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queenoftheconfederacy
04-21-2007, 02:44 AM
It is not exactly a battlefield, but nonetheless, 6500 were inprisoned and 2800 yankees lost their lives at the Florence Stockade, here in Florence, South Carolina, in a matter of 5 months. Diaries of prisoners who were inprisoned there after being taken from Andersonville write that is was much worse than Andersonville, yet it has been forgotten. Something needs to be done, because not only has it been forgotten, the land has became a wasteland, with a jukejunk across the road from the barely visable monument place there in 1947 by the UDC. Ive been out there, which is very dangerous being that it is now a ghetto and high drug and crime area, to take pictures of land visible. I risked my safety for this place, but yet, no one is willing to risk anything to save it. Just because it is in the South and yankees died there doesnt mean that they shouldnt be remembered and their dying place respected. Something needs to be done!

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00020/39/25/20755293_l.jpg
http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00020/65/15/20755156_l.jpg
http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00020/08/15/20755180_l.jpg
http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00020/69/15/20755196_l.jpg

Spinster
04-21-2007, 10:01 AM
Sounds like an Eagle Scout project just waiting to happen.

Got a picture of the monument itself?

toptimlrd
04-21-2007, 04:06 PM
From the looks of it it may be more than an Eagle Scout project.

reb64
04-21-2007, 06:13 PM
Hey is the land for sale? perhaps '"us" can pitch in with scv help and maintain, clean it up.

queenoftheconfederacy
04-21-2007, 06:54 PM
There is already a group that has been organized to rebuild the stockade, but its quite obvious there isnt much being done. They did purchase 16 of the 26 original acres, but they are allowing it to just sit there and be used in drug related things. There is a low income trailor park and store right about 200 feet from where I took the pictures, but that was risking a little too much for me because it is a very dangerous place, but you can see where the people from the trailor park have made paths into the small cleared field to do Lord knows what there. What is even sadder is that about 80% of this city havent even heard or know of what the stockade is, or that Robert E. Lee himself traveled through here twice. All of the yankee dead from the stockade are buried mostly in mass burial trenchs in the Florence National cemetary. Also, the first woman to ever be buried in a national cemetary, Florena Budwin, is buried amoung the yankee dead too. At least the cemetary is very well kept up, but it is still in a dangerous area, only about a tenth of a mile from the stockade marker. Now I am in no way a Union sympathizer, I am Southern to the bone, but those yankees fought and died for their cause and that doesnt mean they need to be thrown away and forgotten.

Here is the website for the Friends of the Florence Stockade
http://home.att.net/~florencestockade/friends.htm

Here is a picture of the UDC momument
http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00020/12/25/20755221_l.jpg

bill watson
04-22-2007, 09:06 AM
My GGF was one of the federals who passed through there before being one of the thousands released in December 1864. I've been to the site, courtesy of some local Palmetto Battalion reenactors.

I'm told that while it was a terrible place, it was somewhat more organized physically than Andersonville. Apparently part of this used to be farmed; within living memory the farmer changed to a deeper plow one year, and when he did he turned up firepits, in orderly rows across the site.

There's still detritus on site from the Civil War use.

reb64
04-22-2007, 08:09 PM
[QUOTE=queenoftheconfederacy]trailor park and store right about 200 feet from where I took the pictures, but that was risking a little too much for me because it is a very dangerous place,


A lady in want of a escort or future endeavors? i would be honored to be of service if you need to make any more excursions. But alas I am far away in the trans-miss theatre.

queenoftheconfederacy
04-22-2007, 10:48 PM
I greatly appreciate the offer sir, Ive been told that I do need an escort out there, like a police escort, but I can fend for myself, not many would try to mess with this redhead anyway, they should know better, and if something does happen to me, well at least I didnt go in vain but trying to remember and preserve history

reb64
04-22-2007, 11:52 PM
Well if yuor tough enough to go out alone then perhaps you could also muscle or wile the sutlers on this forum out of selling those darn disrespectful socks with the Confedrate flag on the sole. well just jesting all in fun. But seriously, perhaps this soldier can get a tintype of this redhead for his frontline son? With such spirit and vigor, it would remind him to keep up the good fight.

