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xjess
04-27-2007, 06:39 PM
What do you think about this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=INoDBnq9ze8

Huck Finn
04-27-2007, 07:12 PM
She is hot! I mean H-O-T, hot!

Gary
04-27-2007, 07:25 PM
I was in Suffolk less than a week ago too. Got to visit the Reddick House but didn't have time for the railroad museum (that was in the background of the newsreporter). What I really wanted to see was Hill's Point Fort.

terry sorchy
04-27-2007, 07:49 PM
Way to many flags at reenactments in the first place. Should only be used if numbers allow.
Cheers
Terry Sorchy

Micah Trent
04-27-2007, 09:40 PM
I'm surprised Suffolk of all places would be questioning the Confederate flag.

Poor Private
04-27-2007, 09:42 PM
Is this polictical correctness raising it's ugly head???

"Doc" Nelson
04-27-2007, 11:06 PM
My family and I moved from the Hampton Roads area in 2004. I grew up there. The Confederate Flag has always been a sore subject amongst people in Southern States. But, that's a part of the reason we do, what we do . . keep history alive. To educate people. To teach right from wrong, the TRUTH!

You know, I'm proud of my ancestor's service in the Confederate Army. Yes, family records quote my ancestor as "longing for the end of the War and, life to return to normal". But, I am still proud of what he stood up for! The defense of his home.

So many hate groups (Aryan Brotherhood, KKK, The Minutemen, etc.), have tarnished the Confederate Battle Flag. It once stood for something. But now, it's only associated with hatred. Politicians, it seems to me, are afraid of losing their votes and, wants to "please" the voters. So, if they give off the perception that they're against something like the Confederate Flag, they may win those votes.

First of all, the Confederate Battle Flag is not a racist flag. Yes, we (as Reenactors/Living Historians) know this. Obviously, there will always be those that think otherwise. I can hear it now, "don't you know that the Ku Klux Klan uses the Confederate Battle Flag, and don't you know that the white supremacists groups use the Confederate Flag, and don't you know the hate groups use the Confederate Flag?" Yes, I know this. But I also know that they use the Stars and Stripes and I also know they even use the Christian flag as well. Let me ask a question. Why are not the Stars and Stripes and Christian flag considered racist flags as well? I mean if someone or something is going to be guilty by association, I can show you pictures of the KKK marching in Washington, D.C. and there was not one Confederate Flag amongst them. They are all carrying the Stars and Stripes, the U.S. Flag! And, we're "OK" with this? If we are going to condemn a flag because the KKK and, other white supremacists and hate groups use it, let's condemn all the flags they use. Be consistent! Condemn the Stars and Stripes. Condemn the Christian flag. Condemn any flag they carry or use.

Now please, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I’m not saying that I’m not a proud American. I'm very proud to be an American. I'm also proud of my heritage. My family helped found this Country . . why wouldn't I be proud? One of my ancestors signed the Declaration of Independence for crying out loud! I had an ancestor that was a Royal Governor of the Colony of Virginia for the King of England. I had another that, served as a member of the House of Burgesses until the Royal Governor Lord Dunmore, provoked at its protests over the Boston Port Act, Lord Dunmore dissolved the House of Burgesses. After which he was elected to the Continental Congress and, served as the Governor of Virginia and, Commander of the Virginia Militia during the "War for Independence" (Revolutionary War, for those that don't know). He was a very staunch Patriot! All I’m saying is, I’m sick and tired of people saying how “the Confederate Flag represents hatred and slavery”. I don’t think that the Confederate Battle Flag had a choice in the matter of these hate groups carrying it.

Mint Julep
04-28-2007, 12:19 AM
Based on the video I just saw, I'd be offended by the display of so many CS flags. They seemed to have one for every tent. That is doing nothing but rubbing it in the faces of those that might be offended. One flag, at an appropriate location within the event, is sufficient.

Those guys are a perfect example of "Heritage over history".

They should go to better events.

"Doc" Nelson
04-28-2007, 09:34 AM
Based on the video I just saw, I'd be offended by the display of so many CS flags. They seemed to have one for every tent. That is doing nothing but rubbing it in the faces of those that might be offended. One flag, at an appropriate location within the event, is sufficient.
I agree with you on the amount of flags used during an event ;). Flags should be proportionate with the size of the "unit" or, the event itself. Many times, there’s”overkill" on flags during events.

Micah Trent
04-28-2007, 03:39 PM
Based on the video I just saw, I'd be offended by the display of so many CS flags. They seemed to have one for every tent. That is doing nothing but rubbing it in the faces of those that might be offended. One flag, at an appropriate location within the event, is sufficient.

