How Do You Seal Your Arsenal Packs?

[bob 125th nysvi]

This just occurred to me as I was sitting there making up cartridges the other night and setting up the printer to print labels on the Arsenal packs.

Ok, now that I've folded it all together, what makes it stick together? Glue? If so what would be an appropriate era glue? Or is it just twine and should I be using cotton or hemp?

Suggestions and opinions welcome.

[Western Blue Belly]

Duct Tape...I just use a tiny touch of glue with a glue stick, works fine.

[Memphis]

Ken,

Was it popular to use branch color duct tape for that extra edge in authenticity, such as red for artillery, green for sharpshooters, and yellow for, well, perhaps this is beyond the pale. :rolleyes:

[TimKindred]

Comrades,

Actually, if you follow the directions from the Ordnance Department and use a bundling jig when putting up the bundles, then all you need for proper closure is the string tied around it. Works like a champ.

One other thing I would strongly suggest to those who roll their own, is to have your messmates over for a cartridge rolling party.

Back in the day, we'd have 6-10 fellows get together with all the materials, and make up 2-3 thousand rounds at a time. With one or two cutting trapezoida, then one or two rolling and tying off tubes, a couple more filling, closing, etc, it goes very fast. Every so often you switch stations so as to not get too tired doing repetitive tasks.

Once you get the rounds made up, then reset everything and start bundling them and stacking in a wooden ammunition packing box.

The arsenals long ago figured out the best way to make up cartridges for efficiency of time and materials. :cool:

Respects,

[TimKindred]

Ken,

Was it popular to use branch color duct tape for that extra edge in authenticity, such as red for artillery, green for sharpshooters, and yellow for, well, perhaps this is beyond the pale. :rolleyes:


Ah heck Ken,

Just make the whole cartridge outta duct tape. That way you can reload 'em.....:rolleyes:

Respects,

[Rob Weaver]

My understanding also is that the packages were simply tied off with string. I am given also to understand that Federal packages were also shipped without labels.
"A world without string is chaos."

[Western Blue Belly]

Ah heck Ken,

Just make the whole cartridge outta duct tape. That way you can reload 'em.....:rolleyes:

Respects,


But what will I then do with my penny rolls?

[Western Blue Belly]

Ken,

Was it popular to use branch color duct tape for that extra edge in authenticity, such as red for artillery, green for sharpshooters, and yellow for, well, perhaps this is beyond the pale. :rolleyes:


Of course it was! However one must be very careful to make certain that the Duct Tape service stripe closing pack follows the manuals to the letter. Color and stickability must be spot on which may require a trip to Lowes for your Duct Tape supply rather then the lesser expensive and lesser authentic brands found at Wal-Mart....I really need to go to bed now. I'm putting WAY to much thought into this..!

[Pete K]

To add authenticity I ignore modern child labor laws and make my Eighth grade students roll empty tubes for my pards. Actually, I use it in a series of lessons on labor and working conditions in the nineteenth century. Hands-on economics/history lesson. Many thirteen to eighteen year old girls worked at the Allegheny Arsenal in Pittsburgh (pettite fingers could get the bullet seated well). Of the eighty-four victims killed in the explosion (9-17-62, ironic date?) almost twenty were girls under twenty-one years old.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

This just occurred to me as I was sitting there making up cartridges the other night and setting up the printer to print labels on the Arsenal packs.


I've never heard of Civil War-era rifle-musket ammunition packs having labels on them. The wooden crate they came in was labeled--there was no need to label the individual packs of 10 rounds.

[Western Blue Belly]

I've never heard of Civil War-era rifle-musket ammunition packs having labels on them. The wooden crate they came in was labeled--there was no need to label the individual packs of 10 rounds.

Kevin,
I can give you one example of just that. I have seen a St. Louis arsenal pack that was labeled. More interesting is that it contained only 5 rounds inserted into a wooden block which was then covered with paper with the label printed on it.

Also...

http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/m15425.JPEG

[tompritchett]

Kevin,
I can give you one example of just that. I have seen a St. Louis arsenal pack that was labeled. More interesting is that it contained only 5 rounds inserted into a wooden block which was then covered with paper with the label printed on it.

