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Levi Battery
01-22-2007, 01:07 PM
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The other day I was having a conversation with my daughter and mentioned that our SCV Camp was having its monthly meeting. She does not understand in her words “why grown men belong to such a brotherhood”. I first told her that we don’t use alters nor do we have animal or human sacrifices to appease the Gods.

She was joking when she said it, buy joking aside.

It got me to thinking, the truth and shame of this type of mine frame is that there are lots of people who truly have this concept of ours and other veteran organizations and about America as a whole. I love my daughter very much and in time I hope to bring her the knowledge of what the Sons of Confederate Veterans or any veteran group stand for and for the meaning of history and how it is to be accurately portrayed.

People think like this because there is a vast lack of understanding and a failure of us as parents, history buffs and even some of our school systems to teach us and our children the truth. In some cases they simply use the revisionist version history. It is these foundations or should I say lack of, which our children grow up with. With these misunderstanding’s of American history, or for that fact, world history, they venture into a world saturated with TV, radio and other medias which spout “Yellow Journalism” that is the un –truth or only truth as they see it. We as parents, members of the SCV and Americans have a momentous task before us. It’s more than just keeping the history and truth about the Confederate Veteran and our relative’s alive.

The lack of knowledge such as this not only takes away from your Confederate heritage but more importantly, it undermines the “Constitution of the United States” and tears away from the “Bill of Rights”. Just look at the first four amendments. I mean, if you just read them, their pretty simple and are not hard to understand. Then comes the liberal elite and the so called highly educated. You know, those folks who know what’s best for us dumb hicks. They have to intrepid and re-intrepid those precious documents. Let’s face it, our forefathers wrote them so that the simple farmer, blacksmith, lumberjack, trader, everyday man or yes, even us dumb hicks could understand them. The signers of the Declaration of Independence knew what they were writing. All of our cherished and beloved articles and documents by which this nation was conceived, were written so that any person with “common sense” (no book pun intended) could understand them

This United States did many things to bring us back together after the Civil War. In many cases during the Spanish-American and Philippine Wars, former Confederate offices were out in command of United States Army units. Today some try to tear us apart by attacking out cherished symbols and flags. They want us to be ashamed of our heritage and not proud as we should be.

People who express their ignorance in their unfounded opinions, whether it be about the Confederate solder, the Confederate Flag (s) or any portion of American history are the reason we are becoming such a diverse society. We have allowed this politically correct way of thinking and culture to separate and segregate us from each other. We were always a “melting pot”. You should be proud of you heritage and always remember, no matter you nationality, you are an American first and foremost. It’s time we get back to the basics that this country was founded on.

Deo Vindice,

John R. Tucker Sr.
Judge Advocate
Buffalo Guards Camp-1975
Buffalo, New York

Malingerer
01-22-2007, 02:54 PM
John,
A couple of points: 1. God is not going to vindicate the 'cause'. It was a crappy cause supported by a lot of good and decent people - not the first or last time that has happened in history. 2. Speaking of historical revisionism, we Southerners have been doing more than are fair share of that for the last hundred and fifty years - first it was all about protecting the sacred institution of slavery, now its a heroic stand against the tyranny of big government. 3. The 'truth'? - You really don't want the truth -not the entire truth anyway - what you want is the mythology of the noble, ragged confederate soldier defending home and hearth against the tyrannical hoards of yankees. You certainly don't want the massacres at fort pillow and saltville or the murder of scores of Black prisoners at Millikins Bend or Olustee. 4. Those 'sacred symbols' you mentioned I saw as a young boy growing up in Mississippi used as a rallying point by segregationists and I personaly dont remember any SCV members standing up and saying "hey, you guys really shouldn't be coopting our symbols for your nasty little racist movement." Reason being - the SCV supported segregation. 5. My own great-grandfather served in the 3rd Miss. Inf and was wounded at Peachtree Creek - I'm proud to be his descendant and I feel his service more likely a commitment to his neighbors rather than a commitment to slavery, but - and this is a very large caveat - he was fighting on behalf of a bad cause. I'll celebrate and honor the Confederate soldier but not the Confederate cause.
Best regards,
Peter Julius,
Bryson City,NC

Levi Battery
01-22-2007, 03:17 PM
1. God is not going to vindicate the 'cause'. It was a crappy cause supported by a lot of good and decent people - not the first or last time that has happened in history.

I could not agree with you more on that point

2. Speaking of historical revisionism, we Southerners have been doing more than are fair share of that for the last hundred and fifty years - first it was all about protecting the sacred institution of slavery, now its a heroic stand against the tyranny of big government.

Yep both sides just as gulity but it is our obligation to set the record straight so to speak.


3. The 'truth'? - You really don't want the truth -not the entire truth anyway - what you want is the mythology of the noble, ragged confederate soldier defending home and hearth against the tyrannical hoards of yankees. You certainly don't want the massacres at fort pillow and saltville or the murder of scores of Black prisoners at Millikins Bend or Olustee.

You are wrong here. I want this type of truth told. Whether it be good, whether it be bad. The truth is the truth. We may not like it but so be it.

4. Those 'sacred symbols' you mentioned I saw as a young boy growing up in Mississippi used as a rallying point by segregationists and I personaly dont remember any SCV members standing up and saying "hey, you guys really shouldn't be coopting our symbols for your nasty little racist movement." Reason being - the SCV supported segregation.

