choose to attend this one, the other one, or neither one. You can even debate whether Andersburg is a good idea or not.

Given the record of the other event, I think it's a good idea that has a better than reasonable chance of meeting my expectations and, more importantly, my desires, for a Gburg event. I'm guessing (which is all I can do at this point in time) that enough others will feel the same way and will register to make it a viable event.

I'll let you know in about 11 months if it worked out.

indguard
07-29-2007, 09:16 PM
Given the record of the other event, I think it's a good idea that has a better than reasonable chance of meeting my expectations and, more importantly, my desires, for a Gburg event. I'm guessing (which is all I can do at this point in time) that enough others will feel the same way and will register to make it a viable event.

I, for one, certainly wish you all luck and a good event.

sgt lamb
07-29-2007, 09:33 PM
not that it matters to the decussion at hand, but General Maupin's no longer commanding Longstreet' corps Dan Shoemake is now the commander

CWClark
07-30-2007, 04:10 AM
Chris,
Have you already contacted the main players to come out and look at the land? The ANV has their convention in November. It would be nice if you could speak to the organization and have some information in place.
Of course, this goes for the other organizations as well.

Charles

Anders
07-30-2007, 11:42 AM
Charles,

The ground is familiar, will be conducting tours for those who request it after September Storm. Snyder, Pridgeon and others will be doing site walk-throughs for the CS boys in a bit.

However I doubt the event will be one to accommodate the entire ANV, as with other events like September Storm, participation is limited, and I know the ANV can put 1000 on the field by themselves. As well as the fact , and I am just being honest here, the event will have the same level rules as September Storm, and is not an "inclusive" style event. For many major organizations to attend the need to get all their membership accepted, and that will not happen, as many still allow hordes of specialty impressions that history will not let us tolerate. Just being upfront and honest, truly.

The Army of the Tennessee ( formally the 1st CD) has been invited as well as the First Federal Division ( Federal) and of course those who are major players at September Storm will be there too (CMF, CVG, PSL, SWB, CL, PB, etc..), so that might not lend to having the entire ANV there honestly. Portions thereof of course, just like at past events, but we will be allotting slots to organizations once we get off the ground.

We have a ways to go prior to setting this one up in terms of OOB, but it looks like each force will have a split command with half under Eastern Commanders and half under Western Commanders. At least that is my goal, with each side limited to 2000 combatants.

We have hit the 800 allowed preregistered for September and have now cut off CS registration. This will probably put 675 on the field to face the almost 1200 preregistered Federals. Good numbers, and good force ratios. For AHT we would enforce force ratios as well.

More information will be along shortly, no worries, but right now I am focusing on September.

Hope all is well,

Pards,

JEBeedle
07-30-2007, 03:37 PM
At least that is my goal, with each side limited to 2000 combatants.

Thank God.

Fifer37thNC
08-07-2007, 06:19 PM
I think there will be way more than 4,000 specialy this will probably be one of the biggest it's the 145th. In 2003 for the 140th there was 15,000 reenactors. Biggest reenactment I went to. My unit the 37th NC is going as well. We go every 3-5 years to Gettysburg inbetween we do Living History's just a good excuse to go to G-burg ;) But we are invited every time by the NPS.

Hoosiertrooper
08-07-2007, 07:36 PM
I think there will be way more than 4,000 specialy this will probably be one of the biggest it's the 145th. In 2003 for the 140th there was 15,000 reenactors. Biggest reenactment I went to. My unit the 37th NC is going as well. We go every 3-5 years to Gettysburg inbetween we do Living History's just a good excuse to go to G-burg ;) But we are invited every time by the NPS.


JD:

Reread Chris' post the event is LIMITED to 4,000. You ain't gonna see 15,000 no way, no how.

Fifer37thNC
08-08-2007, 01:32 PM
Why are they limiting it to 4,000? That wont be enough to do Pickets Charge?

tompritchett
08-08-2007, 02:50 PM
Why are they limiting it to 4,000?

