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bizzilizzit
06-04-2007, 02:19 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070604/ap_on_re_us/vermont_secession

I've heard rumblings of this in the past - seems it's come to a head, once again.
Elizabeth

jurgitemvaletem
06-04-2007, 02:28 PM
I've been there, trust me, in Vermont there is nothing to do. This is the product of boredom, unfortunately it is a problem that will case some small trouble for our great government, and for that I feel sorry for the people that can not even realize the best thing in the world when it is right in front of them.

Graves Mercantile
06-04-2007, 02:48 PM
I tend to agree with the people of Vermont. Even though we are political opposites, I understand the frustration of being ignored by our elected leaders. We elect representatives, but most of the time they only listen to the 51% that will get them reelected. Or even worse they only listen to the special interests that pay for the TV commercials.

The amnesty bill for illegal aliens is a perfect example of the government's disconnect from the wishes of the people.

I say more power to Vermont and anyone else that wants to leave the U.S.A. We are the best form of government in the world, but without a doubt there are numerous problems and everyone has to right to life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness.

Deo Vindice

sbl
06-04-2007, 05:10 PM
I just post this same info on a local forum about this story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Vermont_Brigade

1st Vermont Brigade

"..Petersburg and the Valley

"..While the Army of the Potomac and the Army of Northern Virginia dug in at Petersburg, Confederate General Jubal A. Early was sent on a mission through the Shenandoah Valley to the outskirts of Washington, D.C. The Vermont Brigade fought in the Valley Campaign against Early, under the overall command of Philip Sheridan. At the Battle of Cedar Creek, Early launched a surprise attack against Sheridan's army and the First Vermont Brigade covered the Union army's temporary retreat, prior to Sheridan's counterattack and decisive victory. Six Medals of Honor were awarded to Vermonters at Cedar Creek, and the brigade captured three regimental colors and much of the 12th North Carolina regiment..."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Vermont_Brigade

2nd Vermont Brigade

"...The Gettysburg Campaign

"...On the morning of July 3, members of the 16th regiment were stationed as pickets forward of Cemetery Hill. In the afternoon, after a two hour artillery duel, Confederate General Robert E. Lee launched what has become known Pickett's Charge. The Vermont pickets were withdrawn, and as the Confederates approached Cemetery Hill, the three Vermont regiments flanked the Confederate troops and inflicted severe casualties on the advancing regiments. History recalls this battle as the high-water mark of the Confederacy. Three years later, at St. Albans, Vermont, General George G. Meade, commanding the Army of the Potomac at Gettysburg, said "there was no individual body of men who rendered greater service at a critical moment than the comparatively raw troops commanded by General Stannard."[1]..."

Vermonters I know are still like this.

reb64
06-04-2007, 05:15 PM
The state in question pardons child molesters and has gay marriage. If it broke away, I wouldn't fight to bring it back

Graves Mercantile
06-04-2007, 05:49 PM
Vermonters have a right to their opinions. That is what the Constitution guarantees for all of us. We may not like the public policies of another state, but that is part of the reason why you do not live there.

If Vermont is successful at leaving the union of states I think it will only be the first in a line of states to do so. New Hampshire has a very healthy love for independence and personal responsibility. It would be wonderful to see these two small, but important states taking the lead on a new wave of secession.

VA Soldier
06-04-2007, 07:34 PM
If Vermont is successful at leaving the union of states I think it will only be the first in a line of states to do so.

This is one of the key reasons that the Federal government opposed secession in the 1861. They were afraid partly that if it went unchallenged it would lead to the disintegration of the Union. Then the individual states would break down and the US would suffer the same fate as Europe, a history of petty wars.
They feared the grand experiment of democracy would fall and the dreams of the founding fathers would be crushed.

D A Jackson

brown30741
06-04-2007, 07:58 PM
Am I the only one who sees the irony in holding a modern secession convention in East Tennessee?

tompritchett
06-04-2007, 08:28 PM
If Vermont is successful at leaving the union of states I think it will only be the first in a line of states to do so.
To play out this scenario further, imagine Maine and New Hampshire following suit, followed by Nova Scotia and Newfoundland seceding from Canada because of the Quebecois. You could have a sizable new North American country with control of the Saint Lawrence seaway.

bizzilizzit
06-05-2007, 10:53 AM
To play out this scenario further, imagine Maine and New Hampshire following suit, followed by Nova Scotia and Newfoundland seceding from Canada because of the Quebecois. You could have a sizable new North American country with control of the Saint Lawrence seaway.

You can throw in Long Island - they've been trying to secede from NY forever.

bob 125th nysvi
06-05-2007, 12:01 PM
I tend to agree with the people of Vermont. Even though we are political opposites, I understand the frustration of being ignored by our elected leaders. We elect representatives, but most of the time they only listen to the 51% that will get them reelected. Or even worse they only listen to the special interests that pay for the TV commercials.