ThumbStall
04-23-2007, 01:00 PM
Now I am in no way a Union sympathizer, I am Southern to the bone, ... Being a Southerner and a Union "sympathizer" are not at odds. There were plenty of Southerners who were loyal to the Union. Most of them were black... unless you think that black southerners are somehow not "southern.." :roll:

paul hadley
04-23-2007, 02:35 PM
My GGF was one of the federals who passed through there before being one of the thousands released in December 1864. I've been to the site, courtesy of some local Palmetto Battalion reenactors.

I'm told that while it was a terrible place, it was somewhat more organized physically than Andersonville. Apparently part of this used to be farmed; within living memory the farmer changed to a deeper plow one year, and when he did he turned up firepits, in orderly rows across the site.

There's still detritus on site from the Civil War use.

Friend, Bill
My GGF's first cousin, William W Hadley of the 76th NY, also had the privilege of residing in those accommodations. To read his letters during his time there and his pension application later in life, that stay perhaps just barely beat the alternative of perishing on the field. To be a prisoner was not for the faint of heart.

We vacationed at Hilton Head last Christmas but my young son needed emergency hospitalization, so my interest in a planned side trip to Florence quickly faded. Perhaps another time.

For now, Miss, please contact the national Monuments and Memorials officer at the Sons of Unon Veterans' web site (suvcw.org). He may have a plan that would help you in working with the usual Civil War preservation organizations but from the approach of linking the already-maintained cemetery with the site of the soldiers' last days. Might be worth a try.

In the meantime, don't be a solo heroine -- visit the stockade site with a friend or two to be safe.

Best regards,
Paul Hadley
Lincoln, Neb.

queenoftheconfederacy
04-23-2007, 06:20 PM
Where are these sutlers? Ill get them, I mean I love the Confederate flag as much as any belle, but it shouldnt be worn on the feet or as a bikini, thats just wrong, I do not have a tintype of myself yet, but when I get one, I will give you a copy, until then, use a picture of Lucy to remind you to fight hard and well.

And I in no way mean that black Southerners are not Southerner, there are some that I know that are more country than me, lol, and I meant by saying that Im not a Union sympathizer as in Im not fond of the North, lol, I was trying to be nice without saying dang yankees, dont get me wrong, I have many yankee friends, but Im always picking on yankees for their different way of life as we Southerners have, white or black

toptimlrd
04-23-2007, 09:23 PM
Since they've been mentioned, about the socks:

The socks in question are documented from the war from multiple sources and there are at least two different pairs still in existance based on two different patterns, they were generally homespun and made at home and sent to those fighting in the war. They were meant to be disrespectful at the time but they are documented and historically accurate. There has been a demand for reproductions primarily as educational pieces to discuss the strong feelings the war inspired and are not meant at this time to continue as a token of disrespect but as a historical reporduction of items that did exist and still exist to this day. At this time I believe we with Nick Sekela are the only ones on the market with them but there are others who have the patterns and are in the process of beginning to reproduce them because of the demand. Now if we find documentation for the opposite, American flags on the soles made in the Confederacy they will be reproduced as well. Unfortunately we don't create history only recreate it. If you look in the sutler row folder you will see not only the posting about these socks but a link to one documentation of their existance. Please before getting upset about these understand their providence and their purpose. Many seem to understand as there is demand for these in the living history field.

toptimlrd
04-24-2007, 12:39 AM
By the way, I am going to be in Florence at some point next week, could you provide the exact location of this site?