I was nto a mamber of the SCV when what you are reporting being done was done. I can tell you that I would be and am in the forefront if an issue such as ne-confederates, nazis or KKK members for for that fact anyone using any Confederate or American flag unjustly. Its not the symbol or the flag but the person behind it and what they are standing for.

5. My own great-grandfather served in the 3rd Miss. Inf and was wounded at Peachtree Creek - I'm proud to be his descendant and I feel his service more likely a commitment to his neighbors rather than a commitment to slavery, but - and this is a very large caveat - he was fighting on behalf of a bad cause. I'll celebrate and honor the Confederate soldier but not the Confederate cause.

Many of my ancestors fought for both. Most of mine did not own any slaves. Therefore I concure I'll celebrate and honor the Confederate soldier but not the Confederate cause.

John

tompritchett
01-22-2007, 06:10 PM
The lack of knowledge such as this not only takes away from your Confederate heritage but more importantly, it undermines the “Constitution of the United States” and tears away from the “Bill of Rights”. Just look at the first four amendments. I mean, if you just read them, their pretty simple and are not hard to understand. Then comes the liberal elite and the so called highly educated.

From my point of view, it is not just the "liberal elite and so called highly educated" that are threatening to tear down our Constitution, especially when it comes to the Separation of Powers, and destroy our rights under the first 4 Amendents to the Constitution. In fact, one of the "liberal" organizations attacked by the new wave of conservative right-wingers is the ACLU - an organization whose whole purpose is to preserve the rights of all Americans as guaranteed under the Constitution (I personally think that they go overboard on some issues, but I can not fault them on their overall purpose). When one reads the newspapers instead of just relying on the talking heads on most TV network news programs, you will find that there are far more threats to our basic rights under the first 9 Amendments than just gun control and protests regarding the placement of the battleflag. I personally really have to wonder when you have the Attorney General of the United States declare under direct questioning in the Senate that the Constitution does not guarantee its citizens the right of Habeus Corpus even though the 6th Amendment itself guarantees all the rights associated with the concept of Habeus Corpus.

Mothers-Finest
01-24-2007, 10:24 PM
I dont believe in slavery and never will. The confederacy was raised on slaves but correct me if i am wrong that only 5% of the C.S soldeirs owned slaves.Most couldnt afford it. Gen Lee let his go. Yes many of the upper level did. But also do you remember what Sherman did when he had the slaves following him through the March To The Sea. Many photos show union generals using personnal servants. I dont believe the war started on slavery but it did play a major role in it. What really makes me mad is the African Americans try to bann the Battle Flag but yet they are ok with Georgias flag. Its copied of the Stars and Bars. Of course many dont read history and dont even know that. I hate that America was built on slaves but thats my history and I am not ashamed. Yes its wrong but will I deny my heritage? Also what really gets me is that the African Americans think they were the only being mistreated. What about the immigrants? Like the Irish. You ask me and I believe they had it the worst. Slaves were worth more than an Irish man. I believe that everybody has the right to stand up for what they believe in. Thats what this country is really all about. The Civil War was bad but neccessary. It was a bad time but I am still proud to stand up and say I am an American and southern at heart. Ypu cant take whats really inside you. But just think what it would be like to seperate yourself from your own nation. Guts and Glory. Just goes to show you what the men back the were really made of.

bizzilizzit
01-25-2007, 12:34 PM
I dont believe in slavery and never will. The confederacy was raised on slaves but correct me if i am wrong that only 5% of the C.S soldeirs owned slaves.

Let's not forget that the North had their share of slaves at the start of this country. Morristown, NJ abolished slavery in the early 1840's.
Elizabeth

Malingerer
01-25-2007, 01:18 PM
OK. Let's be clear on this: We are all aware that the Yankees were as guilty of condoning and supporting slavery and racism as Southerners. The 'Ya'll were just as bad as us' argument has been done to death. We get it. The important difference is, Southerners were willing to destroy the first moderrn republican democracy in order to protect the institution of slavery - they said so themselves - and Yankees weren't. We were like a bunch of spoiled children playing a game whose outcome they didn't like so we flipped the board over, threw the playing pieces accross the room and stomped off. Not exactly behavior I take pride in.

Peter Julius,
Bryson City, NC

Pete K
01-25-2007, 03:12 PM
The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 1848 took AWAY the equality of the African -American man which was part of the rights of citizens so long held by the Quaker founders. A-A men over 21 who met the same voting requirements as caucasian men were treated (legally/ politically) as equals pre-1848. If I'm not mistaken there were A-A militia units in Allegheny County in the 1850's, African-American troops /white officers.

Rob Weaver
01-26-2007, 07:34 AM
What really makes me mad is the African Americans try to bann the Battle Flag but yet they are ok with Georgias flag. Its copied of the Stars and Bars. Of course many dont read history and dont even know that.
I had a conversation with an African-American from SC on this very point once, and I asked him why the one flag was less offensive than the other. His logic was that the "battle flag" has been loaded with segregationist/racist overtones during the Jim Crow period, while the "1st Confederte flag" or some derivation, was not. It actually speaks to honoring history in a better way. This is also my feeling as well.

tompritchett
01-26-2007, 10:15 AM
I had a conversation with an African-American from SC on this very point once, and I asked him why the one flag was less offensive than the other. His logic was that the "battle flag" has been loaded with segregationist/racist overtones during the Jim Crow period, while the "1st Confederte flag" or some derivation, was not.

Thank you. I have also been trying to make that point in multiple posts in this conference. It is nice to hear it, even though second-hand, from one is an actual offendee. Again thanks.