As was discussed very early in the thread - 1) space considerations (there is only so many men you can put in a given space and have the evolution of the battle look realistic) and 2) maintain a ratio of union to confederate reenactors that is in the realm of the historical force ratios.

bill watson
08-08-2007, 02:55 PM
JD, if the 4000 comes off this time, maybe the 150th anniversary event can be bigger. Keep in mind this is reenactors organizing it and fronting the costs, not venture capitalists looking to make a killing. The emphasis is on a higher quality experience for everyone than you've seen at the big events in the past where the main goal was huge numbers of people to generate huge revenue.

TimKindred
08-08-2007, 03:26 PM
Why are they limiting it to 4,000? That wont be enough to do Pickets Charge?


Comrade,

Why worry about that? There were many more parts to this battle than that one event. In fact, it has always occurred to me that, regardless of the courage involved, reenacting it was pretty lame. Basically it's a "line up here, now move to there. You lot, start shooting when they reach this spot".

There are so many other parts of that battle which are never recreated, or even spoken of, and that's a real shame. Perhaps this even will concentrate on the lesser known or reenacted portions of the three-day's battle. If so, then I suspect there will be plenty of opportunities for a much better scale effort than just the "some old" you see each summer at the local affair.

Respects,

Claude Sinclair
08-08-2007, 04:11 PM
Why are they limiting it to 4,000? That wont be enough to do Pickets Charge?

I think he is talking about the other Gettysburg. The 15,000 reenactors gave that away.

Claude Sinclair

reb4lee
08-08-2007, 05:16 PM
There are so many other parts of that battle which are never recreated, or even spoken of, and that's a real shame. Perhaps this even will concentrate on the lesser known or reenacted portions of the three-day's battle. If so, then I suspect there will be plenty of opportunities for a mucg better scale effort than just the "some old" you see each summer at the local affair.

Respects,
I agree with this. There were more part's of the battle that are not recreated.(I have never been to the reenactment so I may be wrong). Not sure but I would like to see the wheatfield recreated.

flattop32355
08-08-2007, 08:32 PM
If you took a reasonably good number of reenactors, you could do an entire week's worth (if not longer) of scenarios from the battle at G'burg. Segments of actions taken on different parts of the field, each of which contributed to the culminating third day, are there for the simulating from days one and two: Ewell vs. XI Corps, Green's defence of Culps Hill, A.P. Hill vs. I Corps and Cav, Longstreet vs. Sickles, etc.

So much worthy of reenacting, so little time!

RJSamp
08-09-2007, 11:24 AM
If you took a reasonably good number of reenactors, you could do an entire week's worth (if not longer) of scenarios from the battle at G'burg. Segments of actions taken on different parts of the field, each of which contributed to the culminating third day, are there for the simulating from days one and two: Ewell vs. XI Corps, Green's defence of Culps Hill, A.P. Hill vs. I Corps and Cav, Longstreet vs. Sickles, etc.

So much worthy of reenacting, so little time!

that's basically what the cavalry did at G135.....we did two scenarios on Tuesday, two on Thursday....then I joined my infantry unit.....and we had one on Friday (and Brigade Drill in the AM), 2 (or 3, Culp's Hill late in the day) on Saturday, and 1 on Sunday.

For the 1st Day scenario on Saturday AM I was with the cavalry for the first hour or so.....then joined up with my infantry unit for the rest of the battle....

This time around I'm thinking about coming to GBurg / area for two weeks.....attending both events....marching with Doug Dobbs a little bit.....some research up at Carlisle, etc. I'd love to try to ford the Potomac somewhere....

RedkepiWA
08-24-2007, 02:10 PM
I signed up , but did not make the 2003 event but if I remember right, there was 18,000 reenactors signed up. Is that number correct. Shoot, in California we get 1,000 reenactors to go to Fresno, so 4,000 for G-burg seems small.

RJSamp
08-24-2007, 10:54 PM
I signed up , but did not make the 2003 event but if I remember right, there was 18,000 reenactors signed up. Is that number correct. Shoot, in California we get 1,000 reenactors to go to Fresno, so 4,000 for G-burg seems small.

We heard 18,000 signed up for the July event.....and many couldn't reschedule their vacations for August.