Those guys are a perfect example of "Heritage over history".

They should go to better events.

I went to this one event a few years back here in KY that had only seven reenactors,but what got me was the fact that they had over twelve different flags to display in their camp, no joke! And of the seven reenactors, I believe they only had four tents.:confused:

sbl
04-28-2007, 06:36 PM
Jesse,

Thanks for the link.

Eventually they have to take down the Christmas lights too.

jat
04-28-2007, 07:09 PM
I say that "money as the problem" is BULL.Is they were to charge admission to the public they could most likely gain a profit. I think the city council is making a HUGE mistake.

reb64
04-28-2007, 08:46 PM
I was in Suffolk less than a week ago too. Got to visit the Reddick House but didn't have time for the railroad museum (that was in the background of the newsreporter). What I really wanted to see was Hill's Point Fort.


I used to roam this area years ago and did lots of metal detecting there. Was pristine and full of shells, bullets, etc. was bombarded heavily by gunboats. fort was in good shape, but most of the area is now a golf course and housing I'm told. suffolk was a hot area and a siege just before Gettysburg.

reb64
04-28-2007, 08:50 PM
Based on the video I just saw, I'd be offended by the display of so many CS flags. They seemed to have one for every tent. That is doing nothing but rubbing it in the faces of those that might be offended. One flag, at an appropriate location within the event, is sufficient.

Those guys are a perfect example of "Heritage over history".

They should go to better events.

Maybe too many, but whats wrong with too many? Suffolk area, especially balckwater river area was a highly contested area. few know or acknowledge the big siege there. but why would the flag offend, if on other days the streets are draped with US flags? this is confederate heritage day, what else should be flown except different versions of a confederate flag.

sbl
04-29-2007, 08:21 AM
"...this is confederate heritage day, what else should be flown except different versions of a confederate flag..."



http://www.oceanside.k12.ny.us/5north/archives/lah2002_2003/june/civilwar/Mvc-023s.jpg

Hardcracker
04-30-2007, 12:14 PM
Just keep in mind that Photo was taken in Marion, INDIANA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Smith

Joel Foust

bill watson
04-30-2007, 12:47 PM
Interesting, Joel. No, wait, fascinating and, under the circumstances, devastating. On a somewhat related note, KKK from Indiana had to come down to North Carolina for a rally in the mid 1990s because there weren't enough KKK in NC any more to even hold a seance or a bridge game, let alone a rally.

I'm not sure the display of flags they showed in the clip was anything other than folks putting out a bunch of flags but I do know if you put out a first national, 12-star battle flag, 2nd national, 13-star battleflag and third national, you have the material for an interesting discussion on the evolution of the various Confederate flags, including their use as directional guides for battalions under fire, which is of course the source of the honor and valor. And I do know people are interested in hearing that explained. It puts a lot of things in contexts they aren't familiar with.

People are willing to let you separate post-war defamation of the flag from regimental honor, but you have to do more than swell up and bloviate slogans.

What I noted was that the invitation to post messages on the television station's website was straightforward. Part of the "news is a conversation, not an announcement" approach that's sweeping the media. This one was not a loaded invitation, it was just catalytic in support of a dialog.

"Doc" Nelson
04-30-2007, 12:52 PM
On a somewhat related note, KKK from Indiana had to come down to North Carolina for a rally in the mid 1990s because there weren't enough KKK in NC any more to even hold a seance or a bridge game, let alone a rally.You know Bill, I think this what people seem to forget, sometimes. Hatred isn't just in the South . . it's everywhere.

Micah Trent
04-30-2007, 01:03 PM
Why not fly some of that southern "strange fruit" - very historically correct.

Bill,

From some of your ealrier postings on another thread and this...I just don't get you at all. What point are you trying to make?

bill watson
04-30-2007, 01:36 PM
I suppose my point is that stereotyping usually doesn't give us a very satisfactory explanation of things, then or now.

Hence we have a photo someone uses to illustrate a "Confederate" stereotype, a lynching. Only it's not Confederates, its a bunch of Hoosiers. And it's nowhere near the time period.

Too complicated for a forum discussion, that's for sure.

Micah Trent
04-30-2007, 01:41 PM
I suppose my point is that stereotyping usually doesn't give us a very satisfactory explanation of things, then or now.

Hence we have a photo someone uses to illustrate a "Confederate" stereotype, a lynching. Only it's not Confederates, its a bunch of Hoosiers. And it's nowhere near the time period.

Too complicated for a forum discussion, that's for sure.