The amnesty bill for illegal aliens is a perfect example of the government's disconnect from the wishes of the people.

I say more power to Vermont and anyone else that wants to leave the U.S.A. We are the best form of government in the world, but without a doubt there are numerous problems and everyone has to right to life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness.

Deo Vindice

That less than 50% of the population votes. So just what incentive does a politician have for listening to those who don't vote?

The answer is simple. Vote and if your sides loses democratically work for chnage. A republican form of government assures that the majority of the voters get what they want and thankfully ours also ensures that minorities don't get unduly run over in the process.

bob 125th nysvi
06-05-2007, 12:06 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070604/ap_on_re_us/vermont_secession

I've heard rumblings of this in the past - seems it's come to a head, once again.
Elizabeth

this is a news organization running with a story that has no legs endorsed by a group of quacks because it looks good on the internet.

Yes Vermonters tend to go their own way and benefit from a relatively small and non-oppressive state government (unlike there big sisters to the west and south) and the state very much has a small town feel to it.

And mostly they go by a live and let live motto.

And it is something of a haven for hippies who haven't realized the 60s are over (too many drugs) and hippie wannabe's who have no clue what it was all about.

But they are also very much middle Americans and would very quickly repudiate any serious effort to leave the union.

Besides as settled in 1865, they don't have a right to secede.

flattop32355
06-05-2007, 10:12 PM
....Can we make Virginia take back those western counties?

tompritchett
06-06-2007, 07:10 AM
Can we make Virginia take back those western counties?

And what would happen to Senator Byrd?

MtVernon
06-06-2007, 09:02 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070604/ap_on_re_us/vermont_secession

I've heard rumblings of this in the past - seems it's come to a head, once again.
Elizabeth

To answer the question, "Is Vermont the New South?", I'd say that being friends with a native Vermonter and living in San Francisco (don't ask; I don't know how I ended up here either), I'd say that from all I've heard up to now, Vermont is the new Haight-Ashbury.

flattop32355
06-06-2007, 09:27 AM
And what would happen to Senator Byrd?

Exactly! ;)

Memphis
06-06-2007, 01:18 PM
Remember OPEC?

Laugh if you want, but with Vermont having control over much of the US Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve, this may be an exceptionally serious matter.

flattop32355
06-06-2007, 04:14 PM
Remember OPEC?
Laugh if you want, but with Vermont having control over much of the US Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve, this may be an exceptionally serious matter.

We can make do with the synthetic stuff, although I'd expect certain politicians will try to tax it at a higher rate to pay for pet programs.

reb4lee
06-06-2007, 04:33 PM
Quote:
If Vermont is successful at leaving the union of states I think it will only be the first in a line of states to do so.
Quote: To play out this scenario further, imagine Maine and New Hampshire following suit, followed by Nova Scotia and Newfoundland seceding from Canada because of the Quebecois. You could have a sizable new North American country with control of the Saint Lawrence seaway.

I would have to agree, IF Vermont did leave it might not be the last one leave.

reb64
06-06-2007, 05:12 PM
And what would happen to Senator Byrd?


sen. byrd third in line to be president and a ex-klan recruiter, and they pick on the battleflaG!

reb64
06-06-2007, 05:16 PM
Vermonters have a right to their opinions. That is what the Constitution guarantees for all of us. We may not like the public policies of another state, but that is part of the reason why you do not live there.

my friend, if they have the right to molest kids up there and go free, then how can/could this state join in the fight against "slavery". only selective live and let live policies?

tompritchett
06-06-2007, 09:24 PM
Laugh if you want, but with Vermont having control over much of the US Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve, this may be an exceptionally serious matter.

Not a problem. The South will rise again with it sorghum molasses. Who needs that N.E. import.

Graves Mercantile
06-07-2007, 10:23 AM
my friend, if they have the right to molest kids up there and go free, then how can/could this state join in the fight against "slavery". only selective live and let live policies?


A right to molest kids? Dude, I heard the story for O'reilly and it wasn't good that the judge did what he did. BUT you are talking about one case and inferring that the entire state is in favor of child molestation.

Slavery ended 150 years ago and this issue occurred last year, so these are different people with different values. And we all vote with our feet on how we want our communities to be.

sbl
06-07-2007, 12:10 PM
Nathan,

There was more to that story ....as usual. The judge was trying to get treatment for the man. He wouldn't have gotten that in jail, from which he would have been eventually released. But that part doesn't make good red meat.


I hope some Vermonters pipe up here about their state.

Graves Mercantile
06-07-2007, 12:43 PM
Scott,

I agree completely. Treatment is a better option for many criminal offenders than simple prison time. There are a lot of people that believe an eye for an eye is the only solution, which is not a very good answer.

Gandhi said: "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind". At some point we need to be gracious and come up with a solution that punishes the wrong doing, but teaches the person a better way.