queenoftheconfederacy
04-24-2007, 01:21 AM
Its not too hard to miss the site, but you will easily miss the monument. It is on National Cemetery Rd. only about basically right at the National Cemetery. There is a road to access the newer part of the National Cemetery which is called Stocade Rd., you can only go so far on that road before you hit a gate since there is a plant of some sort at the end of the road. The stream that was inside of the fortifications is still visible, its not very wide, but its not small enough to jump across, but you will pass it not even realizing it because there is no bridge and the stream is covered by foliage. You will see the original part of the National Cemetery on the left, it is enclosed in a brick fence across the road from the mental health facility, that is the cemetery that holds the hundreds of nameless Union soldiers in the mass graves, along with Florena Budwin, whos grave is very oddly positioned amidst the huge section of mass graves, so it very prominent and you can see it as soon as you go in, the second part of the National Cemetery is across the road on the right a little distance up from the original. To view the memorial, you have to go a little further past Stockade Rd, only about 300 feet, and you will see the open lot of trash and debris on the right and the juke junk on the left with an open parking lot, there are a few more stores there too, the memorial is on the right at the end of the open lot and behind the weeds and there is a gate where a car could enter and no trespassing sign, the gate is always closed, but it doesn't stop anyone from getting in the field. I was looking through some maps in the library the other day and found a map from 1865 showing where the stockade was, but it wasn't very detailed to show exactly where the walls where, but I didn't look further at that moment because I was there for something else, but if you want, I could go and look through some more maps and such to get you a better idea. Just let me know, Ill probably do it anyway because of my curiosity, lol, but if you want me to meet you out at the National Cemetery, we could walk out to the memorial and parts that arent dangerous and grown up with trees and weeds. Like I said, its not the best neighborhood, so its really best that if you go out there, have someone with you!

Claude Sinclair
04-24-2007, 01:51 PM
Dear Queen,

There's a person named Steve Hardwick who is dying to meet you.

CS

reb64
04-24-2007, 06:07 PM
[QUOTE=toptimlrd]Since they've been mentioned, about the socks:

maybe correct but what is the motive to buy a pair if not to be disrepectful. and how many were actually made. I say feel free to sell them but im repating my pledge to deboot any yankee captured and confiscate them. no true southerner should put up with it, rpro or not

queenoftheconfederacy
04-24-2007, 07:20 PM
Well send Steve along! Ill be around! I also went and did a bunch of research on the Stockade today that I will post later!!

toptimlrd
04-24-2007, 08:20 PM
[QUOTE=toptimlrd]Since they've been mentioned, about the socks:

maybe correct but what is the motive to buy a pair if not to be disrepectful. and how many were actually made. I say feel free to sell them but im repating my pledge to deboot any yankee captured and confiscate them. no true southerner should put up with it, rpro or not


Very simple, to illustrate history. There are at least two pair known to exist and several patterns have apparently appeared. Some see portraying the confederacy as disrespectful but that is a Confederate uniform I wear in my avatar. And trust me we do feel free to sell them and do so regularly.

Claude Sinclair
04-24-2007, 08:46 PM
Well send Steve along! Ill be around! I also went and did a bunch of research on the Stockade today that I will post later!!

Check with J.R. Fisher of the area. He has researched the stockade very much. I have been there and walked the area. BTW, Stay away from Steve. Jean W. is possessive about ole Steve.

Claude Sinclair

reb64
04-24-2007, 09:18 PM
[QUOTE=reb64]


Very simple, to illustrate history. There are at least two pair known to exist and several patterns have apparently appeared. Some see portraying the confederacy as disrespectful but that is a Confederate uniform I wear in my avatar. And trust me we do feel free to sell them and do so regularly.


free enterprise, wonderful. but a true southern partisan wouldn't want yankees tramping on the confederate flag. that should go over to first person as well, as a reenactor portraying a southerner would you sell yanks such items, or do you galvanize to make the sale? just wondering if there are reenactor ethics. no insult intended, just seeking motivation. also when scouring the battlefield for shoes, did confederates come across these and if they did what was the result?

queenoftheconfederacy
04-25-2007, 03:55 AM
Lol, what are you trying to imply? Why exactly does Steve want to meet me? How can I get in touch with J.R. Fisher, does here live here in Florence?