Mr. Watson,

We got 2 Bills going here, you and Bloaded Corpse. I was not referring to your earlier post. I understodd where you were coming from and agree whole heartedly. :)
I was referring to Bill a.k.a (Bloaded Corpse) I just don't get where he is coming from and what point he is trying to make.
Sorry for any confusion.;)

bill watson
04-30-2007, 01:54 PM
Yikes!

Thanks!

Too many Bills. Somebody yells "Bill!" and five people look up. Now you know why I named my sons Joshua, Caleb and Luke. :-)

Micah Trent
04-30-2007, 01:56 PM
Not a problem!:-D

Hardcracker
04-30-2007, 02:10 PM
You know Bill, I think this what people seem to forget, sometimes. Hatred isn't just in the South . . it's everywhere.


MY point precisely, Jim. I forgot to add that to my post. (Busy dodging "The MAN" at work, you know.)

JF

"Doc" Nelson
04-30-2007, 02:42 PM
MY point precisely, Jim. I forgot to add that to my post. (Busy dodging "The MAN" at work, you know.)

JFI know what you mean, LOL. I'm doing the same thing ;).

sbl
04-30-2007, 02:58 PM
Golly Bill,

I was just trying to funny with the drawers photo.

tompritchett
04-30-2007, 03:08 PM
Was not sure where this thread would go. As long as it stayed on the topic of too many flags being displayed at events, it deserved to remain up here. However, it has turned more towards a discussion of the flag itself so I am moving it to the Flags & Statues thread.

Micah Trent
04-30-2007, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Hardcracker
MY point precisely, Jim. I forgot to add that to my post. (Busy dodging "The MAN" at work, you know.)

JF

Doc" Nelson Quote:
I know what you mean, LOL. I'm doing the same thing .
Today 02:10 PM

I tried dodging the boss but I got busted. Dang it!!!:twisted:

TheQM
04-30-2007, 03:55 PM
Yikes!

Thanks!

Too many Bills. Somebody yells "Bill!" and five people look up. Now you know why I named my sons Joshua, Caleb and Luke. :-)

Bill W.

There's a reason I'm known as "Bill, the other" in some circles.

BTW, Have you noticed that hardly anybody names their male offspring William anymore?

"Doc" Nelson
04-30-2007, 04:31 PM
I tried dodging the boss but I got busted. Dang it!!!:twisted:Face it brother . . you're just not as good as Joel and myself, :rolleyes: LOL.

Sorry, had to throw that one in ;).

One thing you might want to try is, "multi task". Have a couple of different browsers up and running. It's worked for me, on several accounts :cool:.

Anyway, talk with you later.

Micah Trent
04-30-2007, 05:06 PM
One thing you might want to try is, "multi task". Have a couple of different browsers up and running. Its worked for me, on several accounts :cool:.

I did have several browsers up and running, however, I clicked on the wrong one and brought this forum up...lol...my luck!:rolleyes:

tompritchett
04-30-2007, 07:28 PM
There's a reason I'm known as "Bill, the other" in some circles.


Of course we could alway call you here by the name your granddaughter gave you in the Bn. :)

"Doc" Nelson
04-30-2007, 08:28 PM
Why not fly some of that southern "strange fruit" - very historically correct.
Bill Carey,
You know . . I had to think about this for a bit. I didn't know how to respond. But, it almost sounds as if you're racist? If you're not, you sure are giving off that perception . . "flying southern strange fruit".

For those that don't know. "Strange Fruit", was a poem written in 1937, by a Jewish school teacher (Abel Meeropol). Meeropol saw the photo that was posted on here (the original photo) and, said it haunted him for days. And, it also inspired him to write the poem titled, "Strange Fruit". In the photo: Abram Smith and Thomas Shipp were lynched on August 7, 1930 in Marion, Indiana. They had been arrested the night before, charged with robbing and murdering a white factory worker and raping his girlfriend.

So, my question is, if this is, what you consider, "Southern Strange Fruit" . . where is the Mason-Dixon line? Where does Indiana lie: is it a Northern state or a Southern state?

So, if it's "historically correct" things that we wish to talk about. How about punishment to fit your behavior? Such as say . . impudence? A definition of impudence: "Offensively bold behavior". Here is an excerpt of "historical" punishment for those that, for lack of a better term, got out of line: "It would be impossible to enumerate the offences for which men were pilloried: among them were treason, sedition, arson, blasphemy, witch-craft, perjury, wife-beating, cheating, forestalling, forging, coin-clipping, tree-polling, gaming, dice-cogging, quarrelling, lying, libelling, slandering, threatening, conjuring, fortune-telling, "prigging," drunkenness, impudence. One man was set in the pillory for delivering false dinner invitations; another for a rough practical joke; another for selling an injurious quack medicine. All sharpers, beggars, impostors, vagabonds, were liable to be pilloried. So fierce sometimes was the attack of the populace with various annoying and heavy missiles on pilloried prisoners that several deaths are known to have ensued."