Also...

http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/m15425.JPEG

If you will notice, the ammunition appears to the British version of the Enfield ammuniton. The ball looks more like the British Enfield round than the American minnie ball and the orientation of the round in the tube is that of the British rounds than that of the standard American rounds. Therefore, my guess would be that the packages were labelled to let the soldiers know that they were not standard American ammunition packages. This is especially critical because the procedure for loading the ball into the barrel is different for the British rounds than for the American rounds. For the British rounds, the soldier has to flip the package after pouring the powder and then insert the ball and wrapper into the barrel (the grease was on the wrapper and not on the ball). These are two big differences in the loading procedures for the two types and thus the soldier had to know that he was dealing with non-American round before he started loading.

[wmkane]

EOG Confederate p 39 shows .58 Ammunition Pack with a label.
p 33 also
p 53 is pistol

[bob 125th nysvi]

I've never heard of Civil War-era rifle-musket ammunition packs having labels on them. The wooden crate they came in was labeled--there was no need to label the individual packs of 10 rounds.

photos of early war packs having the labels either printed directly on them of pasted on with a separate sheet of paper.

I understand that this practice very quickly fell out of favor as massive amounts of ammo started to be produced.

Watervliet Arsenal (Watervleit, NY near where I work) is one of the Arsenals that at least early on printed labels on their Arsenal packs.

I've seen the pictures of them.

[bob 125th nysvi]

I realize I'd be canned as a sloppy folder.

Anybody got any secrets they'd care to share about how they get a nice neat little package to tie up?

[Pete K]

There are CW era carridge packs on display at Soldiers and Sailors Memorial Hall in Pittsburgh with labels. "Allegheny Arsenal, Pittsburgh, Penna. 1862"

[flattop32355]

I realize I'd be canned as a sloppy folder.
Anybody got any secrets they'd care to share about how they get a nice neat little package to tie up?

Pay someone else to do it. ;)

How are you doing it now; materials, method, etc?

[bob 125th nysvi]

Pay someone else to do it. ;)

How are you doing it now; materials, method, etc?

brown paint masking paper (as recommended in CRRC2) size 9 x 6.

I made up a couple of cradles, I put the paper in the cradle and that is when the trouble begins.

I can't get the paper to lie in the cradle without crinkling all up and then it really doesn't fold up correctly.

So I'm sure I'm doing something wrong when putting the paper in the cradle or maybe I just built the cradles wrong.

[Pete]

I've never heard of Civil War-era rifle-musket ammunition packs having labels on them. The wooden crate they came in was labeled--there was no need to label the individual packs of 10 rounds.

Round Ball to Rimfire, by Dean S Thomas shows a number of Federal ammo packs with labels. Just for the .58s there is Allegheny (1858), Allegheny (1861), Kennebec (1861) and St Louis (1864). R. Bartholow's Water-Proof cartridge (1861). Chadwick packs (undated) one with caps and one without. Johnson & Dows Waterproof & Combustible (patented, Oct 1st, 1861).

Plenty of labeled packs for the other weapons also.

[jurgitemvaletem]

brown paint masking paper (as recommended in CRRC2) size 9 x 6.

I made up a couple of cradles, I put the paper in the cradle and that is when the trouble begins.

I can't get the paper to lie in the cradle without crinkling all up and then it really doesn't fold up correctly.

So I'm sure I'm doing something wrong when putting the paper in the cradle or maybe I just built the cradles wrong.

I don't bother with a cradle. I actually took 10 cartridges and laid them 5 on top of 5 and measured the dimensions. I then took a standard 2x4 and planed it down to the correct dimensions.

Then when I make the bundles I fold the paper around the block, put the first string around it, slide it off the block, put my carts in with the caps, then fold the top down and tie it off.

A very time consuming process. " Daddy, I want a sweat shop NOW, NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!"

[flattop32355]

Bob,

When I first inquired how to properly fold the cartridges/packs, my then-company commander had me over and showed me how. He also cut out a form from 3/8 inch wood: base is 5 1/2 x 51/2 inches, two side walls 5 1/2 by 1 1/2 inches tall, and a single end piece 3 1/4 x 1 1/2 inches. The walls are centered on the base and screwed into place. He then drilled ten holes in the baseplate with a 5/8 inch drill bit, within the confines of the walls.

The final piece is a solid block that fits into the walled area with 1/16 inch or less total "windage" between it and the side walls (approx. 3 1/8" wide, 2 5/16" tall and 1 1/4" deep). It has a hole drilled through it from top to bottom of its tall side, with the holes recessed at each end, and a string running through it of 6" length, knotted off at each end so it won't pull through.

