Breast Plate ID

[Ed Gallop]

I have tried in vain to discover a breast plate meaning. It is an Eagle, head facing to its left, with 3 arrows in its right talon and an olive branch in its left. I learned the meaning of the arrows and olive branch but they are in oposite talons and a different eagle position than most all I've seen. The only picture I found is at the below link but there is no reference. I was a civil war reinactor in the late 80s and early 90s and acquired the item on a cartridge box strap. No information was available except it was a Union emblem. Maybe someone here knows?
http://www.cowanauctions.com/public/demo/upcoming_dates_view_item.asp?ItemId=38841&AuctionName=

[Western Blue Belly]

Not sure what your asking here. The plate in the link looks like any other...Do you mean that you own one that is a reverse image to the one in your link?

[jurgitemvaletem]

Ken,

I think the fellow is but a lost soul who is looking for a bit of guidance on a subject which we would think of as part of life. I think what he is asking is why the soldiers have them and why are the eagles different from todays modern american symbol of freedom.

To answer your question, they were worn simply to dress the soldier up and make him more presentable as a key part of America. The eagle has long been known as the sybol for American beliefs ( if I recall correctly, it was Ben Franklin who started this) and although it has changed somewhat in appearance over the years, it still represents the same thing you are used to seeing on todays quater dollar pieces.

[Western Blue Belly]

I think the fellow is but a lost soul who is looking for a bit of guidance on a subject which we would think of as part of life. I think what he is asking is why the soldiers have them and why are the eagles different from todays modern american symbol of freedom.

Ahh, that does make more sense.

[Rob Weaver]

It's a great artistic touch how the details of the eagle fit the round frame, isn't it? The slope of the neck and shoulders of the wings to accomodate the space. 19th century Americans weren't terribly infuenced by symetry (sp?); notice that the talons aren't mirror-images of each other, but, again, are molded to fit the space. Do we know who designed the Federal eagle as he appears on the cross-belt plate, or is it more an item of American folk-art?

[Ken]

When I first read the post I got the impression this person was questioning the direction the eagle was facing in reference to the arrows and olive branches. My understanding has always been that in times of war, the eagle always faces in the direction of the arrows. In times of peace the eagle faces the olive branches. This may not have been the case for these Civil War breast plates.

[ngairish]

The eagle has long been known as the sybol for American beliefs ( if I recall correctly, it was Ben Franklin who started this) and although it has changed somewhat in appearance over the years, it still represents the same thing you are used to seeing on todays quater dollar pieces.


Actually I believe Ben Franklin was pushing for the turkey as the national bird (no joke, he really did). Although he may have changed his mind later, I'll have to look into this, it's been so long since I've seen the story on the national bird I'll have to do a refresher on it. Could you imagine an ugly old turkey being our national bird. What was he thinking?

[Ephraim_Zook]

From a US Seal website. There are some contradictions in here -- primarily because the breast plate eagle faces the left, and the arrows and branch are held in the claws opposite those we are accustomed to seeing. Be that as it may, the breast plate eagle still faces the olive branch.

"Has the Eagle always faced the olive branch?

Yes, since the first die was cast, the eagle has always faced right and has held the olive branch in its right talon.

Presidential flags, seals (and coats of arms) showed the eagle facing left, towards the arrows, until 1945 when President Truman changed a number of items in the presidential flag and seal [Executive Order 9646].One of the changes was to have the eagle face right, towards the olive branch "This new flag faces the eagle toward the staff," Truman explained, "which is looking to the front all the time when you are on the march, and also has him looking at the olive branch for peace, instead of the arrows for war ...” President Truman meant the shift in the eagle's gaze to be seen as symbolic of a nation both on the march and dedicated to peace. It has remained that way ever since.

Contrary to a popular myth, the eagle in the Presidential seal does not flip his gaze during times of war. Although when Truman and Churchill were looking at the new symbol on a train car, Churchill remarked that he thought the eagle's head should be on a swivel. That may be the origin of the myth. In any case, it is incorrect. The arrows and olive branches are always held in the same claws."

[Ed Gallop]

Sorry if I was ambiguous. The one I have is exactly like the one pictured. I know the meaning of the arrows (forgot what the three meant though). I also know the significance of the olive branch, but not in the left talon (usually in right). I couldn't find one in civil war era with the olive branch in it's left tenon with the eagle facing it. This is the only one I saw with the eagle not in a full spread wing position. Like Rob Weaver, I thought this was very interesting. I too heard that if the eagle is facing the olive branch it is a time of peace. This plate is exactly like one found at Gettysburg. I was wondering if it was more than a dress-up ornament. Thought it may have specifically used by a certain Union outfit, such as Zouave, or whatever.

Although I've been interested in the civil war since a civil war course in college (old man now) I'm just not as knowledgeable as some here. I've traveled to trace my great grandfather's unit from NC in 1861 all the way to 5 Forks as well as visited most major battlefields. I may be a lost soul but I did not intend to sound ignorant. Ed.