Which brings me to another "historical" note. The First Amendment of the US Consitution. Which gives us, American citizens, the right to the "Freedom of Speech". And in 1989, Justice William J. Brennan, Jr. asserted that "if there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea offensive or disagreeable."

So, with having said all of that. Yes, we as Americans, have the right to our freedom of speech. But, we also must remember to listen to others that have a freedom to speak as well. If you don't like something that someone else is doing or, believes in. Well, that's your right. But, each of us still has that right, period!

I thought we were all supposedly "adults" on this forum? Obviously, I have been mistaken. What happened to the idea behind this forum? Here is a post by Provost, the forum Administrator:



3. Inappropriate comments with regard to race, religion, political agendas or disparagement of any social group is not the purpose of this forum. Such comments will be removed on sight.

Those who flagrantly or persistently violate these guidelines may suffer suspension or banishment.

This is a precious resource and we need your help to make it work. If there is a post you believe is inappropriate for this forum, please make (restrained) use of the "alert" button

Our working metaphor is that we're discussing things around Bob's dinner table. Please keep in mind that women and children may be present at that discussion. Remarks not consistent with respect for that situation may be removed without warning.


Let's continue to keep this forum at a high level. Thanks for your support.


The Provost

reb64
05-02-2007, 09:33 PM
This would be appropriate:

http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/thumb/200/200/white_flag.jpg

looks french , not cs

reb64
05-02-2007, 09:36 PM
[QUOTE=Bloated_Corpse]Why not fly some of that southern "strange fruit" - very historically correct.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/d/d4/300px-ThomasShippAbramSmith.jpg

Southern trees bear strange fruit,

but these are yankee trees aren't they?

sbl
05-03-2007, 07:55 AM
looks french , not cs


....your "Freedom Fries?"

Come on Reb, this is so 2003.

http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/defense.asp

NATIONAL DEFENSE

Today's Date: May 3, 2007

"..With more than 1,900 troops, France is also a major US partner in Afghanistan providing troops and support to both the NATO International Security Assistance Force and the American-led Operation Enduring Freedom. In addition air deployments operates on regular basis from Dushanbe (nearly 600 airmen), and occasionally the French Carrier Group is deployed in the region (around 3000 sailors). .."


You could have said Fort Sumter, Harpers Ferry, Fort Pillow...

D'Epineuil Zouave
05-03-2007, 09:27 AM
This would be appropriate:

http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/thumb/200/200/white_flag.jpg

LOL. Sorry... but that image almost made me spray my keyboard with Pepsi. :mrgreen:

reb64
05-03-2007, 05:45 PM
LOL. Sorry... but that image almost made me spray my keyboard with Pepsi. :mrgreen:

yeah, we saw this flag alot.

reb64
05-03-2007, 05:57 PM
hhttrshthdxh
fghngfnfgnfgnfgnf
hh
....your "Freedom Fries?"hhhhrhh
h




actually the taliban has got the french shaken enough to pull out soon according to french papers.


Come on Reb, this is so 2003.

http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/defense.asp
























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hthr

h
hrr
rthrhrthh
hrth
rthtr
rthth

rth
rthrtht
rhrthrthrthrthrth
rhrh



NATIONAL DEFENSE

Today's Date: May 3, 2007

"..With more than 1,900 troops, France is also a major US partner in Afghanistan providing troops and support to both the NATO International Security Assistance Force and the American-led Operation Enduring Freedom. In addition air deployments operates on regular basis from Dushanbe (nearly 600 airmen), and occasionally the French Carrier Group is deployed in the region (around 3000 sailors). .."


You could have said Fort Sumter, Harpers Ferry, Fort Pillow...

toptimlrd
05-03-2007, 06:49 PM
For sale one used French Military rifle, like new never fired, dropped once.


Ok folks don't flame me too hard I am of French descent and have actually been over there a few times and butcher the language better than most Americans. If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? C'est la vie.

bob 125th nysvi
05-16-2007, 07:37 PM
For sale one used French Military rifle, like new never fired, dropped once.


Ok folks don't flame me too hard I am of French descent and have actually been over there a few times and butcher the language better than most Americans. If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? C'est la vie.

the LAST great French General was ITALIAN by birth.

tompritchett
05-16-2007, 07:42 PM
the LAST great French General was ITALIAN by birth.

And he had to move to France to be great. When was the last time the Italians had a famous general? The Roman era. The Italian modern war record makes even the French look like Spartans.