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David Meister
05-29-2007, 05:56 PM
I thought I would post this here and see what some people think.

It upsets me to see Farb shoulder straps with black background for staff and generals for sale at most online sutlers. It clearly states in the 61 regs that staff and generals have a dark blue background

It also upsets me to see green background for medical officers Did sharpshooter officers have green background? (I dont know I have not researched it.) Medical officers were staff officers and thus had a Dark blue background

I Just want to know what y'all think.

toptimlrd
05-29-2007, 06:08 PM
You are correct they should be dark blue. Not sure where the black comes from.

jurgitemvaletem
05-29-2007, 07:21 PM
I believe a chaplains shoulder strap rank insignia should be black, I could be wrong, and this could be another to add to your list.

Jurg

Rob Weaver
05-30-2007, 04:35 AM
Staff shoulder boards should be dark blue, just as AG boards are now. There was no insignia of rank authorized for chaplains during the war, and for some time afterward as a matter of fact. In photos you see chaplains wearing staff insignia, and cavalry insignia. The latter comes from the assumption that since they were paid as cavalry officers, they must be entitled to the uniform of the same. The chaplain's insignia with a cross in the middle is actually from the navy, which had the good sense to create a chaplain's berth a long time before the Civil War. Again, they are as likely as any other shoulder strap for chaplains. Some chaplains felt no need to look or act military. Others sensed keenly that they were the odd man out in the military organization, and felt that their uniform appearance did nothing to improve that situation.

David Meister
05-30-2007, 09:08 AM
It upsets me that sutlers pass the black backed shoulder straps as staff straps and some dont even offer the dark blue ones

lazyrebel2
05-31-2007, 12:11 PM
Also there has been an increase in the use of black cuff for officers. (I am mounted cav) I use to be in the 6th VA Cav which from what I read split off from the Black horse and so it kept its black trim. I am now in the 35th and the 1st NC Cav. Anyone have ideas about cuff trim?

Pvt Schnapps
06-01-2007, 02:18 PM
See:

http://howardlanham.tripod.com/illist.html

and

http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/Uniforms_Insignia/uniforms_insignia.html

and

http://americana.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=663&Lot_No=72185&ic=CrossPromoBanner-Featured

and

http://www.civilwarantiqueshop.com/uniforminsignia.htm

for examples.

I think that one reason sutlers offer black straps is because some were (like Grant's in the third site above, and the staff lieutenant's on the fourth site), or were so dark that they appeared black, like the "Navy Blue" of naval uniforms.

The first site above has several additional examples of actual insignia and they show, if nothing else, that variations occurred because these were privately purchased items, not mass-produced for widespread issue.

It's probably not advisable to take the regulations too literally when it comes to uniforms actually worn. We know, for example, that non-regulation types of "subdued" insignia came into use, and that lined sack coats were issued to soldiers other than recruits.

Jas. Cox
06-09-2007, 09:33 PM
My Medical Staff Shoulder Straps are a dark blue, but almost look black in light other than direct sunlight. Very much like one of the examples here: http://howardlanham.tripod.com/linkgr3/link159.html

I've heard a lot of argument over whether or not they were green backgrounds. One source says what they original thought was a green background example was really the blue pigment that had faded over time. In this war there were rules and then there were rules. They weren't standardized like the modern army so I cannot really say. Personally, I want to be as correct as possible (to a point). What others do, I cannot say.

hanktrent
06-10-2007, 05:35 AM
One source says what they original thought was a green background example was really the blue pigment that had faded over time.

I don't know one way or the other about blue dye, but cheap black dye was notorious for fading to a dark green, as seen in the lining and sometimes the outer cloth as well, of formerly black frock coats from the period.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

GrumpyDave
06-10-2007, 06:16 AM
Shall we now venture into the mess that is Confederate collar rank?

:rolleyes:

Jas. Cox
06-10-2007, 10:00 AM
I don't know one way or the other about blue dye, but cheap black dye was notorious for fading to a dark green, as seen in the lining and sometimes the outer cloth as well, of formerly black frock coats from the period.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net


It actually may have been black dye that was sighted and not blue. I don't have my source readily available and I'm just going by my faulty memory. :?

Ken
06-10-2007, 07:37 PM
They should be dark blue yes, but I have seen enough originals that had black (not dark blue) backgrounds to indicate that this was not uncommon. Check out these.

http://www.civilwarantiqueshop.com/ui34.htm

Ken
06-10-2007, 07:45 PM
Oh speaking of medical officers, very rare and scarce but here you go. A bit faded however they appear to be green backgrounds.

http://www.civilwarantiqueshop.com/hg27.htm

jurgitemvaletem
06-10-2007, 11:13 PM
They should be dark blue yes, but I have seen enough originals that had black (not dark blue) backgrounds to indicate that this was not uncommon. Check out these.

http://www.civilwarantiqueshop.com/ui34.htm

These could probably be classifide as good examples of a private purchase
item.

Ephraim_Zook
06-12-2007, 02:33 PM
According to the 1861 US Army Regs (Rev '63), chaplains were authorized to wear a uniform as follows:

"The uniform for a chaplain will be a plain black frock coat with standing collar, and one row of nine black buttons; plain black pantaloons; black felt hat, or army forage cap, without ornament. On occasions of ceremony a plain chapeau de bras* may be worn."

* One of those "fore and aft" hats sometimes seen on naval officers even into the early 20th century.