You can set ten tied-off cartidge tubes in the ten holes, load them with cotton bullets and powder, then fold them off.

Then you take the 4 3/4" x 10" arsenal pack paper, center it around the wood block, and fold it around the block, tightly creasing each edge and fold. Lay a piece of twine of the needed length to tie off the pack into the form and slip the block with paper around it back into the form and pull the block out of the surrounding paper. Then you can pack your cartridges into the paper pack, close off the open end, and make the first part of the tie-off with the string. (I usually knot it off here, rather than just wrap it around the other way and then do a single tie). Lift the pack out of the form and wrap the twine around the other way, and tie it off. You're done.

My digital camera is dead, or I'd send pictures. It's fairly simple to make, and keeps the pack/cartridges confined most of the way through so they don't start rolling around and cause a looser tie-off. The big trick is making those creases sharp when you fold the pack paper around the block.

It's quite possible others have a more efficient way of doing this, but it works well for me. The ten rounds fit well, with an eleventh with caps laying on the top. If I'm packing using "reenactor" rounds, which are smaller, I usually need to pack in about 14 total to make it full enough to wrap up without it flopping all over the place.

Hope this helps.

[1stTexas]

I know it may not be "kosher" for a reenactment but I found a supplier of minie bullets that packages their minies in a box that fits in the dual Confederate style cartirdge box tins perfectly and will probably fit in the Federal cartridge single tin also. I merey empty the bullets into another container and place the empty box in the tins and then fill them with charged paper ladys. I use a glue stick from a office supplier and glue a reproduction of the 1862 Columbus Depot Arsenal labels on the box. www.moyerscastbullets.com

If you need 58 cal., .575" diameter three groove minies anyway, buy those and use the empty box in your cartridge box tin(s) with the period lable on the box.

[Bill_Cross]

Although I have agreed with Kevin O'Beirne perhaps as many times in the past years as I've kissed my sister (and I only have a brother ;-)), in this case I would at least suggest he has a point: as the war went on, the practice of labeling individual packs likely was set aside (or so I have read, but can't right this moment find the source), and therefore is not something we need to slavishly follow. There is also the problem of having the proper labels for the many scenarios we find ourselves recreating.

It is also possible that the cartridge packs surviving are samples saved by the arsenals or others and not items from the field. This is apparently one reason why surviving uniform jackets are often so tiny: they were samples never intended for disbursement to the troops, and not proof that our forebears were midget wraiths.

[tompritchett]

This is apparently one reason why surviving uniform jackets are often so tiny: they were samples never intended for disbursement to the troops, and not proof that our forebears were midget wraiths.

Or excess jackets for that size. You can always wear a jacket or pants that are too large, but can rarely wear items that are too small. Thus very few excess larger size uniform items and many more remaining smaller uniform items. Or a combination of both.

[bob 125th nysvi]

in this case I would at least suggest he has a point: as the war went on, the practice of labeling individual packs likely was set aside (or so I have read, but can't right this moment find the source), and therefore is not something we need to slavishly follow. There is also the problem of having the proper labels for the many scenarios we find ourselves recreating.

It is also possible that the cartridge packs surviving are samples saved by the arsenals or others and not items from the field. This is apparently one reason why surviving uniform jackets are often so tiny: they were samples never intended for disbursement to the troops, and not proof that our forebears were midget wraiths.

I did mention earlier that the practice fell of later in the war although I'll bet Arsenals continued to do it until they ran out of labels or until they decided to save ink by not printing the labels on the pack.

Either labeled or unlabeled would be appropriate for an impression with unlabeled being more popular than labeled as the war wore on.

As to why there are arsenal packs still existing there could be any number of reasons. They were shoved into the bottom of effects sent home and not discovered until after the war. The box was shoved into the back of a depot or warehouse and not dicovered until the shooting was over. Etc.

I can't imagine that they were "sample" kept by the arsenal because I can't figure out why they would be. Not advertising, there was only one customer during the war. After the war production would have wound down because there was a large inventory on hand and after the weapons were converted there would be no demand for more. So maybe a couple of them are late war samples that were never issued but if true that would prove that arsenals labeled until the end.

[flattop32355]

Although I have agreed with Kevin O'Beirne perhaps as many times in the past years as I've kissed my sister (and I only have a brother ;-)), in this case I would at least suggest he has a point...

See, we can agree on some things!

Everybody....Group hug!!!!!!