Claude Sinclair
04-25-2007, 06:46 AM
Lol, what are you trying to imply? Why exactly does Steve want to meet me? How can I get in touch with J.R. Fisher, does here live here in Florence?

Here's J.R.'s E-Mail and phone. (843) 665-6350 grayf0x33@aol.com
He is a member of the 8th SC and has researched the Florence Stockade. Relics found on the site are housed at the Darlington museum. J.R. does live in Florence. Another local contact is Ken Howle. As for Steve, he hasn't been out long and I dont' know how he will mix with the public. We are trying to ease him back into society but it has been a process.

Claude Sinclair

bill watson
04-25-2007, 06:57 AM
J.R. is a distinguished, venerable gentleman and a devoted student of the stockade. He can be a wealth of information to anyone willing to learn.

hanktrent
04-25-2007, 07:51 AM
maybe correct but what is the motive to buy a pair if not to be disrepectful. and how many were actually made. I say feel free to sell them but im repating my pledge to deboot any yankee captured and confiscate them. no true southerner should put up with it, rpro or not

Are you just doing some online first person posturing? At first I thought you were kidding, but after the remark about reenactor ethics, it's starting to sound like you're seriously threatening to steal from fellow reenactors during events, because they happen to be portraying Federal soldiers that weekend.

Following that logic, what's your motive for wearing the uniform of an enemy soldier, if not to be disrespectful to the U.S. armed forces? Should "true U.S. soldiers" who have defended the U.S. for real "put up" with what you're doing, or do you want them to take justice into their own hands if they capture you during an event?

And reenactors wonder why it's hard to get enough Federals at events. :roll:

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

reb64
04-27-2007, 04:57 PM
Following that logic, what's your motive for wearing the uniform of an enemy soldier, if not to be disrespectful to the U.S. armed forces? Should "true U.S. soldiers" who have defended the U.S. for real "put up" with what you're doing, or do you want them to take justice into their own hands if they capture you during an event?

And reenactors wonder why it's hard to get enough Federals at events. :roll:

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

I consider if you bear with me, the US military and gov't as the enemy in the late 1800's. after destroying the south, they continued with the genocide of native americans so I don't consider the CSA as the enemy, but rather the embodiment of the revolutionary fathers. But that was then and this is now. I did serve active in the 10th Buffalo Soldiers sqdn, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th inf and wore the US on my blouse for 21 years, but I still won't dish my heritage.

But my humor is also dark so I can understand if you think I'm serious or not. In reality, I don't think anyone has lost their socks yet, not really daring enough to smell those things after a weeknd wearing.

Che
04-30-2007, 10:41 AM
I consider if you bear with me, the US military and gov't as the enemy in the late 1800's. after destroying the south, they continued with the genocide of native americans ....

"Genocide of native americans?" Had their been a true "genocide" of "native americans" there would be no "native americans" left today.

Also, by "native americans" I assume you mean "American Indians." Anyone born in the Western hemisphere is a Native American.

Read this: http://www.peaknet.net/~aardvark/means.html

bill watson
04-30-2007, 12:54 PM
Che, is that Tony Horwitz the guy who actually thought Rob Hodge and Troy Cool peed on their buttons? Mr. Gullible?

Che
05-01-2007, 09:03 AM
Che, is that Tony Horwitz the guy who actually thought Rob Hodge and Troy Cool peed on their buttons? Mr. Gullible?

Sure is! He wrote the funniest book I ever read. .:-D

Here's a link to the entire article: http://www.randomhouse.com/vintage/confederates/

trusouthern
10-16-2014, 04:13 PM
I was wondering if anyone has been to the stockade lately and also I am looking for anyone that might know of people that have done research on it because I am currently writing a research paper on it for college?