[Rob Weaver]

It's a standard beltplate, went on every Federal infantryman's cartridgebox crossbelt. Sometimes you see them in museums with the lovely image distorted by the ragged path of a minie ball. Ew.
How the Federal eagle is portrayed in 18th and 19th century American folkart is really an interesting sub-genre of folkart study. There was very little standardization of how the American eagle was portrayed, and a great deal of imagination and creative use of space. You see the eagle with wings spread or couched, facing left and right, hovering defensively over panoply of war, falgs, sunbursts, domestic scenes and bales of cotton. Sometimes he holds a scroll in his mouth : "E Pluribus Unum," "Liberty Forever," "Our Rights and Our Libertys," etc. Remember this was a time long before copyright, so the artist had no intellectual control over the image, or parts of the image. Given information technology at the time, "File sharing" of images was a lot harder. Americans were also patriotic to a level which we today would probably consider rabid, irrational, or at the very least jingoistic, if the word had existed at the time. They were convinced that the American republican form of government was the best in the world, that Europeans as fascinating as they may be, are moral inferiors and that the mission of the Americans is to dominate North America. They parsed the Declaration of Independence like Holy Writ, and believed deeply in the virtue of patriotism. This leads to use of patriotic symbols in all kinds of places we today would consider mildly odd: advertisements, personal belongings, even decorations of private homes.

[toptimlrd]

Americans were also patriotic to a level which we today would probably consider rabid, irrational, or at the very least jingoistic, if the word had existed at the time. They were convinced that the American republican form of government was the best in the world, that Europeans as fascinating as they may be, are moral inferiors and that the mission of the Americans is to dominate North America. They parsed the Declaration of Independence like Holy Writ, and believed deeply in the virtue of patriotism. This leads to use of patriotic symbols in all kinds of places we today would consider mildly odd: advertisements, personal belongings, even decorations of private homes.

Somehow that doesn't seem so bad. I wish we had that sense of unity today.

[Jim Mayo]

I was wondering if it was more than a dress-up ornament. Thought it may have specifically used by a certain Union outfit, such as Zouave, or whatever.

Ed.

The lead filled brass breast plate was standard issue for the cartridge box strap in the Union Army until sometime in 1864 (sorry the date is not exact. I am at work and my Paul Johnson book is at home). In 1864 the cartridge box was changed to remove the lead filled brass cartridge box plate in favor of embossing US in the box flap. At the same time the breast plate was also discontinued.

Period pictures show these plates still being used until the end of the war.

[RJSamp]

The lead filled brass breast plate was standard issue for the cartridge box strap in the Union Army until sometime in 1864 (sorry the date is not exact. I am at work and my Paul Johnson book is at home). In 1864 the cartridge box was changed to remove the lead filled brass cartridge box plate in favor of embossing US in the box flap. At the same time the breast plate was also discontinued.

Period pictures show these plates still being used until the end of the war.

Always wondered.....was their a purpose for these other than looking sharp? Maybe the cartridge box plate helped keep the cover closed during combat...less spillage?

Or were they simply carrying round extra weight on the march that could have been better served by not having them at all... you want to carry some lead weights around grab another pack or two of cartridges instead?

[Ed Gallop]

Thank you very much. This is exactly what I was looking for. Never too old to absorb new information. Especially when you begin to forget old information. ;-)

Arrows signify the readiness to defend freedom by force. In some situations 3 arrows represents the 3 branches of the Federal government (legislative, executive, judicial) or 3 branches of the military (army, navy, marines) during the civil war, but I also know there are other meanings depending on what the emblem represents. The head pointing to the olive branch likely signifies a preference for peace rather than during war or peace times because there are no dates involved with the emblem, unlike a coin showing an eagle's closed wings when made during world peacetime.

Thanks again... Ed.

[Jim Mayo]

Always wondered.....was their a purpose for these other than looking sharp? Maybe the cartridge box plate helped keep the cover closed during combat...less spillage?

Or were they simply carrying round extra weight on the march that could have been better served by not having them at all... you want to carry some lead weights around grab another pack or two of cartridges instead?


I think they were to look Sharp.

In the pre-war peace time army it didn't cost very much to issue decorative plates which did not have a function. After the war progressed, the armies grew in numbers, and money got tight. Somebody got smart and eliminated the requirement to save money.

The inner flap of the cartridge box keeps the cartridges from falling out.

[Rob Weaver]

Somehow that doesn't seem so bad. I wish we had that sense of unity today.
Certainly not a bad thing when kept in healthy perspective.
The cartidge crossbelt plate is probably a descendant of the match case that grenadiers wore in the late 17th and early 18th centuries. By the 19th c., though, it's just ornamental. The cartridge box plate did at one time help to keep the box flap closed, if not shut. A lot of earlier boxes had a little catch under the flap which didn't close very well. A weighted plate helped to keep it closed, and from curling up when it got good and wet. Obviously, a US box of CW vintage doesn't need this, with the button closure, so it has become largely ornamental. As has been noted, in an effort to reduce cost, it was eliminated in favor of an embossed pattern in 1864. Curious how strikingly similar that pattern is to that which was stamped on shoulder and waistbelt military holsters until the military stopped using leather in the early 1990s.

[Lee Ragan]

The round eagle plate was made as a buckle on the NCO sword baldric. I always thought the privates & corporals (who would not be wearing a baldric ), wore the same design on their cartridge box straps in the same relative position as the NCO eagle, for the sake of uniformity. Every enlisted man in the company would have the round eagle breast plate in the same position no matter if he wore an NCO sword baldric or a cartridge box on a strap. And as an added bonus, it would give the enlisted guys something else to shine for inspections.
Sounds like something an officer sitting on a uniform board would dream up.