For the event that this thread is talking about....4,000 reenactors is their limit....That's all the space they have .....and all the logistics, security, health/sanitation, etc. that they want to 'handle'. There's going to be another GBurg event on the following weekend that may have A LOT of reenactors in attendance....

Memphis
08-25-2007, 05:54 AM
So, which Gettysburg event will receive the coveted RJ Samp seal of approval? ;)

flattop32355
08-25-2007, 05:16 PM
The one without front porches and with movement by the bugle.

captdougofky
08-25-2007, 06:26 PM
So, which Gettysburg event will receive the coveted RJ Samp seal of approval? ;)

Make sure your uniform is up to par, we don't care what you eat. Kind words not on the menu.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

tompritchett
08-25-2007, 10:49 PM
Make sure your uniform is up to par, we don't care what you eat. Kind words not on the menu.

Moderator Hat: Careful Doug. Methinks you may be trying to start another "us" vs. "them" fight. I hope that I am mistaken.

CUPP
10-19-2007, 11:32 PM
This sound exciting... Wish I could have made September storm event but unfortunatly im stuck overseas but im going to take leavefor this one. The only bad thing is that im going to have to find someone to fall in with for this one. Once things get rolling I guess I will start asking for help... Im sure that 4,000 will not be a hard number to get to espically sense the firts federal division and all are coming

Edward Cupp

vamick
10-22-2007, 11:56 AM
So far this has been an infantry fest, so Chris ...land permitting how many slots for artillery do you foresee? is there room for horse artillery to move? how many acres are we talking about??

troutdpman
11-06-2007, 11:41 PM
I would like to see a reenactment of Elon Farnsworth's futile charge on the extreme left at the Slyder farm........I guess its out of the question for a number of reasons , but it sure would be neat to watch horse riders try to act out getting caught in the deadly arena . I used to live near Gettysburg and know the battlefield well . The wheatfield re-creation sounds good . I like it 'cause there ain't too many monuments around that part of the battlefield .Its hard to get anyone except us " interested laymen " to have any extended imagination towards anything beyond the Pickets charge reenactment........I think its a great event and now that I don't live around there anymore ,I don't take for granted what happened there in 1863 .Thanks for keeping a great spirit alive ......Dave

Dunn Browne
11-07-2007, 10:44 AM
The wheatfield re-creation sounds good . I like it 'cause there ain't too many monuments around that part of the battlefield . ......Dave

The Wheatfield along with Picket's Charge, Little Round Top, and the 11th Corps skedaddle have been done to death. I would like to see some of the 2nd day's action AOP 2nd Corps 3rd Div. on Cemetery Ridge. McPherson's Woods on the 1st day and any of the Culp's Hill action.

Anders
11-07-2007, 03:21 PM
Few quick notes-

Battlefield is set to be approx 1600 yards long x 580 yards wide (at its narrowest point). At times it expands to 800 yards wide.

Confirmed through laser range finders.


There will be approx 8 CS gun slots and 12 US gun slots. We plan to use them correctly, not just littered about the field creating safety issues.

We are looking at 40-50 Mounted US and the same Amoutn CS- once again used correctly and not a dance of the saber fairies or hanging out shooting pistols at infantry.

So it is clear we need quality combined arms for both sides.

We follow history, and base our actions on that- seems there is a huge disconect at most events between history and the hobby, like folks feel history has little to do with their hobby. I don't know about you, but that seems a bit off to me.

As to scenarios-

Looking at-

Long first day running fight, dusk assualt on Cemetary Hill, Peach Orchard through the Wheatfield and the Counterattack of the 1st MN.

Working on more details.


Busy as always-

captdougofky
11-08-2007, 06:18 AM
This will be a mainstream event....just one based on history and with some standards. Why play in the minors when the big leagues are calling?

Tim...I like your idea.

