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Lazarus Driver
06-21-2007, 08:43 PM
I am in need of some Artillery discussion, so I am asking two things.
Has anyone seen an original Gunners haversack with an inside pocket?
If so what is the pocket for?
The ordnance manual does not say anything about an inside pocket.
Lets start talking!

Bill Thomas
Driver
Lazarus battery

Kevin O'Beirne
06-24-2007, 01:38 PM
Artillery is not my strong suit, so please excuse this reply:

Isn't a haversack just a haversack, no matter what branch of service a guy is in? Haversacks were for rations and some mess furniture (plate, flatware, cup), and not much else. That I'm aware of, most haversacks on both sides in the Civil War were issued with a removable inner pocket which was to allow the bag--often used for carrying meat--to be removed for washing.

Memphis
06-24-2007, 03:18 PM
The steemed artillerist may be thinking of a nice piece of leather, as opposed to a painted cloth rations bag.

Hey, what is in those things anyway? They look a little bit like a Civil War version of pizza delivery bag! :D

roundshot
06-24-2007, 03:55 PM
http://www.nps.gov/archive/pete/mahan/gunner'shaversack.html


Bob Williams
1st NC Arty

Lazarus Driver
06-24-2007, 08:36 PM
Mr. O'Beirne, thanks for the reply and the admitted lack of knowledge of the artillery. That being said a Gunners Haversack is a different animal than a common haversack that is carried by all branches. Mr. Williams thanks for posting the link that shows what one looks like. Memphis, The haversack is used to carry the powder and projectile from the limber or caisson to the gun. Now do you want canister with that pizza?
The question still stands: what goes in the pocket?
Bill Thomas
Driver
Lazarus Battery

captdougofky
06-25-2007, 07:14 AM
I have never seen the inside of an original but if I had to guess and this is just a guess, it may have been installed to carry extra friction primers or maybe a extra lanyard in case one ran out of primers or the cord on the lanyard broke. My haversacks for the guns consist of nothing more than a leather bag ( harness ) to carry rounds from the limber to the No.2 position. If you find the right answer please post I'd like to know.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

captdougofky
06-25-2007, 07:56 AM
Can I get an order of bread sticks with the pizza. Hard day of fighting and I'm having hunger pains. Make that a medium pizza the haversack won't hold a large, and a round for the gun at the same time. Rog I'm still waiting on the bottle water to take the gray out of my hair, I had a birthday this month and its not getting any better. When Ponce shows up holler. Smile

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

tompritchett
06-25-2007, 09:11 AM
They look a little bit like a Civil War version of pizza delivery bag!

More like for cheesesteak sandwiches with large orders of fries. :)

TimKindred
06-25-2007, 10:55 AM
Comrades,

I'd be interested in the answer to this question as well. The Ordnance Manual (my edition is the 1862) gives the description of the gunner's haversack, and directions for making one, but does not indicate an internal pocket. The two originals I have seen did NOT have internal pockets of any sorts.

The description may be found on pp131, para 11.

respects,

Memphis
06-28-2007, 04:30 AM
I am glad this is a forum where people can take a joke (a clean joke at that) in the way it was intended, and teach something at the same time. Now, for the record, are curly fries acceptable for early war impressions, or were they just late war?

Pass the horsey sauce, please.

tompritchett
06-28-2007, 06:55 AM
Now, for the record, are curly fries acceptable for early war impressions, or were they just late war?

Neither. You have to go back to steak fries. :) Now the big question though, it which type of ketchup would have been used most frequently with those fries?

Dkjarnagin
06-28-2007, 10:40 AM
Tim,

I know what the 1862 Ordnance manual states but I own and original marked Watervliet Arsenal and it has the pouch on the inside. Since it has the stamp it was made after July 1862 to match congressís requirement that all items be marked with the makerís name. I have also seen an Allegheny Arsenal with the pocket and it would date from the same period. The Ordnance manual was written in 1861 but did not get published until 1862, so the arsenals would have known about it in 1862. There is also a draft of the manual floating around and it is quite a bit different than the published manual.

Fred Gaede would be the one to answer this question best.

Could you get some secret sauce on those fries, or am I going to have to mix ranch dressing and ketchup?

cjdaley
06-28-2007, 11:13 AM
I am in need of some Artillery discussion, so I am asking two things.
Has anyone seen an original Gunners haversack with an inside pocket?
If so what is the pocket for?
The ordnance manual does not say anything about an inside pocket.
Lets start talking!

Bill Thomas
Driver
Lazarus battery

What would the purpose of the inside pouch? The only thing that was to be put inside of the gunners haversack is the powder bag. That's it. The idea was for the #5 cannoneer to safely transport the round from the limber to the front of the piece. By putting it in the gunners haversack you eliminate the chance of sparks or flames from igniting the powder bag (and the #5 cannoneer)

If you had extra friction primers in the haversack (even if they were in a separate pouch) that would negate the purpose of the entire gunners haversack.

I think I have some pretty good sketches of a gunners haversack that I'll try to scan in when I get a chance.

If anyone is looking for a good reproduction of a gunners haversack, I know that http://www.ejtsutler.com/ carries them.

3rd_PA_Artillery
07-01-2007, 06:13 PM
I am in need of some Artillery discussion, so I am asking two things.
Has anyone seen an original Gunners haversack with an inside pocket?
If so what is the pocket for?
The ordnance manual does not say anything about an inside pocket.
Lets start talking!

Bill Thomas
Driver
Lazarus battery

I'm thinking the inside pocket could be for carrying primers to the gun. Now, my mentor in the unit who is also the 1st Sgt., has never instructed me to carry primers to the gun when I serve as a powder monkey, so I don't quite know. As for your first question, I think you should check eBay.

jurgitemvaletem
07-02-2007, 12:54 AM
I don't think one pizza will cover all of us. I'd be willing to chip in halves for a second.

captdougofky
07-02-2007, 08:48 AM
If we go thin crust we should be able to get two in the Haversack. I'll bring a 2liter of coke.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

Cpt Boone
07-03-2007, 04:31 PM
The pouch was most possibly used to carry a couple tools in case of a misfire, such as a gimlet or plies to remove a failed primer. You would never carry primers in the same bag as the round.

My 2 cents.

Jim Mayo
07-03-2007, 05:52 PM
You would never carry primers in the same bag as the round.

Why not? The primers were in a wooden pack wrapped in paper. No more dangerous than being in the limber box with the rounds and fuses in the middle of a battle.

That being said, ( and I agree with Chris) I would not make a guess on the purpose of the pouch other than to transport the round. It must be covered in the regs someplace or else as the war progressed, the pouch was deleted for whatever reason.

BurroughsBattery
07-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Sir,
The purpose of the pouch inside the gunner's haversack is to keep the gunner's level. This is an overlooked item in reenacting, but if you have shot artillery live fire, it is very handy. This tells you if the trunnions are level. (in relation to the ground, if one wheel is lower than the other)If they are not, the shot drifts to the low side, like having a scope on a rifle that is not level.
The cartridge bags used during the war were self consuming, so any spark at all would set off the charge. Friction primers were not kept in the gunner's haversack. That could be way too exciting.

Take care,
Steve Cameron
Burrough's Battery

tompritchett
07-03-2007, 11:22 PM
The purpose of the pouch inside the gunner's haversack is to keep the gunner's level.

Finally we have an answer.