Kent Dorr
"Devils Own Mess"

Kent

You all just hurt yourself by running the other event down. Big Leagues, weather, in case it rains has been mention by others. If its that good let it stand on its own merit. 8 CS and 12 US cannons. Powder rations? Big Leagues always pay more.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

OVI
11-08-2007, 07:15 AM
Kent

You all just hurt yourself by running the other event down. Big Leagues, weather, in case it rains has been mention by others. If its that good let it stand on its own merit. 8 CS and 12 US cannons. Powder rations? Big Leagues always pay more.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

Sorry Doug....I spent many years in advertising and its perfectly acceptable to present any differences between products. Truth in advertising, you know.

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

captdougofky
11-08-2007, 08:41 AM
Sorry Doug....I spent many years in advertising and its perfectly acceptable to present any differences between products. Truth in advertising, you know.

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

Kent

Negative Ads, sometimes turns people off. I'm sure you know more than I do about that. A lot of fence sitters read what we write here. In this case it may be hurting your cause. I'm sure you all will have a great event. There is enough negative things in daily life, our hobby should not be one of them.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

Anders
11-08-2007, 10:06 AM
Doug,

Point taken. And I will say this- There are many participants that chose not to meet the rules and regulations of At High Tide. Just like there were many who did not want to meet those expectations at September Storm. And in both cases we are glad there were/are alternative events we can refer them to. Events that allow them to reenact at thier comfort level.

Just like SS, I will be referring folks to the alternative event, if they chose not to meet the expectations of AHT.

So that event serves the hobby as a whole very well, and I am personally glad it is happening.

Pards,

7thNJcoA
11-08-2007, 10:30 AM
I saw you mention peach orchard and now I am smiling! Our unit had its numbers decimated in the Orchard and I have been dieing to honor those men by reenacting that fight. I know alot of guys in my unit say if the 145th isnt half of what he 135th was they arent coming back. Myself I am wondering how the 150th is going to be thats a big aniversary year..... I am always thinking far ahead lol Im already planning events for 2009!

Memphis
11-08-2007, 06:10 PM
Does this event have all of the necessary permits and a bonafide green light to proceed from the local jurisdiction(s) yet?

bill watson
11-08-2007, 07:13 PM
"I saw you mention peach orchard and now I am smiling! Our unit had its numbers decimated in the Orchard and I have been dieing to honor those men by reenacting that fight."

My ggf was in "your" unit and wounded in support of the battery. Company D. I'm also thinking this is a very doable set of scenarios.

Anders
11-08-2007, 09:48 PM
Now that is the next set of rumors we have been fighting. The truth is to obtain such a permit in Freedom township, it takes about 3 months worth of work. We ahve been activily pursuing it, and have the preliminary drafts submitted. The next step in the process is to finalize the plat and submit final details as requested formt he preliminary draft.

It seems at some point some events in this township really raked the community over the coals, and they therefore passed this level of requirements to keep it from happening again.

Pards,

Memphis
11-09-2007, 04:41 PM
Thank you for a prompt and honest response to the permit question.

troutdpman
11-14-2007, 01:37 AM
Kent

Negative Ads, sometimes turns people off. I'm sure you know more than I do about that. A lot of fence sitters read what we write here. In this case it may be hurting your cause. I'm sure you all will have a great event. There is enough negative things in daily life, our hobby should not be one of them.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky
I agree, A lot of us are information sponges as well as fence sitters and need fed regularly . We like good food . All nationalities worldwide check out our battlefields . Lets put on a good show ! ............... D . Troutman .... My great grandfather fought his last battle in Gettysburg . He survived from a miniball through the throat . 18th pennsylvania cav. near plum run 3rd day.We still have his Sharps Carbine

RJSamp
11-14-2007, 10:55 AM
I agree, A lot of us are information sponges as well as fence sitters and need fed regularly . We like good food . All nationalities worldwide check out our battlefields . Lets put on a good show ! ............... D . Troutman .... My great grandfather fought his last battle in Gettysburg . He survived from a miniball through the throat . 18th pennsylvania cav. near plum run 3rd day.We still have his Sharps Carbine

A neat story.....a survivor of Farnsworth's forlorn hope on the Slyder Farm. I'll have to look up the info, but I could have sworn that the 18th PA was issued Smith's Carbine's.....maybe that was at one time and your GGgf was issued or picked up a Sharp's later on....